Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

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killbot
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by killbot » Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:01 am

I don't know if I'd describe Wind Waker HD or SM3DW as having 'tanked'. They sold below expectations but still both shifted hundreds of thousands of copies (and presumably will continue to sell well - Nintendo games seem to have a very long shelf-life compared to those of other publishers). If selling more copies than 95% of other new releases is 'tanking' then the industry is in trouble!
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Nemesis
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by Nemesis » Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:32 am

killbot wrote:. If selling more copies than 95% of other new releases is 'tanking' then the industry is in trouble!
??????? Are you really saying that Nintendo are selling more copies than 95% of other new releases?
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killbot
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by killbot » Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:52 am

Nemesis wrote:
killbot wrote:. If selling more copies than 95% of other new releases is 'tanking' then the industry is in trouble!
??????? Are you really saying that Nintendo are selling more copies than 95% of other new releases?
It sold 400,000 copies in its first few weeks on sale in Japan and 215,000 in its first week in the US. Those aren't very high numbers for a Mario game but I think outside of major franchises like GTA and CoD they would be considered respectable for pretty much any game. And yeah... when I say '95% of new releases' I'm talking about all new releases, not just the big-name ones. The vast majority of games come and go leaving nary a ripple. There's probably several hundred games released every week across all formats (including PC and mobile) and most of them are either not very good, are too niche in their appeal or just don't have the marketing spend to make a big splash. Any of the developers of those games would kill for even a fraction of the sales that SM3D has.
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Sephiroth81
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by Sephiroth81 » Sat Jan 25, 2014 6:59 am

killbot wrote:I don't know if I'd describe Wind Waker HD or SM3DW as having 'tanked'. They sold below expectations but still both shifted hundreds of thousands of copies (and presumably will continue to sell well - Nintendo games seem to have a very long shelf-life compared to those of other publishers). If selling more copies than 95% of other new releases is 'tanking' then the industry is in trouble!
I think once the Wii U gets a price slash, its games like those that will be picked up and continue to sell well. Games like those don't rely on annual sequels and updates. Its a bit like Mario Kart Wii - it was almost the first game a new Wii owner would buy back in 2008, as was in the case in 2013. Super Mario 3D World for me will be that game as well, just waiting on Ninty to drop the console price to about £150 or less.

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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by RodimusPrime » Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:12 am

Sephiroth81 wrote:
killbot wrote:I don't know if I'd describe Wind Waker HD or SM3DW as having 'tanked'. They sold below expectations but still both shifted hundreds of thousands of copies (and presumably will continue to sell well - Nintendo games seem to have a very long shelf-life compared to those of other publishers). If selling more copies than 95% of other new releases is 'tanking' then the industry is in trouble!
I think once the Wii U gets a price slash, its games like those that will be picked up and continue to sell well. Games like those don't rely on annual sequels and updates. Its a bit like Mario Kart Wii - it was almost the first game a new Wii owner would buy back in 2008, as was in the case in 2013. Super Mario 3D World for me will be that game as well, just waiting on Ninty to drop the console price to about £150 or less.

Me too, When I pick up a Wii U I will be picking up mario and zelda. So the sales of those games will rise as people buy more consoles. Thats the thing about games like that, they still sell even after being out for a while. PS and Xbox older games do not get picked up by new owners when they buy the machine, Nintendos older games do.

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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by Lost Dragon » Sat Jan 25, 2014 8:33 am

RodimusPrime wrote:
Sephiroth81 wrote:
killbot wrote:I don't know if I'd describe Wind Waker HD or SM3DW as having 'tanked'. They sold below expectations but still both shifted hundreds of thousands of copies (and presumably will continue to sell well - Nintendo games seem to have a very long shelf-life compared to those of other publishers). If selling more copies than 95% of other new releases is 'tanking' then the industry is in trouble!
I think once the Wii U gets a price slash, its games like those that will be picked up and continue to sell well. Games like those don't rely on annual sequels and updates. Its a bit like Mario Kart Wii - it was almost the first game a new Wii owner would buy back in 2008, as was in the case in 2013. Super Mario 3D World for me will be that game as well, just waiting on Ninty to drop the console price to about £150 or less.

