Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

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Misery
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by Misery » Sun Jan 19, 2014 8:01 pm

Nemesis wrote:
sirpigmeat wrote:
Nemesis wrote:Every time somebody tries to explain the Wii U's poor retail performance they always fall back on the "Joe Public doesn't understand what the Wii U is". I'm sorry but that's a load of guff. Joe Public knows exactly what the Wii U is but just isn't that interested in it. Unless you're an ardent Nintendo fan there's not much to draw you to the Wii U that isn't done equally well or better on other formats.
I know lots of people who didn't even know it was out, no matter what it is... I'm not saying they'd all rush out and get one if they did, but it certainly can't help sales... How would "joe public" know "exactly what it is"? Theres been no adverts and these people aren't trawling game sites looking for console release information...

Also the kind of games that nintendo make just aren't represented or very poorly so on other consoles... Wii sales show the public like these sort of games, so i'd think this shows that the wiiU does have some drawing power...
Sorry, but I just don't buy that. How long has the WiiU been out for now? You don't have to be trawling websites to know about the WiiU either. GAME has WiiU demo pods in many of its stores up and down the country and anyone who has the faintest interest in gaming has probably walked into one at some point. If there are currently Wii owners who want to upgrade, wouldn't they be asking the question when will Nintendo release a follow up?

Oh, he's quite right about that. I absolutely guarantee you: Things like displays in stores, no matter how loud and screamy they might be, only reach so many customers.... and you'd be amazed how many DONT see things like this. I say this with alot of experience in having worked for places that JUST sell games, as well as alot of experience with sales and dealing with selling to customers in general. You could have an extremely caffinated clown that you keep in the store, and whenever some new customer comes in, he jumps in their faces and shrieks "Wii UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!!!!!!! LOOK AT IT IT DOES ALL THIS STUFF!!!!!!", and 10 minutes later that customer will still "never have heard of it, what is it?". Never, EVER underestimate the bloody stupidity of your average consumer. Every time you think they hit rock bottom, someone will hand them a nuclear jackhammer, and dooooowwwwwnnnnnnn they go.

But yes, that's been a consistent problem with the Wii U for Nintendo. Even those who supposedly know alot about the consoles in general often fail to know much of anything about it. Even among actual gamers, this can be true. PARTICULARLY it can be true BECAUSE it's Nintendo. There are plenty of gamers out there that now sort of just auto-ignore anything that Nintendo does these days, because "they dont make REAL consoles anymore, just casual/kiddy stuff!". They could be the "hardcore" type, yet still know exactly zip about this machine. Just as with SirPigMeat there, I have friends that fit into this category. Gaming is their core hobby just like it is mine, it's what they spend damn near all of their time on and they have lots of games in general..... but they have them for Microsoft and Sony's devices. Nintendo? Most of them that I know, they know squat about what Nintendo has been up to lately, and they know even less about the Wii U other than that it probably exists.

And even previous Wii owners.... the assumption that they would definitely know about it is also not always the case. Lots of people own a Wii. But only so many regularly USE it enough to be REALLY following what Nintendo does, if there's not a new Zelda or something right around the corner..... provided they even know about that. And some of course were like me: They have/had one, but ended up finding it to be a disappointment, and thus stopped following Nintendo much after that.

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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by kelp7 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:58 am

I'm not sure what the 'disappointment' would be.... other than "oh, it doesn't play all the Sony / MS games".

Anyway, I think articles like this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25805136

are no help at all to the cause of the Wii U. I'm sure a lot of people will read that and simply not buy one on the grounds that "oh it's not selling well, must be rubbish then. No-one else is buying one so i'm not going to".

Also the article alludes to the fact that people just want to play games on mobile devices ("We believe mario on mobile is coming"). Am I the only one that hates games on mobile devices? I just about get by with my 3DS XL. But I want to play games together with my partner and we both want to play games on the big TV, i don't *want* to look at some shitty mobile screen.
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by psj3809 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:09 am

kelp7 wrote:Also the article alludes to the fact that people just want to play games on mobile devices ("We believe mario on mobile is coming"). Am I the only one that hates games on mobile devices? I just about get by with my 3DS XL. But I want to play games together with my partner and we both want to play games on the big TV, i don't *want* to look at some shitty mobile screen.
Ha ha well there is 'quite' a few people who like gaming on some 'shitty' mobile screen ! I enjoyed gaming before on my gameboy, then a Pocket PC and now a few iOS devices. Having so many games with me wherever i am is superb. Console gaming is great, its good to see it so popular but for me i have limited time so i love mobile gaming so i can have a quick go here and there.

I dont want to play games with my missus at all, quite happy for her to have her hobbies and me my own !

