More woe for nintendo

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Matt_B
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Re: More woe for nintendo

Post by Matt_B » Thu May 22, 2014 5:52 am

I think you could perhaps add Fire Emblem: Awakening and maybe Project X Zone to that list, but Tropical Freeze was released this year.

Either way, we're looking at a dozen hit games - including a couple of re-makes ad a very cheap spinoff - from the entirety of Nintendo EAD and their wholly owned subsidiaries for the year. That's spread pretty thinly just to cover their currently successful franchises, let alone bring old ones back or create new games.

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Re: More woe for nintendo

Post by RetroBob » Thu May 22, 2014 6:47 am

gman72 wrote:Well obviously thats a matter of opinion, I enjoyed Luigis Mansion and its good that you bring that up as an example. There has been talk of Ninty bringing back old franchises... isnt this exactly what they have done here with Luigis Mansion? :D
Yeah but it has to be exactly what each individual wants don't forget!
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Re: More woe for nintendo

Post by pratty » Thu May 22, 2014 8:02 am

Matt_B wrote:I think you could perhaps add Fire Emblem: Awakening and maybe Project X Zone to that list, but Tropical Freeze was released this year.
Ah so it was, for some reason I thought it came out just before Christmas.

Point is I think Nintendo can go toe to toe with anyone for quanity of quality, whether those games appeal to the mass market is another thing.
greenberet79 wrote:I say this as a Gamecube fan and owner since day one, but Luigi's Mansion is pretty overrated. I couldn't believe they made a sequel.
I awould agree that Luigi's Mansion isn't necessarily a classic, but it's a fairly unique IP with a solid 8/10 average review score. And when you compare it's 3.6 million sales to F-Zero GX's 0.65 and F-Zero X's 1.1 million sales, we can see why Nintendo might make a Luigi's Mansion sequel more of a priority.

I would actually suggest that Nintendo are infact doing a fair amount of fan service as it is by making games like Pikmin 3 and Luigi's Mansion 2, consideraing that those games weren't exactly blockbusters.
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Re: More woe for nintendo

Post by gman72 » Thu May 22, 2014 8:09 am

RetroBob wrote:
gman72 wrote:Well obviously thats a matter of opinion, I enjoyed Luigis Mansion and its good that you bring that up as an example. There has been talk of Ninty bringing back old franchises... isnt this exactly what they have done here with Luigis Mansion? :D
Yeah but it has to be exactly what each individual wants don't forget!
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Matt_B
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Re: More woe for nintendo

Post by Matt_B » Thu May 22, 2014 8:11 am

pratty wrote:I would actually suggest that Nintendo are infact doing a fair amount of fan service as it is by making games like Pikmin 3 and Luigi's Mansion 2, consideraing that those games weren't exactly blockbusters.
That's the problem in a nutshell. They can only make so many games a year and they've got a heck of a lot of old series stuck away in the freezer. Whichever ones they do bring back you can be pretty sure that there'll be more "meh" than "yeah!" from the fans.

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Re: More woe for nintendo

Post by Fightersmegamix » Thu May 22, 2014 8:48 am

Nintendo make nowhere near enough games. They are twice the size of EA, have two formats to support and manage about 12 games a year, including stuff like wii-u party. They have more than enough resources to make many more games but choose not to. As for the likes of pikmin and luigi's mansion being fan service this is la la land talk. People expect a variety of games on any console and as nintendo have alienated almost every third party developer the responsibility to diversify catalogues lies with them.

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Re: More woe for nintendo

Post by outdated_gamer » Thu May 22, 2014 9:17 am

...plus the games are spread across the 3DS and Wii U. Why was Luigi's Mansion 2 made for 3DS instead of the Wii U? The predecessor was a home console title, not a handheld one. :wink:

I think if someone's a older Nintendo player, he's more likely to just get a 3DS for his "Nintendo fix" rather than investing in a Wii U. Sure, the games may not be quite of the same caliber, but you can pretty much get a solid substitute for each Nintendo's "big" console game. Plus arguably the superior (top-down) Zelda game. :wink:

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Re: More woe for nintendo

Post by pratty » Thu May 22, 2014 9:34 am

Fightersmegamix wrote:Nintendo make nowhere near enough games. They are twice the size of EA, have two formats to support and manage about 12 games a year, including stuff like wii-u party. They have more than enough resources to make many more games but choose not to. As for the likes of pikmin and luigi's mansion being fan service this is la la land talk. People expect a variety of games on any console and as nintendo have alienated almost every third party developer the responsibility to diversify catalogues lies with them.
How is Nintendo making follow ups to past games, that weren't even relatively top sellers, not fan service, other than the fact they're not necessarily the games you'd like to see personally? I'd rather they make those games than yearly updates of big sellers like Mario Kart and Pokemon.

