Nintendo Switch Discussion

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Sephiroth81
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Re: Nintendo Switch Discussion

Post by Sephiroth81 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:27 am

pratty wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:32 am


I suggested games like Splatoon 2, Xenoblade 2, Xenoblade 2: Torna (effectively a brand new game), Mario & Rabbids, Mario Tennis Aces, Fire Emblem Warriors, Donkey Kong Country Returns, Captain Toad, Octopath Traveller, Kirby, Arms, the upcoming Mario Party, and he just said he doesn't like RPGs, doesn't like muliplayer games, doesn't like sports games, doesn't like Pokemon, doesn't like 2D platformers, and for some reason isn't interested in ports of games he's not even played before. The only games he owns and rates are Mario, Zelda and Mario Kart, he does seem interested in a new Starfox and Smash as I say, but in the meantime his own narrow minded-ness is souring his experience with the Switch, and he goes around telling other people not to buy a Switch because it has no games. :roll:
The Wii U ports aren't unwelcome, but its a bit annoying they're full price. Mario Kart 8 is great, but it was a bit annoying paying full whack for it (again), just for the 720p>1080p and 59fps>60fps upgrade and ability to play it on the go. Nintendo should be re-releasing these ports for £20, but thats just me living in fantasy land. I'm definitely not buying Captain Toad again! Nintendo has people under their spell when it comes to these things, and I'm one of them to an extent.

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Re: Nintendo Switch Discussion

Post by pratty » Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:32 am

Sephiroth81 wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:27 am
pratty wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:32 am


I suggested games like Splatoon 2, Xenoblade 2, Xenoblade 2: Torna (effectively a brand new game), Mario & Rabbids, Mario Tennis Aces, Fire Emblem Warriors, Donkey Kong Country Returns, Captain Toad, Octopath Traveller, Kirby, Arms, the upcoming Mario Party, and he just said he doesn't like RPGs, doesn't like muliplayer games, doesn't like sports games, doesn't like Pokemon, doesn't like 2D platformers, and for some reason isn't interested in ports of games he's not even played before. The only games he owns and rates are Mario, Zelda and Mario Kart, he does seem interested in a new Starfox and Smash as I say, but in the meantime his own narrow minded-ness is souring his experience with the Switch, and he goes around telling other people not to buy a Switch because it has no games. :roll:
The Wii U ports aren't unwelcome, but its a bit annoying they're full price. Mario Kart 8 is great, but it was a bit annoying paying full whack for it (again), just for the 720p>1080p and 59fps>60fps upgrade and ability to play it on the go. Nintendo should be re-releasing these ports for £20, but thats just me living in fantasy land. I'm definitely not buying Captain Toad again! Nintendo has people under their spell when it comes to these things, and I'm one of them to an extent.
Then don't buy them again if they're not worth it. If you do then you are telling Nintendo you value the games at the price they are charging.

I think it is in their interest to lower the prices to encourage those of us who already bought them to double dip, but a) if we're still prepared to pay full price, why should they? And b) not every Switch owner bought these games on the Wii U. The person at work I mentioned never had a Wii U. Let's say he does like 2D platformers, and let's say DK Tropical Freeze was a brand new Switch game, he wouldn't complain it was full price, it is platforming gold after. And yet as he hasn't played it so it might as well be a new Switch game.

The game probably will be £20 at some point, probably as part of the "Selects" range. It's the same price layering strategy many businesses employ, you start as high as some people will pay, and then as sales slow down you work your way down in price.
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Re: Nintendo Switch Discussion

Post by Sephiroth81 » Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:34 pm

pratty wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:32 am

Then don't buy them again if they're not worth it. If you do then you are telling Nintendo you value the games at the price they are charging.

I think it is in their interest to lower the prices to encourage those of us who already bought them to double dip, but a) if we're still prepared to pay full price, why should they? And b) not every Switch owner bought these games on the Wii U. The person at work I mentioned never had a Wii U. Let's say he does like 2D platformers, and let's say DK Tropical Freeze was a brand new Switch game, he wouldn't complain it was full price, it is platforming gold after. And yet as he hasn't played it so it might as well be a new Switch game.

The game probably will be £20 at some point, probably as part of the "Selects" range. It's the same price layering strategy many businesses employ, you start as high as some people will pay, and then as sales slow down you work your way down in price.
I know Nintendo doesn't need/have to. Most people didn't own a Wii U....but I don't think the porting effort is worthy of full price. But I get that Nintendo are a business and make a fortune from doing this. I've only done it for Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, i'm unlikely to do it again (unless they fall in price, or I can pick them up used for significantly less).

Even if you didn't buy these Wii U games originally, just being aware they are fairly straightforward ports does take some of that value/shine away. Its nice they often get a bit of resolution upscaling (when docked at least), but full price for games from a 6 year old failed system seems a bit much on a brand new system. But like I said, they can get away with it, so why wouldn't they?