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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by kelp7 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:17 am

psj3809 wrote:Ha ha well there is 'quite' a few people who like gaming on some 'shitty' mobile screen ! I enjoyed gaming before on my gameboy, then a Pocket PC and now a few iOS devices. Having so many games with me wherever i am is superb. Console gaming is great, its good to see it so popular but for me i have limited time so i love mobile gaming so i can have a quick go here and there.
Heh, okay, maybe I should adjust what I said a bit. I don't think I'd enjoy Super Mario Galaxy (for instance) on a small mobile screen as much as seeing its glorious visuals on the big screen. I do agree being able to game wherever is a bonus though. I just don't think some sort of mass exodus to mobile gaming from console gaming is realistic or would even be enjoyable (for a gamer like myself). I still believe there's a place for consoles. Unless they make mobile gaming able to connect to the TV as well and upscale the gfx.
psj3809 wrote:I dont want to play games with my missus at all, quite happy for her to have her hobbies and me my own !
Haha, yeah okay, we both share almost all the same hobbies really, gaming, making music and stuff... works for us :)
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by pratty » Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:34 am

So gamers want to play on a small screen? Er, does the Wii-U not have a small screen? Oh they want to play specifically on the go, rather than play in the comfort of their own home, really? I don't buy that for a second. Sure handhelds have been popular for ages but asisde from a quick blast on the bus here and there, most people I know still do the vast majority of their handheld gaming at home, and I think most of them would welcome the option to stream it to their tv, like you can with the Wii-U. Additionally Nintendo took flak for not using a proper controller for the Wii, now these gamers are demanding touch screen only controls? Yeah right.

What people want is to not have to buy multiple devices and consoles that's what the Wii-U is struggling with. Most of them recognise games like Mario and Zelda are pretty good, and wouldn't mind being able to play them, but just not to the extent that they'll buy another console to do so. They prefer games like GTA, Uncharted and Gears Of War etc, and therefore prioritise a console that allows them to play those games, and they make do without Mario etc.

The only reason these people cry out for Nintendo to make a 'proper, hardcore' console or go third party is so they don't have to buy another console. Or a Nintendo handheld for the mobile user. I bet the reason people apparently want Nintendo on mobiles so bad is probably because they know a quick burst of a dumbed down Mario Kart will still be far better than most of the microtransaction riddled flash games they've been grinding at on their commute.

Infact of the subject of microtransactions, I bet a large reason why big devs like EA went cold on the Wii-U was because it wasn't designed with rip off DLC and microtransactions in mind. Which is all the more reason to own a Wii-U in my mind, one of the good things about just owning the Wii last gen was gaming on a console that didn't constantly have it's hand out.
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by HalcyonDaze00 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:28 am

reading the appalling financial news from nintendo, a better question would be is there room for nintendo in the modern market?

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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by outdated_gamer » Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:47 am

pratty wrote:
What people want is to not have to buy multiple devices and consoles that's what the Wii-U is struggling with. Most of them recognise games like Mario and Zelda are pretty good, and wouldn't mind being able to play them, but just not to the extent that they'll buy another console to do so. They prefer games like GTA, Uncharted and Gears Of War etc, and therefore prioritise a console that allows them to play those games, and they make do without Mario etc.
But if people want more realistic-style and/or violent games, why doesn't Nintendo provide them? They have the kid/family friendly aspect well covered but the same can't be said for the previously mentioned. It seems they just count on the 3rd parties to provide them such titles, but the 3rd parties don't see a large market for them. Just from the top of my head what Nintendo could provide:

- Resident Evil 2 Remake; much like the NGC remake only better and with improved control and maybe full 3D environments.

- Shadow of Eternals; this looked really promising. Why not an exclusive title? If not then there's still the Eternal Darkness franchise that they own.

- Fatal Frame; this is a Nintendo-owned franchise. So much potential for the Wii U GamePad.

- Retro-developed new FPS; Retro Studios are composed of people who previously worked on the Turok games on the N64 so why not a new FPS IP? It could be really cool and unique, perhaps repeating the success GoldenEye had.

- Retro-developed new hack n slash; they had it going with Raven Blade for NGC but the project was canned. Maybe a revival of sorts would be due?

- Indiana Jones; why not? A take-on the popular Uncharted franchise but with it's own personality and recognizable license.


Just some ideas that popped in my mind.