Me too, When I pick up a Wii U I will be picking up mario and zelda. So the sales of those games will rise as people buy more consoles. Thats the thing about games like that, they still sell even after being out for a while. PS and Xbox older games do not get picked up by new owners when they buy the machine, Nintendos older games do.
There are exceptions- i recal Sony talking of things like:Singstar and Buzz, which despite never topping charts, continued to sell month after month after month, as people new to the hardware discovered them.

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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by Nemesis » Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:20 am

killbot wrote:
Nemesis wrote:
killbot wrote:. If selling more copies than 95% of other new releases is 'tanking' then the industry is in trouble!
??????? Are you really saying that Nintendo are selling more copies than 95% of other new releases?
It sold 400,000 copies in its first few weeks on sale in Japan and 215,000 in its first week in the US. Those aren't very high numbers for a Mario game but I think outside of major franchises like GTA and CoD they would be considered respectable for pretty much any game. And yeah... when I say '95% of new releases' I'm talking about all new releases, not just the big-name ones. The vast majority of games come and go leaving nary a ripple. There's probably several hundred games released every week across all formats (including PC and mobile) and most of them are either not very good, are too niche in their appeal or just don't have the marketing spend to make a big splash. Any of the developers of those games would kill for even a fraction of the sales that SM3D has.
I think the link below kinda puts the kibosh on your theory.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/44 ... nt-itself/
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by pratty » Sat Jan 25, 2014 11:02 am

I agree that Nintendo could do with reinventing their image somewhat, not some much their their corporate image, but rather the perception of the range of games on it's console. I watched a PS4 ad today and it was all about making the player feel like a race driver or a space marine, living out a macho fantasy. I think Nintendo more need games like that which cater to that aspect of the games market, I don't even think Nintendo need to make those games necessarily, 3rd parties would do. Nintendo are clearly masterful games makers, I just think a lot of gamers would prefer an 8 or 9/10 space marine shooter over a 9 or 10/10 cartoony platformer.

That said I'm dubious about some aspects of the article, it presents a damning graph of home console hardware sales showing a steady decline, by deciding to leave out the "anomaly" Wii, not to mention their handhelds. I obviously can't dispute the Wii-U is struggling, but let's give credit where credit is due, the Wii was a superb rebound, historical evidence that nintendo are capable or turning things around and employing the necessary strategy to do that (expanding the market and offer a unique experience). It get the point about the Wii not adressing this idea of losing the core gamer, and I think the idea of the Wii-U was intended to address that while aiming to retain much of the Wii user base, I just think Nintendo underestimated how difficult that was going to be.

Choosing to ignore Nintendo's successes and what's left is just another doom and gloom article, I don't know how many articles we need pointing out the obvious. Sales and revenue are all well and good but they are relative to expenses, Sony and Microsoft have bought up a lot of market share from Nintendo but paid for it with loses far greater than Nintendo's, where are all the doom and gloom articles about them? For PS4 and XBox One gamers and developers none of that seems to be their concern as they enjoy those consoles at sony and M'soft's expense, yet I wonder if the Wii-U would suddenly look a lot more attractive to play or devlop for if M'soft for example dropped it's loss making console division.
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Lost Dragon
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by Lost Dragon » Sat Jan 25, 2014 11:12 am

Nintendo have had bad times before (Virtual Boy, 64DD/Bulky Drive, SNES Sat.view service, PS2 having a 70% market share leading to Nintendo halting production of GameCube, stores like Argos not featuring it etc, Square jumping ship to Playstation with Final fantasy 7), but i've had to admire the tenacity of the company.''Failure' (and i use the word broadly here) rather than set them back, only seems to drive them further forward, or at the very least has in the past.

But i feel the market place is running at a much faster pace than Nintendo can keep up with.On the 1 hand the proved nay-sayers wrong and 3DS was not killed off by smartphones etc, but arriving late to the 'HD' era with Wii U has proven to be very costly and they seemed caught in the double whammy of being last to HD gaming and last to embrace online gaming in terms of home consoles.

Sony, back in the early days of the Playstation, admitted biggest threat to them was consumer apathy, i.e you or i could decide to spend the £300+ we had of disposable cash on anything other than a Playstation,think Nintendo need to realise this as well, seem to recal GameCube being slashed to as low as $99 when PS2 was just gaining more and more market share, so price cuts alone not going to 'save' Wii U.

The wii U has to (somehow) become a must have device, but as i've said before, i personally have no idea how they could do this, if people i know buying newer consoles just to play higher res.versions of games they can run on existing hardware, my grasp of what drives sales in todays market belongs in the stone age.

