Paris under attack

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RodimusPrime
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by RodimusPrime » Sat Nov 14, 2015 11:34 am

TBH, I tend not to get involved in issues like this. its an awful thing thats happened and it looks like its going to get worse. I have no idea how to even begin to fix the overall situation and I feel the whole situation is a lot more complex than some people realise. I doubt there is an easy answer.

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Sephiroth81
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by Sephiroth81 » Sat Nov 14, 2015 12:17 pm

aztecca wrote: So when are you off around beans/rodimusprimes house with your bag of rocks. :wink:
You seem so confident your house won't be targeted by me! :P

I'm a pacifist though, I wouldn't do that to anyone :D
RodimusPrime wrote:He has vegetarian arms. would be lucky to throw a pebble more than a couple of inches.
I do have vegetarian arms - like a Gorilla. Except less hairy. Therefore I am able to stand back quite a distance for my launch, and you'll never know! :P

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shiftytigger
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by shiftytigger » Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:09 pm

Simply horrible. Whoesoever is responsible fails in the simple act of being human. May their god,no matter which one,smite them with their massive floating smitey hand.

The world has d1cks all around it - they need to grow up and get laid.
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Megamixer
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by Megamixer » Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:09 pm

Sel Feena wrote:Terrible. And still to come will be governments cynically using this to push privacy-infringing powers.
Personally I don't care too much about this if it helps track and stop potential terrorist acts. After all, there's nothing interesting about my internet usage or phone calls - I have nothing to hide. These murderers are becoming increasingly advanced with their communication methods and those trying to stop them must keep pace. Groups like IS do not play by any rules or morals that we think up for example.

It's surely no coincidence that these attacks were unleashed shortly after the news that IS had lost some ground in Iraq thanks to Kurds fighting with the aid of Coalition airstrikes + the death of 'Jihadi John' thanks to a US drone. Some bloke on TV was saying that as they lose ground, they will activate dormant cells in other countries and use these types of attacks to try and get the governments to pull out of Syria/Iraq. I tend to see the logic in this.

Those involved won't pull out though because it is of course bowing to terrorism and giving them what they want. Their powerbase in Iraq/Syria needs severely crippling or wiping out altogether and there's only so many of these types of evil attacks before somebody decides to go in. How to deal with the online propganda though? That's much tougher...

In related news, I just read that the US have killed Libya's IS leader in an airstrike.
Retro is a state of mind, and cares not for your puny concepts like dates and calendars.

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silvergunner
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by silvergunner » Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:28 pm

Megamixer wrote:
Sel Feena wrote:Terrible. And still to come will be governments cynically using this to push privacy-infringing powers.
Personally I don't care too much about this if it helps track and stop potential terrorist acts. After all, there's nothing interesting about my internet usage or phone calls - I have nothing to hide. These murderers are becoming increasingly advanced with their communication methods and those trying to stop them must keep pace. Groups like IS do not play by any rules or morals that we think up for example.

It's surely no coincidence that these attacks were unleashed shortly after the news that IS had lost some ground in Iraq thanks to Kurds fighting with the aid of Coalition airstrikes + the death of 'Jihadi John' thanks to a US drone. Some bloke on TV was saying that as they lose ground, they will activate dormant cells in other countries and use these types of attacks to try and get the governments to pull out of Syria/Iraq. I tend to see the logic in this.

Those involved won't pull out though because it is of course bowing to terrorism and giving them what they want. Their powerbase in Iraq/Syria needs severely crippling or wiping out altogether and there's only so many of these types of evil attacks before somebody decides to go in. How to deal with the online propganda though? That's much tougher...

In related news, I just read that the US have killed Libya's IS leader in an airstrike.
Me to, I have no problem about my data being requested. I mean I could not give two hoots if someone knows I look at porn :lol:

Nothing nasty mind.

