Issue 67 Feedback

Want to air your opinions on the latest issue of Retro Gamer? Step inside...

Moderators: mknott, NickThorpe, Darran@Retro Gamer, MMohammed, lcarlson

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HalcyonDaze00
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Re: Issue 67 Feedback

Post by HalcyonDaze00 » Sun Aug 09, 2009 4:50 pm

Darran@Retro Gamer wrote:
SirClive wrote:Sims 3 review :?
Thought we had done away with the non-retro/non-retro related reviews.
Since when was that agreed? I stated we wouldn't do any sports games in the future, but don't remember saying anything else.

Anyway I won't be visiting the feedback thread for the forseable future, it's far too depressing. I'm putting all my energy into making the mag as good as I can instead. I'm going to start acting like every other editor. Maybe then you might appreciate the effort we actually put in then. I'm all for constructive feedback as it's a great way of improving the mag, but i don't like to see the feedback thread bogged down with the same old topics, it's just getting incredibly frustrating and pulls away from everyone's enjoyment. There are plenty of threads for stating your disappointment for existing topics so why not use those? If anyone needs to get in contact with me then send an email to my usual address.

See yah!
Put your dummey back in !!

It is a feedback thread, what do you expect ?

If people want to have a moan then so be it, each issue always gets a lot of praise and it's usually pretty balanced between positive and negative (more + than - most of the time). It stands to reason that if somebody doesn't like something they will probably moan each time said feature is in the mag, telling people to fire off to a different thread is pointless and will just make the feedback topic redundant.

You sound like an MP who isn't happy that all people want to talk about is crime, the NHS, Afghanistan and expenses. If you are going to have a feedback topic you cannot start bleating when people have a whinge, maybe you should see if you can edit the North Korea version of Retro Gamer........

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Havantgottaclue
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Re: Issue 67 Feedback

Post by Havantgottaclue » Sun Aug 09, 2009 5:08 pm

But there is such a thing as overkill, and the argument about Let's All Play typifies that. If the criticism had come from a couple of dozen posters posting, say, a couple of times each, then the weight of argument would be with them. However, a more accurate summation of the state of play is that we have about half a dozen posters who've taken it upon themselves to post countless times, getting more and more belligerent when it has been explained to them that they're not going to get their way.

If there's something I don't like about the magazine, then I'll raise it once or twice and then let it go - it's not up to me what goes in and what doesn't. If other people agree then fine, if not, then it's also fine - it's the balance of opinion overall that matters. Quite frankly, the insistence of some posters on hearing their opinions heard time after time after time recently has been a bloody disgrace.
Soon you will have forgotten all things: soon all things will have forgotten you. (Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 7)

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HalcyonDaze00
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Re: Issue 67 Feedback

Post by HalcyonDaze00 » Sun Aug 09, 2009 5:23 pm

Havantgottaclue wrote:But there is such a thing as overkill, and the argument about Let's All Play typifies that. If the criticism had come from a couple of dozen posters posting, say, a couple of times each, then the weight of argument would be with them. However, a more accurate summation of the state of play is that we have about half a dozen posters who've taken it upon themselves to post countless times, getting more and more belligerent when it has been explained to them that they're not going to get their way.

If there's something I don't like about the magazine, then I'll raise it once or twice and then let it go - it's not up to me what goes in and what doesn't. If other people agree then fine, if not, then it's also fine - it's the balance of opinion overall that matters. Quite frankly, the insistence of some posters on hearing their opinions heard time after time after time recently has been a bloody disgrace.
Nonsense,

the feedback thread isn't about people "getting their way" as you put it, it's about people talking about what do or don't like in the latest issue. You can't state that once somebody has complained about Iphone coverage, modern games or LAP more than two or three times they must never mention it again, that is utterly ridiculous.

How about we say people can only praise the cover a maximum of three times, once you have had three covers you really like you must never talk about them again.