Glad to hear the Watch dogs canned rumour was nothing more than a mistake, but sooner or later, the W.I.P titles likes of Ubisoft have for Wii U, will be finished and released, bigger question then will be just what, if anything they start working on for Wii U, be it conversions or original games....

If the 3rd party planned titles slows to a trickle, it's going to put even more pressure on Nintendo to plug that gap with in-house releases, which there does'nt seem to be a huge amount of.

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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by killbot » Sat Jan 25, 2014 11:27 am

Nemesis wrote:I think the link below kinda puts the kibosh on your theory.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/44 ... nt-itself/
Nice of them to point out that their 'look at this downward trend!' graph doesn't include the Wii. Because, y'know, it would be a completely different image if it did.

Look - Nintendo has been adapting and surviving (and growing) as a company for - what, a hundred and thirty years? All on their own terms. Yet because they have a difficult time for eighteen months and one of their products seems to be struggling they should jack the whole lot in? No, as I've said before - now is the time for action, but not the time for a knee-jerk response. They have to do something, but equally it has to be a 'something' that they've properly thought through. Just dropping the Wii U will not fix things overnight, all it will do is enrage the five million people who have spent a lot of money buying one and don't want to see it made obsolete overnight. And right now, the one thing Nintendo don't want to do is make enemies of the people who are still interested in buying their wares. That, arguably, is the mistake Sega made.

If I were Nintendo I would look at a few options:

1. Slash the price of Wii U to try and get sales moving. Until people start buying it in larger numbers, things aren't going to get better.

2. Look at what popular/talented developers might be either for sale or else interested in an exclusivity deal. Try to get as much exclusive content that people might want to play onto their systems as soon as they can.

3. Look at the smartphone market, but be wary of cannibalising sales of their own hardware. Sell some short, simple, fun, polished games based on popular Nintendo franchises and keep ramming home the message that if you had a Wii U or a 3DS you could be playing the real thing. Keep them simple and have a transparent, upfront price. Don't get sucked into using microtransactions or running third-party ads as these are frowned on by a lot of players.

4. Once you've got some games worth buying, make sure you're letting people know. Wii U advertising has been sporadic and inconsistant. Even if you have a great product, people won't buy it if they don't know it exists.

5. If none of that works, look at other options. If Nintendo do decide to stop making their own hardware then perhaps the next best solution is some kind of link-up with another manufacturer. The Sony/Nintendo PlayStation 5? You might scoff, but if it meant getting its hands on Ninty's back-catalogue (and future titles) exclusively for its hardware I imagine Sony might not be so quick to say no.
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by RodimusPrime » Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:49 pm

What a lot of people seem to be forgetting is that the supposed failiures ( Gamecube, N64 ) have only been considered a failure in comparison to other machines on the market at the time.

However even then Nintendo still came out making a profit, They may not have sold many, but unlike other companies ( sony and MS ) they always make sure they are making profits on machines sold.. MS and sony have had to take huge hits in the past and selling consoles at a loss has destroyed other companies in the past.

They also have software sales to help make money, They are actually a true gaming company who make money from games and consoles and that is their sole focus and they are good at it. MS and Sony are big companies and at times the gaming divisions have made huge losses. If MS and Sony were soley gaming companies they would have collapsed by now. So in effect as a gamning company, Nintendo are far better run.

charging for Xbox live gold bailed MS out bigtime, they got lucky with that, because without subscriptions the xbox division would have created massive losses.

So, yeah, nintendo generally know what they are doing,

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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by slacey1070 » Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:26 pm

I thought I read the Wii u is being sold at a loss??
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by Analog » Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:34 pm

Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?
not on the shelves in my local morrisons there isn't, had a look this evening. they don't even stock 3ds. only titles like just dance and older wii titles are being sold alongside playstation and xbox. same at the nearby tesco superstore, no 3ds or wii u games at all.

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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by Matt_B » Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:40 pm

slacey1070 wrote:I thought I read the Wii u is being sold at a loss??
It certainly was at launch:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-20095125

I'm sure that costs have come down since then, although given that the price it's sold at has too, it might still be getting sold at a loss.

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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by Nemesis » Sat Jan 25, 2014 4:14 pm

Oh and if you want to do little social experiments on our forum don't post about them on your own you plum - Darren@Retro Gamer

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