Have any of you heard of Acorn etc.

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Darran@Retro Gamer
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Re:

Post by Darran@Retro Gamer » Sat Jan 14, 2006 6:30 pm

bounty bob wrote:
Why do you think it sold so much and was lives' biggest seller
How much do you think RG used to sell?
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Dudley
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Post by Dudley » Sat Jan 14, 2006 7:37 pm

I'd guess about 35,000 or so judging by price/size etc.
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Post by eggman1973 » Sat Jan 14, 2006 8:50 pm

Wow, I feel really sad that former (maybe current) BBC owners are all up in arms about an issue like this. I have owned, at some stage or another, each of the main three machines, a Sega Master System, NES, 2 MSXs, knew someone who owned a Dragon32, and obviously came across BBC Micros at school. My favourite 8-bit machine was the MSX, but it was almost unheard of in the playground. But it was my favourite.

I'm not heartbroken that there is relatively tiny coverage of the MSX, acknowledgment of its existence and some its better qualities is enough! All I can add to the argument is, that if the BBC was such a 'big' machine in the day, (bigger than the CPC), then why did the biggest software titles almost exclusively get published for the Speccy, the C64 and... yes, the Amstrad!?

I could always hope some of the games I really wanted would get ported to the MSX, but it almost never happened. At least the BBC was popular in school!

I think what I'm trying to say, is just try to get over it man. RG is an excellent magazine, it has already given me so much entertainment in the last two issues, hugely on coverage of games I never played, as much as games I have. Enjoy it for what it is, if you don't enjoy it then don't buy it.
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Randall Flagg
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Re: re:

Post by Randall Flagg » Sat Jan 14, 2006 9:09 pm

LeeT wrote:
Randall Flagg wrote: Thats just complete crap. There were far more BBC and Electron users than there were Amstrad CPC users at my school. To compare BBC/ electron users to Dragon 32 or MSX users is completely ridiculous.
You can't really go on what the main 8-bit computers were, by looking at your school. The BBC was probably the highest priced 8-bit computer in the mid 80's and only the well-off kids tended to have them. The Spectrum was the best selling home computer in the uk, whilst the C64 was in the Guinness Book of Records are being the best selling home computer around the world. The Amstrad CPC had always been regarded as the third biggest seller. I would probably put the BBC (along with the C16/Plus 4) as possibly fourth.
In fact I'm pretty sure that in my year at school bbc owners may have even out numbered C64 owners. I only ever remember two of my mates having one. Yes, the speccy was number one for numbers.
Again you can't realistically look at one school. If so, then at my school loads of people had Speccys, a few had C64's, two had Electrons and one had an Atari. But it would have been different around the country.
I still to this day, only know one person who owned a Dragon 32, likewise with an MSX so to compare the BBC Micro to that is unbelievable.
If you went in most indie games shops in the 80's, most of the'lesser known formats' of games would be relegated to a couple of shelves. This includes the BBC (sad but true).
The BBC and Electron, as well as having great arcade conversions and the cream of other platforms software converted to it had loads of its own games as well. To think of this as an educational machine is just so narrow minded and typically bias.
I already stated that I would like to see an article on the BBC in RG (especially on the games). I've been a member of 'Stairway To Hell' for ages now and have played some great games on the BBC. Due to Acorn's marketing (and it being in every school in the 80's) it was mostly regarded as an educational computer.
What this would appear to basically come down to is that the RG staff were all Speccy / C64 / Amstrad owners and therefore in their opinion no other computer warrants regular coverage.
I'm sure the BBC will be covered in RG but theres no need to think there is some kind of conspiracy against BBC owners (judging from the tone of your posts). Its a bit much to expect regular coverage of a minority machine. Maybe if people who are coding new projects send their stuff into darran, then it will be covered in the scene column?
I'm well aware that you can't quote one school, in fact thats my point. Retrogamer seem to have a very narrow view, Based on I don't know what,m i can only assume their previous / school experiences. You yourself admitted that BBC was probably no.4 computer and I would push this even further that it was joint no.3 in the fact that I knew more people with bbc than amstrad.

I'm well aware that this wasn't the case all over the country but where there's one area there's more.

What this comes down to is thsi is a UK magazine.

The speccy was always most popular in the UK.

Then we've got a problem, We've got C64 which was very popular US side and We've got Amstrad which was very popular in europe.