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Re: Nintendo Switch Discussion

Post by pratty » Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:01 pm

Sephiroth81 wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:34 pm
pratty wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:32 am

Then don't buy them again if they're not worth it. If you do then you are telling Nintendo you value the games at the price they are charging.

I think it is in their interest to lower the prices to encourage those of us who already bought them to double dip, but a) if we're still prepared to pay full price, why should they? And b) not every Switch owner bought these games on the Wii U. The person at work I mentioned never had a Wii U. Let's say he does like 2D platformers, and let's say DK Tropical Freeze was a brand new Switch game, he wouldn't complain it was full price, it is platforming gold after. And yet as he hasn't played it so it might as well be a new Switch game.

The game probably will be £20 at some point, probably as part of the "Selects" range. It's the same price layering strategy many businesses employ, you start as high as some people will pay, and then as sales slow down you work your way down in price.
I know Nintendo doesn't need/have to. Most people didn't own a Wii U....but I don't think the porting effort is worthy of full price. But I get that Nintendo are a business and make a fortune from doing this. I've only done it for Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, i'm unlikely to do it again (unless they fall in price, or I can pick them up used for significantly less).

Even if you didn't buy these Wii U games originally, just being aware they are fairly straightforward ports does take some of that value/shine away. Its nice they often get a bit of resolution upscaling (when docked at least), but full price for games from a 6 year old failed system seems a bit much on a brand new system. But like I said, they can get away with it, so why wouldn't they?
That's what I don't get about some retro gamers though, you'd expect them of all people would be of the mindset that an old game they haven't played before is a new game, and the age of a game doesn't matter. They say they really value old games, then say they shouldn't cost as much as the supposedly inferior modern games.

I don't think all games should be £50, but it's the market brings the price down, or indeed up, it's not as much time, but suply and demand. People will say a port doesn't take as much effort but when in a game's life can we say the development has been paid for?
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Re: Nintendo Switch Discussion

Post by Sephiroth81 » Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:58 am

pratty wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:01 pm

That's what I don't get about some retro gamers though, you'd expect them of all people would be of the mindset that an old game they haven't played before is a new game, and the age of a game doesn't matter. They say they really value old games, then say they shouldn't cost as much as the supposedly inferior modern games.

I don't think all games should be £50, but it's the market brings the price down, or indeed up, it's not as much time, but suply and demand. People will say a port doesn't take as much effort but when in a game's life can we say the development has been paid for?
You can't tell exactly, but you can tell when a software company is taking the censored. Capcom were the masters at it with the Street Fighter 2 series, although at least with "Turbo", "Super" etc they were somewhat of an upgrade....plus cartridges were hugely expensive to manufacture.

I don't blame them for doing it (yea, its a total supply and demand thing), and if it keeps them in business then great, as losing Nintendo would be a tragedy (although I couldn't see that occurring if they offered these ports at a budget rate....or mid-budget, and providing some sort of heavily discounted digital download for Wii U customers, similar to what they were at least willing to do for Virtual Console games between Wii and Wii U).

I just think that these Wii U ports at full price shouldn't be something to celebrate given how little dev work has occurred, and I speak as a life-long Nintendo fanboy, so don't feel guilty for criticising this practice! :D

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Re: Nintendo Switch Discussion

Post by ALK » Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:13 pm

On the plus side at least, there won't be many more Wii U ports they can do to fill a release gap pretty soon. Probably Mario Maker (Unless they go full on sequel.), the HD Zeldas, Paper Mario Color Splash, Wonderful 101, and maybe Tokyo Mirage Sessions (Which could do with the second chance) and then hopefully, it'll either be mostly new-er titles or HD versions of stuff that could do with HD upgrade like from the Gamecube/Wii era or heck, even some 3DS games like the Zelda and Starfox 64 remakes.
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Re: Nintendo Switch Discussion

Post by Matt_B » Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:33 am

Sephiroth81 wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:58 am
You can't tell exactly, but you can tell when a software company is taking the censored. Capcom were the masters at it with the Street Fighter 2 series, although at least with "Turbo", "Super" etc they were somewhat of an upgrade....plus cartridges were hugely expensive to manufacture.
Yeah, cartridges do cost rather a lot to make. Remind me what media the Switch uses again? :D
I don't blame them for doing it (yea, its a total supply and demand thing), and if it keeps them in business then great, as losing Nintendo would be a tragedy (although I couldn't see that occurring if they offered these ports at a budget rate....or mid-budget, and providing some sort of heavily discounted digital download for Wii U customers, similar to what they were at least willing to do for Virtual Console games between Wii and Wii U).