If you are going to try and control what people want say about the latest issue then you may as well scrap the thread completely.

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takesages
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Re: Issue 67 Feedback

Post by takesages » Sun Aug 09, 2009 5:31 pm

Although I disagree with Halyc0n's point of view about the LAP and I understand the fact that apparantly this topic is talked about all the time, as someone who is generally new here, I would use the issue feedback thread to voice my opinion of something like the LAP, for better or worse.

That might be wrong, but from the perespective of someone new here, there's no clear definiton of what we're meant to talk about in this thread and what we are not. Better organisation and definition of the feedback forum might help matters. If you know you have contested issues and yet you ask people their opinion of each indivdual magazine, it seems fairly obvious that people are going to use those issues to bring up specific examples of their grievances in every issue.

If the same people keep making the same arguments then surely it's better to just ignore them rather than ignoring the whole thread? If you can't handle criticsm, unfounded or constructive, then the one statement from Halyc0n I can agree with is why bother having a thread in the first place?

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Mr_Staypuft
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Re: Issue 67 Feedback

Post by Mr_Staypuft » Sun Aug 09, 2009 9:30 pm

I realise that Bomberman* & Op Wolf* will be attracting most of the attention,
but if anyone has a bit of feedback on my 2nd Why You Must Play
(even via PM if you want)
that'd be appreciated.

Thanks



*Come on postman!! I want to read these!
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SirClive
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Re: Issue 67 Feedback

Post by SirClive » Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:55 am

Darran@Retro Gamer wrote:
SirClive wrote:Sims 3 review :?
Thought we had done away with the non-retro/non-retro related reviews.
Since when was that agreed? I stated we wouldn't do any sports games in the future, but don't remember saying anything else.

Anyway I won't be visiting the feedback thread for the forseable future, it's far too depressing. I'm putting all my energy into making the mag as good as I can instead. I'm going to start acting like every other editor. Maybe then you might appreciate the effort we actually put in then. I'm all for constructive feedback as it's a great way of improving the mag, but i don't like to see the feedback thread bogged down with the same old topics, it's just getting incredibly frustrating and pulls away from everyone's enjoyment. There are plenty of threads for stating your disappointment for existing topics so why not use those? If anyone needs to get in contact with me then send an email to my usual address.

See yah!

It was discussed at legnth and was mentioned last month after the Tiger Woods review.
Darran@Retro Gamer wrote:
SirClive wrote:The issue looks really good, but I hope you are ready for the backlash Darran...

Tiger Woods 09 reviewed in a retro gaming mag???? And just to wind up even more people it is the iPhone version!!!!!

Other than that it looks like a good issue.
Yeah we reviewed that before the poll went up. Seeing it's on two pages most people apparently don't read, I decided to leave it in. Besides it's bloody fantastic.
But if the way you deal with negative feedback is to run away then I will join you and stop providing it. Particularly as you never respond to emails so it is pointless going down that route!

See yah.
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The Master
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Re: Issue 67 Feedback

Post by The Master » Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:00 am

Anyone fancy a pint?
gleeple doople zwak-zwak snafn olg mmnnnnip

psj3809
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Re: Issue 67 Feedback

Post by psj3809 » Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:08 am

Not my favourite issue but have been spoilt with the last few as I've really enjoyed them. Love the Operation Wolf article, not into the japanese gaming articles but will give this one a try. Happy to get the new issue over the weekend, fair bit for me to read in there so i'll give it all a go in the next few days. Havent played some of the featured games in the mag but look forward to reading about them.

Dont mind the 'Lets all play' at all, last month it made me find the Mickey Mouse game and give that a go. As others have said, every month there will be some articles that appeal to others more. I'm not interested in reading about japanese computers but theres a lot in there which i am interested about, and to be fair i will give that article a try and i 'may' be pleasantly surprised.