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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by Royalewithcheese » Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:54 am

outdated_gamer wrote:
pratty wrote:
What people want is to not have to buy multiple devices and consoles that's what the Wii-U is struggling with. Most of them recognise games like Mario and Zelda are pretty good, and wouldn't mind being able to play them, but just not to the extent that they'll buy another console to do so. They prefer games like GTA, Uncharted and Gears Of War etc, and therefore prioritise a console that allows them to play those games, and they make do without Mario etc.
But if people want more realistic-style and/or violent games, why doesn't Nintendo provide them? They have the kid/family friendly aspect well covered but the same can't be said for the previously mentioned. It seems they just count on the 3rd parties to provide them such titles, but the 3rd parties don't see a large market for them. Just from the top of my head what Nintendo could provide:

- Resident Evil 2 Remake; much like the NGC remake only better and with improved control and maybe full 3D environments.

- Shadow of Eternals; this looked really promising. Why not an exclusive title? If not then there's still the Eternal Darkness franchise that they own.

- Fatal Frame; this is a Nintendo-owned franchise. So much potential for the Wii U GamePad.

- Retro-developed new FPS; Retro Studios are composed of people who previously worked on the Turok games on the N64 so why not a new FPS IP? It could be really cool and unique, perhaps repeating the success GoldenEye had.

- Retro-developed new hack n slash; they had it going with Raven Blade for NGC but the project was canned. Maybe a revival of sorts would be due?

- Indiana Jones; why not? A take-on the popular Uncharted franchise but with it's own personality and recognizable license.


Just some ideas that popped in my mind.
I think it's a great kind of "party game console" but there wasn't enough on the marketing end. I wasn't even aware exactly what it was until a couple of months ago. It's lacking games and what's the point of replacing a current Wii?

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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by outdated_gamer » Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:12 am

Royalewithcheese wrote: I think it's a great kind of "party game console" but there wasn't enough on the marketing end. I wasn't even aware exactly what it was until a couple of months ago. It's lacking games and what's the point of replacing a current Wii?
I though the idea behind the system was "appealing to everyone", not just the "party gamers". :wink:

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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by sirpigmeat » Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:33 am

HalcyonDaze00 wrote:reading the appalling financial news from nintendo, a better question would be is there room for nintendo in the modern market?
To be fair they've only been having trouble in the last couple years... Before that they always turned a profit... Maybe they do need to update, i'm sure they will and i'm sure it will work out fine... Maybe they'll get on well in China, that market could lead to others being pointless...

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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by pratty » Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:37 pm

outdated_gamer wrote:
pratty wrote:
What people want is to not have to buy multiple devices and consoles that's what the Wii-U is struggling with. Most of them recognise games like Mario and Zelda are pretty good, and wouldn't mind being able to play them, but just not to the extent that they'll buy another console to do so. They prefer games like GTA, Uncharted and Gears Of War etc, and therefore prioritise a console that allows them to play those games, and they make do without Mario etc.
But if people want more realistic-style and/or violent games, why doesn't Nintendo provide them? They have the kid/family friendly aspect well covered but the same can't be said for the previously mentioned. It seems they just count on the 3rd parties to provide them such titles, but the 3rd parties don't see a large market for them. Just from the top of my head what Nintendo could provide:

- Resident Evil 2 Remake; much like the NGC remake only better and with improved control and maybe full 3D environments.

- Shadow of Eternals; this looked really promising. Why not an exclusive title? If not then there's still the Eternal Darkness franchise that they own.

- Fatal Frame; this is a Nintendo-owned franchise. So much potential for the Wii U GamePad.

- Retro-developed new FPS; Retro Studios are composed of people who previously worked on the Turok games on the N64 so why not a new FPS IP? It could be really cool and unique, perhaps repeating the success GoldenEye had.

- Retro-developed new hack n slash; they had it going with Raven Blade for NGC but the project was canned. Maybe a revival of sorts would be due?

- Indiana Jones; why not? A take-on the popular Uncharted franchise but with it's own personality and recognizable license.


Just some ideas that popped in my mind.
I like your ideas personally, but it doesn't matter if the Wii-U has another Fatal Frame (Have Nintendo said there wont be another Fatal Frame isn't on it's way?) or Eternal Darkness 2, they still wont be enough to buy a Wii-U for a lot of people.

And if they're buying a Wii-U over a PS4 or Xbox One then they know they won't be getting all the 'mature' Sony and Microsoft exclusives, which means they better at least be getting all the high profile AAA multiplats like your GTAs and Dead Spaces. It's those things the Wii-U badly needs.

It also doesn't help that journalists and retailers perpetuate the oversimplified idea to consumers that consoles like the Wii-U and games like Mario and Zelda are for "casuals" and that consoles like Xbox and games like COD and GTA are for 'proper' gamers.

Yeah Nintendo could make FPS miltary shooters etc, but that's not their thing. People have to realise they are a company of values and principles as much as they are about making money, they're not just simply about the bottom line and violent realsitic games just isn't what they're about as a company. While the money obviously seems to be in one type of game, shouldn't we applaud Nintendo for having the balls to jeopardise their finances to provide the other?

