HD Remakes/Rehashes

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Darth Martious
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HD Remakes/Rehashes

Post by Darth Martious » Tue Jun 14, 2011 6:48 pm

Retro shovel-ware seems to have been a feature of the last 5+ years or so (probably longer, but my memory isn't that good), but are we now entering a new era of HD Remake/Rehash-ware?

Does remaking a game in HD add value and introduce it to a new audience, or is it the same lazy shovel-ware approach designed to swindle gamers?

Have you bought any HD R/R's? What did you think of them compared to the original?

Are there any games you want to see an HD remake of?

Are there any games you categorically don't want to see a remake of?

Would you recommend any HD R/R over the original?

Is the games industry doing a Hollywood and instead of doing anything creative simply churning out the same old stuff?
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Re: HD Remakes/Rehashes

Post by djcarlos » Wed Jun 15, 2011 4:46 am

The HD remakes of the God Of War sure looked pretty, trophy addition is a nice bonus if you like that sort of thing.

To be honest though, I would rather play my PS2 games on the PS3 but there ya go. Not going to happen now is it?
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Re: HD Remakes/Rehashes

Post by gman72 » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:48 am

You know that's one of my biggest regrets of this gen; that Sony didn't put an emotion engine in PS3, I'm not talking the emulation that came with the early consoles I'm talking about a proper PS2 chip. I'm also not interested in why they didn't (I'm sure they had their reasons) but I just wish that they had, it would have been uber cool and probably would have meant that my PS3 gets used more. Oh, well, maybe their next console will be fully PS2 compatible.
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Re: HD Remakes/Rehashes

Post by Mootown » Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:29 am

Let me tell you - Rez HD improves on the original in every way. Widescreen support, better sound, super smooth, the graphics haven't really been changed, just made to look super nice on a HD screen. Plus online leaderboards and the option to play the original 4:3 SD version if you really want to. That's how to do an HD update.

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Re: HD Remakes/Rehashes

Post by pratty » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:57 am

Darth Martious wrote:Does remaking a game in HD add value and introduce it to a new audience, or is it the same lazy shovel-ware approach designed to swindle gamers?
I think it's a bit of both, maybe leaning a little more to the lazy/swindling side. However remaking the games in HD etc is way of preserving classic games chained to older systems, albeit not always in their original form. :|
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Fightersmegamix
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Re: HD Remakes/Rehashes

Post by Fightersmegamix » Wed Jun 15, 2011 7:59 am

Remaking HD versions of 32 bit games would be a great idea, PS2 games in HD is just lazy.

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Darth Martious
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Re: HD Remakes/Rehashes

Post by Darth Martious » Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:06 am

Fightersmegamix wrote:Remaking HD versions of 32 bit games would be a great idea, PS2 games in HD is just lazy.
Yeah that's sort of my point of view. I have a colleague who's raving on and on about the HD remake of Halo, but I can't see the value in it. I didn't really like the game much in the first place and just to tool the thing in the latest engine and release it as a full priced title seems to me the laziest of cash-ins!
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Re: HD Remakes/Rehashes

Post by Crunchy » Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:24 am

Darth Martious wrote:
Fightersmegamix wrote:Remaking HD versions of 32 bit games would be a great idea, PS2 games in HD is just lazy.
Yeah that's sort of my point of view. I have a colleague who's raving on and on about the HD remake of Halo, but I can't see the value in it. I didn't really like the game much in the first place and just to tool the thing in the latest engine and release it as a full priced title seems to me the laziest of cash-ins!
The fact you didn't really like the game in the first place probably has a lot to do with the reason you can't see any value in it.
For the fans it gives them a chance to play one of their favourite games of all time with better graphics, online and offline two player co-op and Achievements. It also adds multiplayer maps to Halo Reach.

The attraction for Halo fans who started with Halo 3 on the 360 should be obvious.

You are wrong about the game being released as a "full price" title. The retail price in the states is $39.99.

One man's lazy cash-in is just another man's sensible use of old IP.