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Negative Creep
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by Negative Creep » Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:30 pm

Being reported that at least one of the killers came in via Greece last month. I hope ms merkel is really proud of the situation she's helped create
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HalcyonDaze00
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by HalcyonDaze00 » Sat Nov 14, 2015 1:46 pm

Negative Creep wrote:Being reported that at least one of the killers came in via Greece last month. I hope ms merkel is really proud of the situation she's helped create
probably one of the "refugees", those fit young men seen hurdling over fences and sprinting away from trucks and lorries, hundreds of foot soldiers now bunkered down across Europe, completely anonymous and ready to strike. Only a matter of time before we see something in this country.

they are barbarians, complete savages about 500 years behind the rest of the civilised world, you will hear the handwringers and apologists talking about foreign policy and how Europe has brought these attacks upon itself, it's nonsense of course. You only have to look at the utter savagery they commit in their own countries - mass graves filled with women and children, young girls burnt alive for "witchcraft", beheadings, people lined up and machine gunned down, the list of carnage goes on and on.

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Sephiroth81
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by Sephiroth81 » Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:32 pm

HalcyonDaze00 wrote: probably one of the "refugees", those fit young men seen hurdling over fences and sprinting away from trucks and lorries, hundreds of foot soldiers now bunkered down across Europe, completely anonymous and ready to strike. Only a matter of time before we see something in this country.
.
Why? Do refugees all have to be old, frail or overweight? What do you profile these refugees to look like or SHOULD look like in your eyes - maybe more of them were men who were slim (which you refer to as "fit", but they are probably just not UK obese which is hardly surprising from basically any other culture)? Its clear from the footage that there are many women and children, and elderly people making this dangerous voyage - but no surprise that its probably a journey more suited to the younger and fitter.....or else they'll end up drowning, starving or getting killed. So it should clearly be no surprise we see many young men taking on this trip, sometimes and often on behalf of their families who may be back home in Syria which IS a warzone, or at a camp.

I don't really understand the point, just sounds like a soundbite that you hear from Britain First brigade.
silvergunner wrote:
Me to, I have no problem about my data being requested. I mean I could not give two hoots if someone knows I look at porn :lol:

Nothing nasty mind.
This MIGHT be fine had we not had clear breaches of misuse and frankly abuse of data being shared from agencies to the media. Which is why we had the Leveson Inquiry.

It would appear that those wanting to do harm to others (from organised groups) can fairly easily avoid or bypass the kind of snooping they are proposing, so I have my doubts of just how useful it is. I understand the "nothing to hide, nothing to worry about" argument, but at the same time how much do you trust your own government and security agencies? Its not so straightforward.
Last edited by Sephiroth81 on Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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gman72
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by gman72 » Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:34 pm

I'm confused I thought we hated the French, now everyone on FB is loving them (for a week or so). Are we letting the horror of terrorism spoil our inherent racism?
“To gain your own voice, you have to forget about having it heard.” —Allen Ginsberg, WD

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RodimusPrime
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by RodimusPrime » Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:35 pm

Sephiroth81 wrote:
HalcyonDaze00 wrote: probably one of the "refugees", those fit young men seen hurdling over fences and sprinting away from trucks and lorries, hundreds of foot soldiers now bunkered down across Europe, completely anonymous and ready to strike. Only a matter of time before we see something in this country.
.
Why? Do refugees all have to be old, frail or overweight? What do you profile these refugees to look like or SHOULD look like in your eyes - maybe more of them were men who were slim (which you refer to as "fit", but they are probably just not UK obese which is hardly surprising from basically any other culture)? Its clear from the footage that there are many women and children, and elderly people making this dangerous voyage - but no surprise that its probably a journey more suited to the younger and fitter.....or else they'll end up drowning, starving or getting killed. So it should clearly be no surprise we see many young men taking on this trip, sometimes and often on behalf of their families who may be back home in Syria which IS a warzone, or at a camp.

I don't really understand the point, just sounds like a soundbite that you hear from Britain First brigade.

He has made one really good point though, how many of these terrorists have gotten to where they want to be by mingling with refugees. it is plausible. Not saying all of them are but 1-2 out of every few hundred is certainly feasible.