How is Luigi's Mansion not providing variety to the 3DS library, what other ghost-busting games are there for the 3Ds, or the Wii-u, even or the DS or the Wii for that matter? Is Pikmin 3 not a significantly different game to Mario, Mario Kart, Nintendoland, Donkey Kong, etc? I genuinely don't see how these games aren't adding variety.
outdated_gamer wrote:...plus the games are spread across the 3DS and Wii U.
I said the very same thing myself. You said they didn't make half a dozen or so great games a year like Rare supposedly did, I suggested that they do. This is why I don't think it's fair to say Nintendo are lazy because to expect half a dozen great games for each system, aren't we then asking Nintendo to essentually double their workload, as if that's something so easily done? Again it depends what we mean by great, for me if we talking 6 games worth buying a year for each system, then I think Nintendo pretty much doing that already.
outdated_gamer wrote:Why was Luigi's Mansion 2 made for 3DS instead of the Wii U? The predecessor was a home console title, not a handheld one.
Because maybe people would just be complaining about the 3DS' lack of games instead. Why not put it on a handheld? Maybe it looks great in 3D, maybe they had specific gameplay in mind to use the 3Ds' features. Maybe they thought people would be more inclined to buy a handheld in order to play follow ups to console games. Why not give handheld gamers an experience they've not had before?
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Re: More woe for nintendo

Post by Matt_B » Thu May 22, 2014 9:38 am

Fightersmegamix wrote:Nintendo make nowhere near enough games. They are twice the size of EA, have two formats to support and manage about 12 games a year, including stuff like wii-u party. They have more than enough resources to make many more games but choose not to. As for the likes of pikmin and luigi's mansion being fan service this is la la land talk. People expect a variety of games on any console and as nintendo have alienated almost every third party developer the responsibility to diversify catalogues lies with them.
Speaking of EA, how many games do you think they released last year? I make it just 12 that actually got stand-alone boxed releases: SimCity, Battlefield 4, Crysis 3, Dead Space 3, Fuse, Army of Two, NFS: Rivals, FIFA, Tiger Woods, NBA Live, NHL and Madden/NCAA Football.

Considering that half of those are just annual re-treads, they don't seem to be that much more productive than Nintendo. Rather, like everyone else, they're feeling the pinch from the ludicrous amounts of time, money and effort that has to go into making a modern game.

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Re: More woe for nintendo

Post by outdated_gamer » Thu May 22, 2014 11:12 am

Matt_B wrote:
Fightersmegamix wrote:Nintendo make nowhere near enough games. They are twice the size of EA, have two formats to support and manage about 12 games a year, including stuff like wii-u party. They have more than enough resources to make many more games but choose not to. As for the likes of pikmin and luigi's mansion being fan service this is la la land talk. People expect a variety of games on any console and as nintendo have alienated almost every third party developer the responsibility to diversify catalogues lies with them.
Speaking of EA, how many games do you think they released last year? I make it just 12
None of which were released on the Wii U... :wink:

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Re: More woe for nintendo

Post by Mootown » Thu May 22, 2014 11:24 am

Just as a discussion point, making the games isn't the only factor - a game needs marketing, publishing, selling in etc. Just from my point of view, these are games I worked on last year, some Nintendo published, some Nintendo first party. I can tell you, it was incredibly busy! I'm not trying to prove a point or even argue anyone isn't correct, it's just to consider in the current debate. There are more than the below, these are the ones I remember.