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CraigGrannell
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Re: Issue 67 Feedback

Post by CraigGrannell » Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:38 am

LAP as a concept doesn't sit well if you read through the threads here, but people should remember that regular posters here are a tiny, tiny fraction of the overall readership. Personally, I quite enjoyed the feature this month, but then I really like Jack the Nipper and have been trying to sort a making-of on the game for years now (with absolutely nothing to show for it, sadly).

As for feedback, I can see why Darran's down on stuff some of the time. Retro Gamer is criticised more than any other magazine I write for, largely because its remit is so large. Every issue, the team works its arse off to create something great, and, every issue, lots of people dismiss it out of hand (like Simpsons guy: Worst. Issue. Ever.). It's pretty clear from the fact that the mag still exists that such feedback is in the minority, but I doubt many people who post here and who aren't involved in publishing realise how rare feedback is.

I recall one time on a certain high-profile creative mag, I remarked to the editor how I'd received a half-dozen really nice emails about a feature I wrote. She was astonished, because, generally, that didn't happen for any one article. Now, even with the internet being way more popular than it was back then, you'll find most mag web forums are full of people bickering (and even being outright hostile to the magazine), rather than anything constructive.

At its best, this forum doesn't do that. Over the past few years, the feedback threads have, on balance, been quite constructive, and have rather obviously helped steer the course of the magazine. Features have come and gone in part due to reader feedback. However, there is still a tendency for people to bang the same ol' drum, even when there's nothing the magazine can do about it. (If you don't like something in issue 'a', don't expect anything to change much before issue 'a+3 months', because magazines are dealt with way before they hit the stores.)

People had gripes about iPhone and mobile reviews. They're largely gone. People complained about LAP. It's likely to appear only every couple of months, and Darran's already said that if the number of contributors drops, it's also gone. Irrelevant reviews? I suspect we'll always get a few, but they are in the minority, in a section full of games likely to appeal to the typical retro gamer.

As for this particular issue, I'm not quite done with it, but I think there's a good mix of features, and the Op-Wolf one has finally got the 'conversion capers' and coin-op stuff right. Do this with Bubble Bobble and throw in one of those spreads with the pixel graphics, and that'd be a sure-fire winner!
iPhone/iPod/iPad game/app reviews: http://www.iphonetiny.com

psj3809
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Re: Issue 67 Feedback

Post by psj3809 » Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:43 am

Think normally you just hear from the people who arent happy and the 1000's who are dont always say anything.

Retro is a huge area and some months there may be articles which i'm not keen on, other times there will be (and someone else might have the opposite view). I'm not keen on learning about japanese computers but i know some people here who love that sort of thing. Retro is just a huge area so its difficult to please everyone. You cant win, do the same and people say you are stale, try something new and people panic as theres a brand new article in their favourite mag !

At the end of the day if no one cared they would never add criticism/whinge/moan etc, just because everyone likes the mag so much i reckon. As i've said before i'm happy as hell that in 2009 theres a mag out there covering retro stuff and like many others its the only mag i get and love from the last 10-15 years. Difficult to please everyone though and yeah sometimes people should mention much more the bits they do like instead of moaning about the constant few pages they dont.

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takesages
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Re: Issue 67 Feedback

Post by takesages » Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:56 am

See, I'm look forward to reading that article Psj, which pretty much proves your point :]

Positive feedback, especially online, often feels a lot like sucking up. It's also generally far less useful than negative feedback, providing that feedback is constructive. For me, whether or not I like a particular issue has much less to do with 'is this new game getting a review' and 'argggh iphone' and much more to do with what each feature is going to be covering. I'm bound to like a magazine with Little Big Adventure on the cover than I am Super Metroid. just as a four page feature about Japanese consoles might not appeal to you.

I've been reading Retro Gamer for only about six months, and the one thing that left me a little confused was they fact they gave Sonic the Dark Knight a score about 10% ;] Overall though, as a previous reader of Edge, a magazine with a much wider remit, I'd say there's far far more content I enjoy reading in Retro Gamer. Unlike modern magazines actually 'owning' the consoles the games are featured/reviewed for seems less important, so I learn and engage content rather than ignoring it becuase It's on the PS3 and I don't have one of those.