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Re: HD Remakes/Rehashes

Post by killbot » Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:38 am

Crunchy wrote:
Darth Martious wrote:
Fightersmegamix wrote:Remaking HD versions of 32 bit games would be a great idea, PS2 games in HD is just lazy.
Yeah that's sort of my point of view. I have a colleague who's raving on and on about the HD remake of Halo, but I can't see the value in it. I didn't really like the game much in the first place and just to tool the thing in the latest engine and release it as a full priced title seems to me the laziest of cash-ins!
The fact you didn't really like the game in the first place probably has a lot to do with the reason you can't see any value in it.
For the fans it gives them a chance to play one of their favourite games of all time with better graphics, online and offline two player co-op and Achievements. It also adds multiplayer maps to Halo Reach.

The attraction for 360 fans who started with Halo 3 on the 360 should be obvious.

You are wrong about the game being released as a "full price" title. The retail price in the states is $39.99.

One man's lazy cash-in is just another man's sensible use of old IP.
On the other hand, if MS had incorporated proper backwards compatibility into the 360 then people would be able to buy the original Halo for a couple of pounds and play it happily. It strikes me that this kind of recycling is precisely why backwards compatibility - a big selling point for the PS2 - is being quietly done away with. Few people are going to spend £20 on a downloadable HD version of Game X when the original can still be had from GameStation in a nice box for 99p unless you've removed their console's ability to play the older version.

There are a few games that deserve this kind of treatment (the Monkey Island games are one, although personally I prefer the original art style and Zelda on the 3DS looks like being much more than a simple graphical update and therefore might be worth the asking price) but not many. Generally I wouldn't say it was worth updating or remaking a game until at least a decade after the original so that we can see some real improvement in graphics and interface rather than just a minor tarting up. The worst examples I can recall recently are both by Nintendo, as much as I love them. The Wii version of Pikmin - for the price they were asking it should have had Pikmin 2 on the same disc - and Mario All-Stars were both too expensive for what they were.
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Re: HD Remakes/Rehashes

Post by Crunchy » Wed Jun 15, 2011 9:52 am

killbot wrote:
On the other hand, if MS had incorporated proper backwards compatibility into the 360 then people would be able to buy the original Halo for a couple of pounds and play it happily. It strikes me that this kind of recycling is precisely why backwards compatibility - a big selling point for the PS2 - is being quietly done away with. Few people are going to spend £20 on a downloadable HD version of Game X when the original can still be had from GameStation in a nice box for 99p unless you've removed their console's ability to play the older version.

There are a few games that deserve this kind of treatment (the Monkey Island games are one, although personally I prefer the original art style and Zelda on the 3DS looks like being much more than a simple graphical update and therefore might be worth the asking price) but not many. Generally I wouldn't say it was worth updating or remaking a game until at least a decade after the original so that we can see some real improvement in graphics and interface rather than just a minor tarting up.
It's "worth" remaking a game if it's going to make money, and Halo Anniversary is going to make lots of money. If you're talking about "worth" in an artistic way then that's just a subjective thing. As an example, two player online co-op isn't a minor tart up for some people, for them it's the main event. So are new maps for Reach. These might be insignificant additions to you but lots of Halo fans are going apesh1t over these alone.
Name your favourite all-time game and there's a good chance you'd want it in HD with a few minor extras. Me? There's a good chance I'd think your choice was unbelievably meh. Each to his own. There's no real right or wrong when it comes to what should get a revamp and what shouldn't.

Even if Microsoft added full BC they could still sell Halo HD to a decently sized market just by adding Achievements to it. There's nothing lazy about this particular cash-in. It's been planned for ages. Microsoft know it's a goldmine and they're going to mine it. Expect other classic Xbox games to get the same treatment. The choice to buy or not is always with the customer.

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Darth Martious
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Re: HD Remakes/Rehashes

Post by Darth Martious » Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:02 am

Crunchy wrote:Even if Microsoft added full BC they could still sell Halo HD to a decently sized market just by adding Achievements to it. There's nothing lazy about this particular cash-in. It's been planned for ages. Microsoft know it's a goldmine and they're going to mine it. Expect other classic Xbox games to get the same treatment. The choice to buy or not is always with the customer.
Yep and then in 10 years time they'll remake it in Ultra-HD with the Halo blahblah engine. And again 10 years after that. It's the height of laziness to continually regurgitate the same schlock instead of developing entirely new games.
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Re: HD Remakes/Rehashes

Post by GunstarHero » Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:21 am

The HD remake of Radiant Silvergun obviously has a lot of worth as it was never released in this country and goes for over £100 these days.