I just think that these Wii U ports at full price shouldn't be something to celebrate given how little dev work has occurred, and I speak as a life-long Nintendo fanboy, so don't feel guilty for criticising this practice! :D
Would you be equally critical of, say, Rockstar for not releasing the PS4 and XB1 versions of GTA V for £20, seeing as they was just ports of an existing game? Nintendo certainly aren't the only publisher who does this.

Personally, I'll just judge my buying decisions on what a game is worth to me. The likes of BotW and MK8 get a pass at full price, because I know I'll play them a lot and really enjoy the experience. Captain Toad doesn't though, because it's just not got the replay value; if there was a sequel with all new levels - and they could probably make one with considerably less effort than it took to port the game in the first place - I'd buy it like a shot though.

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Re: Nintendo Switch Discussion

Post by Sephiroth81 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:25 am

Matt_B wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:33 am
Sephiroth81 wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:58 am
You can't tell exactly, but you can tell when a software company is taking the censored. Capcom were the masters at it with the Street Fighter 2 series, although at least with "Turbo", "Super" etc they were somewhat of an upgrade....plus cartridges were hugely expensive to manufacture.
Yeah, cartridges do cost rather a lot to make. Remind me what media the Switch uses again? :D
Care to remind me what a 24Mbit SNES ROM cartridge cost to manufacture in 1993, compared with a couple of gig Switch card?? :D I don't know the answer for sure, to be honest, but I'm willing to bet it cost an awful lot more back then.
Matt_B wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:33 am

Would you be equally critical of, say, Rockstar for not releasing the PS4 and XB1 versions of GTA V for £20, seeing as they was just ports of an existing game? Nintendo certainly aren't the only publisher who does this.

Personally, I'll just judge my buying decisions on what a game is worth to me. The likes of BotW and MK8 get a pass at full price, because I know I'll play them a lot and really enjoy the experience. Captain Toad doesn't though, because it's just not got the replay value; if there was a sequel with all new levels - and they could probably make one with considerably less effort than it took to port the game in the first place - I'd buy it like a shot though.
Slightly critical of Rockstar, yea - although the vastly more stable framerate, draw distance increase, first person mode, better online mode and jump in visual quality would make it somewhat more palatable than what Nintendo have done. I'm getting an Xbox One X soon, and would buy GTA 5 again now, because it has come down to about £20 and has those significant improvements. At full price upon its "re-release", no.

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Re: Nintendo Switch Discussion

Post by RetroBob » Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:24 am

pratty wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:23 pm
Yoku's Island Express is down to a tenner on the e-shop. Worth a purchase?
If you like Metrodvania games yes, if you don't then no. I bought this not knowing it was a MV style game, started off and really enjoyed the look and feel of this game, the pinging around the environment but then the need to back track and know exactly where to go came in and I don't have time to hunt around, so I deleted it and started on the next one, Shantae, which is amazing.
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Re: Nintendo Switch Discussion

Post by Matt_B » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:21 am

Sephiroth81 wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:25 am
Care to remind me what a 24Mbit SNES ROM cartridge cost to manufacture in 1993, compared with a couple of gig Switch card?? :D I don't know the answer for sure, to be honest, but I'm willing to bet it cost an awful lot more back then.
Yeah, it cost a lot more to make a larger SNES cartridge, but then again you'd be bearing that and paying US$20 over the price of a typical game for the privilege of owning one. The profit margins for the publisher would remain much the same.

Meanwhile, Captain toad is about $20 less than a typical Switch game, and I'm pretty sure that all of that isn't from being able to use a smaller cartridge than average. Sure, it's still a bit more than you'd like but it hardly seems like egregious price gouging for a good game that many might have missed out on.

As for the prices of Switch cartridges generally, from what people have said I'd think that they're probably roughly in the region of $10, depending upon capacity and the number ordered. That's easy enough to absorb for full priced games, although we've seen that publishers are still loathe to go for the 32GB cartridges rather than have mandatory downloads, but it does make margins tight at lower price points. There are very few games getting released below $30 and they're usually indie games that cost about $10 less on other formats, so that's almost certainly down to the costs of the cartridges.
Slightly critical of Rockstar, yea - although the vastly more stable framerate, draw distance increase, first person mode, better online mode and jump in visual quality would make it somewhat more palatable than what Nintendo have done. I'm getting an Xbox One X soon, and would buy GTA 5 again now, because it has come down to about £20 and has those significant improvements. At full price upon its "re-release", no.
Meh. The point is that nobody would have expected them to re-release the game at a lower price, because the cost of porting it over has practically no relation at all to what people will be prepared to pay for it.

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Re: Nintendo Switch Discussion

Post by The Laird » Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:22 am

The GTA V argument is a really poor and very misguided one when you not only factor in the massive improvements to the actual game but also the huge amount of DLC they have released completely for free off the back of it.