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CraigGrannell
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Re: Issue 67 Feedback

Post by CraigGrannell » Mon Aug 10, 2009 6:21 am

takesages wrote:Positive feedback, especially online, often feels a lot like sucking up. It's also generally far less useful than negative feedback, providing that feedback is constructive.
As someone in the industry, I'd argue that's just not true. Constructive criticism—be it positive or negative—is the important thing in all cases. If you like something, say why. If you don't like something, say why. With that kind of advice, the in-house team can make strategic decisions, rather than sitting there going "Well, lots of people really hated issue XX, and lots of people loved it, but I've no idea why."
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pforson
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Re: Issue 67 Feedback

Post by pforson » Mon Aug 10, 2009 6:28 am

Cheer up Darran. Retro Gamer is the best mag magazine out there and the only mag I have a subscription for. I look forward to it each month and I think you guys do a sterling job. I actually don't mind the reviews section. I don't read any other gaming mag so it keeps me informed of current games that I might be interested in. I don't mind the ipod section either and consider the touch to be a splendid device for modern retrogaming.

However, I have to agree with the sentiments about LAP. I think its a weak feature and I much prefer the more researched and considered approach that the rest of the mag offers.

Ta,
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thevulture
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Re: Issue 67 Feedback

Post by thevulture » Mon Aug 10, 2009 6:59 am

Was`nt going to comment, but, Woah, Hang on here, RG get`s no more/No less criticism than any other magazine out there.You only have to look at other magazine websites to see that RG comes off pretty damn lightly compared to comments left by readers on a good few other sites. No point naming names, but come on here.

By the very nature of putting up a 'Feedback Thread' you have to expect a mix of positive and negative. If your not comfortable with the negative? then why ask for feedback?.

I had the same issues as folks are having on here with another magazine feedback site-you leave positive feedback for month after month,ohhh, what a great chap, then one month you read a few things that are`nt up to the usual high standards, you let the magazine know via the channels THEY have provided and Hello, it`s Burn the unbeliever/editor sticks head into proverbial sandpit. WTF is that all about?.

People paid for the magazine, expressing views, that`s all there is too it.

Hopefully folks would provide constructive criticism, rather than 'It was rubbish' type stuff, but...Hello? this is the internet, you get people saying that about Rival hardware, games etc, with no reason given as to why or how the poster has reached that conclusion. :roll:

Totally agree it is frustrating to see a reply that just says X=Rubbish. It`s a dead end, you`ve nothing to work with there.But, you have to take it on the chin as your always going to get that.

People DO appreciate the hard work the ENTIRE RG team put in, each and every month, you`ve only to look back at the comments left each and every month to see that.

Short of having a group 'Come to jesus' type meeting or group hugs i`m at a loss to say what would help :wink:

At the end of the day, IF the great unwashed, the masses, old joe public etc thought the magazine was going down hill, we`d stop buying it, posting on the forums. Generally, move onto pastures new. As far as i can see? we have`nt.

Seems like a storm in a tea cup, really.

IF it`s effecting the RG team that much? easy answer:REMOVE the thread all together or re-name it Positive feedback only.

People moan about the state of the UK, yet SO few turn out on polling day to do anything to change it, and you are surprised so few non-forum members get in contact to air their views?. Human nature, not to get in touch etc.

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SirClive
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Re: Issue 67 Feedback

Post by SirClive » Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:20 am

I have already suggested this to Darran by email, but if each of the main article types had their own subforum within feedback then the specific feedback could go in there and leave the main issue XX feedback thread for commenting on that magazine. It would stop the thread getting bogged down with the same arguments that the last one got bogged down with, but would still allow for that sentiment to be expressed.
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