Animal Crossing: New Leaf
Game & Wario
Fire Emblem - Awakening
Harmoknight
Inazuma Eleven Bomb Blast / Lightning Bolt
Luigi's Mansion 2
Mario and Donkey Kong: Mini's on the move
NES Remix
New Super Luigi U
Pikmin 3
Picross e2
Picross e3
Pokémon Rumble U
Pokemon X/Y
Pokemon Mystery Dungeon - Gates to infintity
Professor Layton and the Azran Legacy
Zelda Link Between Worlds
Zelda Wind Waker
Wii Fit U
Wii Sports Club
Wii Party U
Wii Karaoke U
Art Academy Sketchpad

'Third party' -

Bravely Default
Castlevania: Lords of Shadow MOF
Lego City Undercover
Mario and Sonic 2014 - Dual Format
Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate - Dual Format
Ninja Gaiden 3 Razor's Edge
Resident Evil Revelations - Wii U
Sonic Lost World - dual format
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Re: More woe for nintendo

Post by ToxieDogg » Thu May 22, 2014 11:54 am

Mootown wrote:Harmoknight
Mario and Donkey Kong: Mini's on the move
NES Remix
Picross e2
Picross e3
Wii Sports Club
I know that's only a few but it's amazing how easily people on this forum and others seem to forget that Nintendo are putting a fair amount of download exclusives, good exclusives at that on the E-Shop as well.

If you've got a Wii U or a 3DS, you've got access to a much bigger wealth of games than those just available on shelves.

Harmoknight on 3DS was a brilliant rhythm action game, I sunk a fair few hours into that.

People really need to get their head out of their ass. Nintendo are putting out loads of games as it is. How is it their fault EA have pulled the plug on support anyway? The only things they released on Wii U were a half baked FIFA port of the previous year's version, Mass Effect 3 at a time when they were releasing the entire trilogy on rival consoles for the same price, and a port of Need For Speed Most Wanted, which whilst really good also came months later than the other versions after all the hype had gone, and launched for full price at a time when it could be picked up on PS3/Xbox 360 for £15 or less. And did EA bother to advertise it much even? Why should Nintendo do all the advertising of their games for them? That goes for the other third parties complaining about low Wii U game sales as well.

Nintendo have made a fair few mistakes, but I think some people here believe that they just employ a load of bedroom coders and can knock out 10 games a week :lol:
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Matt_B
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Re: More woe for nintendo

Post by Matt_B » Thu May 22, 2014 12:32 pm

Just to make it clear, I was talking about a dozen hit games last year. That is, ones that got rave reviews and went on to sell in big numbers. Nintendo obviously release more games than that, especially if you count the download-only and third party games, but they're not all going to be system sellers.

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Re: More woe for nintendo

Post by Megamixer » Thu May 22, 2014 12:45 pm

pratty wrote:How is Nintendo making follow ups to past games, that weren't even relatively top sellers, not fan service
Exactly. The fact that they made a new Fire Emblem for the 3DS and even bothered to give it an EU release (and a special edition console!) says it all. If there's a better example of money and time being spent on a sequel to a cult series that never traditionally sells very well at all in Europe then I'd like to see it.

Wii-U-wise it's the lack of third party support that is killing the Wii-U. If it were getting the same games as the other machines in addition to the unique titles (which I do prefer) then maybe it would be selling better. I can't really remember how the third parties got so turned off in the first place though.
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Re: More woe for nintendo

Post by pratty » Thu May 22, 2014 1:03 pm

outdated_gamer wrote:
Matt_B wrote: Speaking of EA, how many games do you think they released last year? I make it just 12
None of which were released on the Wii U... :wink:
Well that's a obviously a different point. No doubt though the Wii-U has missed the EA's support, especially EA's sports games, won't argue with that.

But in comparing EA's software output to Nintendo's in 2013, Nintendo arguably made the better games.

Here are the metacritic average scores for those 12 retail EA games from 2013:

Fifa 14 - 86
NHS 14 - 82
Battlefeild 4 - 81
NFS Rivals - 77.5
Dead Space 3 - 77
Crysis 3 - 76
Madden 25 (14) - 76
Tiger Wood 14 - 75.5
Army Of Two - 73
NCAA 14 - 71
Sim City - 64
Fuse - 62.5
NBA Live 14 - 43


And here are the average scores for 12 games from Nintendo in 2013 (maybe not even the highest):

Mario 3D World - 93
Fire Emblem Awakening - 92
A Link between Worlds - 91
Windwaker HD - 90
Animal Crossing 3DS - 88
Pokemon X/Y - 87
Pikmin 3 - 87
Luigi's Mansion - 86
DKCR 3D - 83
Mario and Luigi Dream Team- 81
Luigi-U - 77
Wii-U Fit - 72
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