These computers were very popular in the UK too but so were many others. Magazines cover where the money is (i.e UK, Europe, US), so why cover a popular UK computer that wasn't known anywhere else? Wheres the marketing in that???? Better to cover amstrad and sell copies of your magazine to a europian audience than to limit your fanbase.

Basically this arguement could go on forever, If you owned a BBC then you knew there was a huge BBC movement, If you didn't, you weren't.
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Randall Flagg
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Post by Randall Flagg » Sat Jan 14, 2006 9:18 pm

I didn't upgrade to an amiga until 1989 as there was a good flow of software for the BBC until then, how many other "obscure Unknown" 8 bit platforms had survived until then??

I also had at least two businesses in my area between mid to late 80s that survived on BBC sales / support alone.

BBC / Electron owners don't deserve to be treated like this, we had excellent machines, we had great support and we aren't just gonna be ignored.

Regards :)
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Post by CraigGrannell » Sat Jan 14, 2006 9:38 pm

Dudley wrote:I'd guess about 35,000 or so judging by price/size etc.
As a writer—someone who's on the "other side", so to speak—I find it interesting that someone might take a guess on circulation based on price and page count. In reality, neither thing is really a great indication of how many copies a magazine can shift. For instance, I've worked on a number of titles over the years in the IT/web/Mac/design markets, all of which have been between the £3.99 and £6 price point. The magazines were also all between 100 and 132 pages, and yet the ABCs for them were between 5,000 and 25,000.
I didn't upgrade to an amiga until 1989 as there was a good flow of software for the BBC until then, how many other "obscure Unknown" 8 bit platforms had survived until then??
For those in the know, how late was CU covering the C16 and Plus 4, and how late was TGM covering the MSX? Just curious, because I seem to remember coverage of those platforms happening until the end of the 1980s.
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Post by merman » Sun Jan 15, 2006 4:33 am

Here's my 2 currency units on the subject...

The old Retro Gamer had two big features - one on Acorn machines, another on the Repton series. Now that may not seem like a lot, but the key thing is finding people who can write on a particular subject.

A lot of my early gaming was done on the BBC. I enjoyed titles like Mr Ee, Revs, Repton and The Sentinel. But I don't know enough to sit down and write an article, so I can't help address the balance.

There's no BIAS against the BBC in RG.

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Post by SirClive » Sun Jan 15, 2006 8:44 am

Wow, this is a heated debate!!!

My view is that we have nearly all had contact with a beeb or one of the Acorn family. I quite liked the beeb for its wonderfully simple basic but didn't really care for it as a games machine.

I would say that there should be some coverage in the mag, but the current bias towards the 'big 3' is probably right.

Don't think that helps at all, but there you go :D
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Post by eggman1973 » Sun Jan 15, 2006 8:45 pm

Speaking as someone who never owned an Acorn machine (only came across them at school), I guess I would still be interested in learning more about them, in an RG-stylee of course.

(I was always interested in machines I never owned - I regularly bought CU and ZZap64 despite never owning a C64.)

But as an earlier post quite fairly said - coming up with material worthy of publishing would be the stumbling block. What price a feature on the Oric Atmos (an old favourite), or maybe something about the superb MSX cartridges from Konami?

Too many bloody machines, just not enough pages in the magazine!
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Post by Randall Flagg » Mon Jan 16, 2006 5:32 am

Shrug, I guess this isn't gonna be resolved...

Anyone who owned an acorn computer will demand more coverage.

Anyone who didn't will shrug and ask Why?

never mind. :D
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Post by Darran@Retro Gamer » Mon Jan 16, 2006 5:54 am

Acorn content will be appearing in the mag, but it's down to people to commission ideas to me. I certainly don't want Acorn owners to feel left out, so I will hopefully have this rectified soon. Now let's get back to why the CPC was so much better. ;)
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Post by revgiblet » Mon Jan 16, 2006 6:21 am

The CPC was better than the BBC because it wasn't quite as heavy and didn't sink as fast when you threw it into a river. :D

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Post by CraigGrannell » Mon Jan 16, 2006 7:07 am

Randall Flagg wrote:Anyone who owned an acorn computer will demand more coverage.
Anyone who didn't will shrug and ask Why?
I very much doubt that is the case. Although I'm well versed in a number of retro systems, the C64 is undoubtedly the one that I feel closest to. However, if Retro Gamer became Retro Gamer 64, I'd be bored out of my tiny—part of the joy of reading the magazine is the variety within its pages, and the chance of discovering a gem that you've missed.