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Re: HD Remakes/Rehashes

Post by Crunchy » Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:28 am

Darth Martious wrote:
Crunchy wrote:Even if Microsoft added full BC they could still sell Halo HD to a decently sized market just by adding Achievements to it. There's nothing lazy about this particular cash-in. It's been planned for ages. Microsoft know it's a goldmine and they're going to mine it. Expect other classic Xbox games to get the same treatment. The choice to buy or not is always with the customer.
Yep and then in 10 years time they'll remake it in Ultra-HD with the Halo blahblah engine. And again 10 years after that. It's the height of laziness to continually regurgitate the same schlock instead of developing entirely new games.
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Re: HD Remakes/Rehashes

Post by Crunchy » Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:43 am

Here's something for the community to discuss on the subject of the "heights of laziness" with regards to cash-ins and remakes.

Why is a remake of a classic full retail game complete with better graphics and expanded features that's released at a budget price considered by some to be a bad thing and "the heights of laziness" ...

... but a budget release on, say, the 360 Classics range of a full 360 game is considered a bargain and not the "heights of laziness" at all? Because after all, in this instance we're looking at a game that didn't even wait a decent amount of time before getting a re-release and absolutely nothing in the game has been expanded upon or improved from the original release and there's a good chance the game doesn't even deserve "classic" status and, when you get right down to it, no extra work has been done except maybe new box art.

Why do budget re-releases gather no scorn?

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Re: HD Remakes/Rehashes

Post by FatTrucker » Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:52 am

It depends. If 'The industry' is regurgitating old IP in its original form at the expense of new titles then its perhaps a cause for concern, if they are re-releasing old titles in HD and pretending they are an original new game then its a cause for concern.

If however they are making old IP available using modern engines on modern formats as well as new titles, and they are overtly marketing them as a remake of a classic title then its a pointless debate, since no-one is potentially losing anything.
No-one is obliged to buy them and yet anyone who chooses to or who didn't own or play the originals now gets an opportunity to do so in a contemporary context, with a contemporary engine.....maybe I'm missing something but surely that's a win-win situation with no downsides?....no?.

New games for the people that want them and the availability of old games for people that are interested in them. Backward compatibility is a non starter, its pointless and regressive, if people want to play their old games, don't get rid of your old system. New gen machines by definition don't need to be compatible with old software, what's the point?

Thus far I've seen no evidence that old IP is being remade, reworked or given an HD makeover at the expense of new titles. XBLA, Steam, PSN, and many others are portals that are primarily aimed at releasing games in this kind of format, and its brilliant and as far as I can see there are still one or two new games on the shelves too.

Creativity is never going to be what it was. The games industry has covered far too much ground now for any new game to not contain any generic elements whatsoever, very much as film did before it, and literature before that. Creative options are finite or more specifically entertaining, workable creative options are finite. there's no point in people making 'creative' games just to be different if the games and ideas within are sh*te.
Games are largely in a state now where evolution is king. New ideas are tried within existing formulas, value is added to existing franchises with new areas, maps, abilities and so on and new IP is usually introduced within an existing genre or framework. Very rarely does a genuinely unique, creative and enjoyable title surface nowadays, and it's not because of a lack of talent or solely because the industry has become risk averse, cynical and addicted to cash-ins and franchises.

In short, there has never been so much choice to suit so many different types of gamer with so many different types of income. From old classics, to remakes, to re-releases, to original IP, to DLC and Add-ons. At no point in the past has the market for games been this rich or accessible on a current gen machine. So I don't think the concerns really have any merit, because all the evidence available points to the contrary and that remakes are simply adding to the choice people have not ripping them off.
Certainly I've lost count of the number of times I've been playing an older game and had the thought that 'This would be f**king awesome with modern graphics'.
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