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Megamixer
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by Megamixer » Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:42 pm

If I were ISIS then I'd send people in to infiltrate the refugee floods. The targets they choose and propaganda they use clearly show that they have some brains in the organisation so there's no way they would have missed the oppurtunity. Plus:
Negative Creep wrote:Being reported that at least one of the killers came in via Greece last month.
Still would say the bad un's are a 1% minority though (or less). I wouldn't go so far as to label all refugees with suspicion.
Retro is a state of mind, and cares not for your puny concepts like dates and calendars.

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Sephiroth81
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by Sephiroth81 » Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:45 pm

RodimusPrime wrote:

He has made one really good point though, how many of these terrorists have gotten to where they want to be by mingling with refugees. it is plausible. Not saying all of them are but 1-2 out of every few hundred is certainly feasible.
You tell me - how many of these terrorists have come through via this method?

I would imagine that those that have entered countries like the UK (which are very few that have actually come here), would be more highly "snooped" upon just as we know how security agencies are profiling people. You and I will be under far less scrutiny than any immigrants will be from the government "spooks".
Megamixer wrote:
Still would say the bad un's are a 1% minority though (or less). I wouldn't go so far as to label all refugees with suspicion.
Exactly. Most are fleeing a country for all the reasons why we all would as well. There are always bad people in any large group, this is just a fact of life.

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RodimusPrime
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by RodimusPrime » Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:50 pm

Sephiroth81 wrote:
RodimusPrime wrote:

He has made one really good point though, how many of these terrorists have gotten to where they want to be by mingling with refugees. it is plausible. Not saying all of them are but 1-2 out of every few hundred is certainly feasible.
You tell me - how many of these terrorists have come through via this method?

I would imagine that those that have entered countries like the UK (which are very few that have actually come here), would be more highly "snooped" upon just as we know how security agencies are profiling people. You and I will be under far less scrutiny than any immigrants will be from the government "spooks".
Megamixer wrote:
Still would say the bad un's are a 1% minority though (or less). I wouldn't go so far as to label all refugees with suspicion.
Exactly. Most are fleeing a country for all the reasons why we all would as well. There are always bad people in any large group, this is just a fact of life.

I said its feasible.

are you telling me you don't think there is any possibility of this happening at all.

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aztecca
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by aztecca » Sat Nov 14, 2015 2:58 pm

Sephiroth81 wrote:
aztecca wrote: So when are you off around beans/rodimusprimes house with your bag of rocks. :wink:
You seem so confident your house won't be targeted by me! :P
You would struggle to get near my house I have a long driveway made of offal and the road is lined with halal butchers cutting the necks of chickens and lambs.
SH1T HAPPENS :wink:

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Sephiroth81
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by Sephiroth81 » Sat Nov 14, 2015 3:02 pm

RodimusPrime wrote:

I said its feasible.

are you telling me you don't think there is any possibility of this happening at all.
Nope that isn't what I am saying, as anything is feasible, and many people can be radicalised wherever they are, and build a resentment up against a government/religion/group. I think some of the background life stories of many of these islamic terrorists have been quite remarkable in how varied they are.

Like I said earlier in the thread, there is no easy solution to this. I think Russia will probably face more threats since it started bombing Syria (lets not forget more people died in that than in Paris and "Charlie Hebdo" offices combined), and whether that is a price worth paying (along with the collateral damage by its "precision" bombing) we shall only see in the long run.

I think its probably not helpful having the mainstream media crow about the killing of "Jihadi John" et al. Its clearly inspiring more people to join and more people to carry on the fight. I'm an idealist though, and wish the world would compromise, not seek revenge, and just accept differences. I don't think the West have been good at that in history or now, and clearly ISIL/Daesh are a new example of another enemy we have also not willing to compromise.
aztecca wrote: You would struggle to get near my house I have a long driveway made of offal and the road is lined with halal butchers cutting the necks of chickens and lambs.
This would represent a true fortress against the likes of me.

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