I used Beebs at school and one of my friends had one (although he had a seriously irritating habit of playing games in front of me, rather than letting me have a go—what fun!), and someone I know makes VERY interesting use of discarded BBC Micros (the story of which might end up in the mag, so I won't tell it here just yet), but that's about it. I'd be very interested in hearing more about the platform and games, just as I'm interested in hearing about Brazil's gaming scene, despite never living there, or reading about the Neo Geo Pocket, despite never owning one.

Like Darran said, though, it requires writers to come forward and pitch ideas (or for non-writers to suggest ideas that can then be commissioned out to writers). Ultimately, I'll be very surprised if the BBC doesn't feature in future issues, and I suspect the response will be positive all-round.
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Re:

Post by chinnyhill10 » Mon Jan 16, 2006 7:41 am

thr0b wrote:The BBC is an interesting case though, isn't it? Simply because most of us know them as a school computer, it's not really thought of as a games machine. That's not to say it didn't have games - we know it did. But as fewer people ever played them in the first place, there's potentially less scope for interesting articles on them.

Saying that, the reverse could equally be true. But those articles would be best written by people who actually played the games.

And the BBC had the best version of Chuckie Egg.
The vast majority of Acorns sales were in the form of the BBC and the Archimedies. However although they sold in a fair few number the machines never really penetrated the home market. The BBC's share of the games market in the late eightes was so tiny that most publishers ignored the unit. Even the MSX got more of a look in and who owned one of those?

Yes the BBC had Superior Software, but that pretty much summed it up. My poor BBC owning chum had to sit and watch whilst us CPC/C64 and Speccy owners lapped up the latest releases from Ocean etc. All he could boast about was yet another version of Repton. Stroll on.

The Archie was a great range of machines totally hampered by a complete lack of any decent software. I was friends with a bloke who had a load of Archie gear including laptops, desktops, and every peripheral under the sun.

But that sad fact is that Acorn were always irrelevent. They only had a real impact in the educational market but even Amstrad made massive inroads into that market when schools realised what good value a CPC 6128 was for £399 compared to the BBC B and Master (which cost more even without a monitor!!!).

And in terms of games, well forget it! Elite, Repton, Chuckie Egg. Well that's three I suppose.

That said, I'd be interested in a BBC article. Although I hope the coverage of the dull education software will be kept to a minumum. After all, think of the children!

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Post by Randall Flagg » Mon Jan 16, 2006 7:52 am

chinnyhill10 wrote:
thr0b wrote:The BBC is an interesting case though, isn't it? Simply because most of us know them as a school computer, it's not really thought of as a games machine. That's not to say it didn't have games - we know it did. But as fewer people ever played them in the first place, there's potentially less scope for interesting articles on them.

Saying that, the reverse could equally be true. But those articles would be best written by people who actually played the games.

And the BBC had the best version of Chuckie Egg.
The vast majority of Acorns sales were in the form of the BBC and the Archimedies. However although they sold in a fair few number the machines never really penetrated the home market. The BBC's share of the games market in the late eightes was so tiny that most publishers ignored the unit. Even the MSX got more of a look in and who owned one of those?

Yes the BBC had Superior Software, but that pretty much summed it up. My poor BBC owning chum had to sit and watch whilst us CPC/C64 and Speccy owners lapped up the latest releases from Ocean etc. All he could boast about was yet another version of Repton. Stroll on.

The Archie was a great range of machines totally hampered by a complete lack of any decent software. I was friends with a bloke who had a load of Archie gear including laptops, desktops, and every peripheral under the sun.

But that sad fact is that Acorn were always irrelevent. They only had a real impact in the educational market but even Amstrad made massive inroads into that market when schools realised what good value a CPC 6128 was for £399 compared to the BBC B and Master (which cost more even without a monitor!!!).

And in terms of games, well forget it! Elite, Repton, Chuckie Egg. Well that's three I suppose.

That said, I'd be interested in a BBC article. Although I hope the coverage of the dull education software will be kept to a minumum. After all, think of the children!
This is exactly the problem. A post written by someone who had little or no experience with a BBC and who thinks that its software consisted of education titles and only 3 decent games??

Its exactly this kind of bias thats causing ex Acorn computer owners the agro at the moment.

Chinnyhill10 obviously hasn't read all of the posts on this thread, youve just jumped in and spouted complete unfounded unbackupable crap.
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