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Re: Nintendo Switch Discussion

Post by Matt_B » Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:46 am

The Laird wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:22 am
The GTA V argument is a really poor and very misguided one when you not only factor in the massive improvements to the actual game but also the huge amount of DLC they have released completely for free off the back of it.
Well, sure, but it's a deliberately extreme example to counter the argument that re-releases should automatically be cheap. You might additionally point out that it was only a year old and probably the most expensive game ever made, although they'd already covered its costs by the time the later console ports came out.

At the opposite end of the scale you might consider Majora's Mask on the 3DS, which was fifteen years old at the time, or even Cave Story on the same system which was originally a free game. Both were eagerly snapped up at full price by many, because they're genuine evergreen classics. Is Captain Toad in that league? Probably not, but it's still pretty good fun in my book and worth a look for those who missed it first time around.

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Re: Nintendo Switch Discussion

Post by pratty » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:46 pm

RetroBob wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:24 am
pratty wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:23 pm
Yoku's Island Express is down to a tenner on the e-shop. Worth a purchase?
If you like Metrodvania games yes, if you don't then no. I bought this not knowing it was a MV style game, started off and really enjoyed the look and feel of this game, the pinging around the environment but then the need to back track and know exactly where to go came in and I don't have time to hunt around, so I deleted it and started on the next one, Shantae, which is amazing.
Thanks. I like Metroid games so I may still enjoy it, it is a game I've had my eye on for a while. Io may read/watch some more revviews to help make up my mind.
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Re: Nintendo Switch Discussion

Post by pratty » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:25 pm

Sephiroth81 wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:58 am
I just think that these Wii U ports at full price shouldn't be something to celebrate given how little dev work has occurred, and I speak as a life-long Nintendo fanboy, so don't feel guilty for criticising this practice! :D
But haven't ports had more dev work than the game not ported?

Lets say a dev makes a game and sells it at full RRP as is the general standard, no problem. They made 500,000 copies to sell, but as demand is high and they make another 500,000 discs, should they be discounted, or even free, because there's zero extra dev cost? Isn't a port essentially another batch, though one with extra dev costs? I suspect you'd say it depends on how much time has passed between batches, but then isn't the reason games generally get cheaper over time down to market forces, rather than some devaluation of it's dev costs?

And when a game is released on multiple systems at once, why are they called "multiplats", instead of ports? It's time again. Isn't one version a 'port' of another. Should a PS4 multiplat be cheaper because it was a 'port', or more expensive because it was the 'original'?
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Re: Nintendo Switch Discussion

Post by Sephiroth81 » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:43 pm

pratty wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:25 pm
Sephiroth81 wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:58 am
I just think that these Wii U ports at full price shouldn't be something to celebrate given how little dev work has occurred, and I speak as a life-long Nintendo fanboy, so don't feel guilty for criticising this practice! :D
But haven't ports had more dev work than the game not ported?

Lets say a dev makes a game and sells it at full RRP as is the general standard, no problem. They made 500,000 copies to sell, but as demand is high and they make another 500,000 discs, should they be discounted, or even free, because there's zero extra dev cost? Isn't a port essentially another batch, though one with extra dev costs? I suspect you'd say it depends on how much time has passed between batches, but then isn't the reason games generally get cheaper over time down to market forces, rather than some devaluation of it's dev costs?

And when a game is released on multiple systems at once, why are they called "multiplats", instead of ports? It's time again. Isn't one version a 'port' of another. Should a PS4 multiplat be cheaper because it was a 'port', or more expensive because it was the 'original'?
I think some valid points/comparisons are being raised by others here - Majoras Mask on 3DS was indeed worthy of being closer to full price. Same with GTA V, and even stuff like Street Fighter 2 Turbo. These ALL have things in common that the Wii U ports largely don't. Genuine improvements. The Wii U ports are just lazy, and slapped on at full price. A slightly upscaled game (when docked) doesn't justify a re-release at full price.....its barely a remaster (unlike Majoras Mask). Some of those aforementioned games did of course become available on future systems (largely) untouched, and they had a budget price to reflect that. A slightly more similar comparison is that games like Mario Galaxy, and other Wii games were budget price when re-released on the Wii U. Now I totally get that there is literally no porting required at all in those instances, but are we to really expect to pay over double for an old port upscaled?!

So its frustrating more than anything, as Nintendo are capable of enhancing their older games. These Wii U ports are at the disappointing end of this remastering scale. You're basically paying full price for last gen games (as the Wii U is essentially 360/PS3) standard, and often years old. Some are happy to lap these things up, hence why Ninty get away with it, and knock yourself brother, thats your choice. I just happen to think its a bit of a racket!

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