I also love the notion that games can be created by simply thinking about them as if Nintendo have endless resources, e.g. "Why didn't Wii-U launch with a new Zelda?" Er, because they just released one for the Wii, are making one for the 3DS, and the fact that new Zelda games take years in production. People are also demanding to know where Starfox, F-Zero, Wave Race, and other Nintendo IPs are, and Nintendo are supposed to make new surivial horrors and FPSs aswell. Suppose it was Nintendo that made Zombie-U instead of Ubisoft, what difference does it make? These sorts of games can still exist if the third parties make them.

The thing is though, I'm quite happy for Nintendo to come in third, or last if you prefer, so long as they don't go out of business I don't care. I'm not sure why some people think the last place hardware developer should consider hanging it up. Maybe so Sega wont' be all alone? I don't know. :? If the Wii-U was kicking ass and say the PS4 was lagging we'd just be having the same conversation about Sony instead, they can't all win each generation.
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by sirpigmeat » Mon Jan 20, 2014 12:58 pm

pratty wrote: Yeah Nintendo could make FPS miltary shooters etc, but that's not their thing. People have to realise they are a company of values and principles as much as they are about making money, they're not just simply about the bottom line and violent realsitic games just isn't what they're about as a company. While the money obviously seems to be in one type of game, shouldn't we applaud Nintendo for having the balls to jeopardise their finances to provide the other?

The thing is though, I'm quite happy for Nintendo to come in third, or last if you prefer, so long as they don't go out of business I don't care. I'm not sure why some people think the last place hardware developer should consider hanging it up. Maybe so Sega wont' be all alone? I don't know. :? If the Wii-U was kicking ass and say the PS4 was lagging we'd just be having the same conversation about Sony instead, they can't all win each generation.
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by sscott » Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:38 pm

Nothing gets people going like a Wii-U thread!!!

The Wii-U is now been donated to my kids as their machine, the Skylanders games and Wii Dance 2014 plus 3D Mario Land means the machine gets a lot of play by my kids but... They would still far rather play on the old iPad 1 (Have upgraded to the air for me), there are hundreds of games on it for them and as they have grown up on the machine and those controls, they find them very intuitive. Why does the Wii U not have an achievement or trophy system either, many people don't care about these, but many do, seems such a cheap thing overall to implement it seems crackers that they haven't.
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by ToxieDogg » Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:48 pm

Royalewithcheese wrote:what's the point of replacing a current Wii?
The fact that the original Wii is no longer 'current' and is barely having any notable games released for it anymore, beyond a very few things like Skylanders, whereas the Wii U at least now has 2 brand new Mario games, a brand new Sonic, Pikmin 3, Zombi U and others, upcoming Donkey Kong Country Returns, Mario Kart, Super Smash Bros and Xenoblade Chronicles sequels, and a pretty good selection of indie games on the Wii U E-Shop. I'm much more inclined to wonder (for now at least) 'What's the point of replacing an Xbox 360 or PS3 with an XO or PS4, when they haven't launched with any more games than the Wii U did, and both the Xbox 360 and PS3 are still getting plenty of major titles released for them (including most of what's coming out on the XO and PS4 this year) and don't even as yet have as many media features until expected updates arrive further down the line?' and yet so far they've both been successes. :?
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Re: Is there room for the Wii U in this gen?

Post by slacey1070 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 3:18 pm

ToxieDogg wrote:
Royalewithcheese wrote:what's the point of replacing a current Wii?
The fact that the original Wii is no longer 'current' and is barely having any notable games released for it anymore, beyond a very few things like Skylanders, whereas the Wii U at least now has 2 brand new Mario games, a brand new Sonic, Pikmin 3, Zombi U and others, upcoming Donkey Kong Country Returns, Mario Kart, Super Smash Bros and Xenoblade Chronicles sequels, and a pretty good selection of indie games on the Wii U E-Shop. I'm much more inclined to wonder (for now at least) 'What's the point of replacing an Xbox 360 or PS3 with an XO or PS4, when they haven't launched with any more games than the Wii U did, and both the Xbox 360 and PS3 are still getting plenty of major titles released for them (including most of what's coming out on the XO and PS4 this year) and don't even as yet have as many media features until expected updates arrive further down the line?' and yet so far they've both been successes. :?
Agree with that. Upgrading from a Wii to Wii u is much more useful than from a 360 to an xbone or ps3 to ps4.

Id argue the Wii u has more high quality titles than the xbone and ps4 put together. Both of which had appalling launch titles, including forza lite.

Obviously, by late 2014 that will change...
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