9/11

When the other folders just won't do!

Moderators: mknott, NickThorpe, lcarlson, Darran@Retro Gamer, MMohammed

I think that...

...it is possible to burn down 3 steel frame buildings with 2 aeroplanes.
23
68%
...US military patented explosives, such as those evident in the projected dust, were used to demolish the 3 world trade centre buildings.
6
18%
...this isn't something I should be concerned about, no-one I know has been killed, I've never been to Iraq, why should I care? Pass me the joystick let's get back to Desert Strike.
5
15%
 
Total votes: 34

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Emperor Fossil
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Post by Emperor Fossil » Sun Aug 31, 2008 11:27 pm

R. Prime wrote:Just out of curiosity Emperor Fossil, have you studied physics?
Nope, not at a tertiary level, but even a numpty like myself can see that you're not too concerned about sticking to facts.

For example, you state that the twin towers fell "with no resistance, and fall at free fall speed."

Yet anyone can view the videos of the collapse and see rubble and debris from the tower falling at a faster rate the main collapse. And not just debris -- there are videos that clearly show large sections of the outer structure falling faster than the main collapse. Now, you might want to respond with some carefully massaged or misinterpreted data that attempts to suggest otherwise, maybe those readings from the seismic stations, but all it takes is a look at the videos to see that the towers aren't collapsing in freefall.


Also, you state:
The core columns and the steel matrix that makes up the support for the building are effectively as strong as solid block. The weight that fell on them was already supported by those same columns.
Here, you appear to be making no distinction between the force applied by a static weight versus the force applied by a weight that is falling. Even a high school student shouldn't make that kind of error.

And I'm dubious about your rather vague claim that the 'core columns and the steel matrix' are 'effectively as strong as a solid block' even before the impact, let alone after those outer columns have been weakened due to heat and some severed due to impact.

Frankly, I'm having trouble believing that you studied physics in any formal capacity. Did you study physics at university as part of a course in which you were enrolled? If so, did you actually pass? I don't really mean to be rude. I'm just a bit, well ... puzzled.

You know what? These conspiracy theories are contagious. I'm starting to think this thread is a conspiracy intended to waste my time and deepen my frown lines. Is there a camera in this room somewhere?

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AlleyKat
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Post by AlleyKat » Mon Sep 01, 2008 5:19 am

Emperor Fossil wrote: Is there a camera in this room somewhere?
Yip. I laugh at your antics.

Although THAT will definitely get you into trouble.
speed/missile/double/laser/option/?

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Emperor Fossil
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Post by Emperor Fossil » Mon Sep 01, 2008 5:55 am

I think I'll get dressed now.


...and put this ferret back in its cage.

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R. Prime
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Post by R. Prime » Mon Sep 01, 2008 10:32 am

Discussion continued here BTW

http://www.retrogamer.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10839

It gets hairier!

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RetroKingSimon
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Post by RetroKingSimon » Mon Sep 01, 2008 11:40 am

I've only just seen this thread, and my opinion is thus:

Whilst I wouldn't put it past someone (whether the Government or an organisation like the CIA without the Government's knowledge) in the US to at least think about doing something like 9/11 on purpose to give them an excuse to wade into the Middle East with all guns blazing whilst tightening security at home (all in the name of oil, of course), I'm sure it wasn't the case. Those who suggest that the towers couldn't have collapsed just from the planes hitting them obviously don't know the immense temperatures that jet fuel burns at.

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jimbo_too
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Post by jimbo_too » Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:56 pm

R. Prime wrote:
I'm not going to argue any more. Go make me a cup of tea, damn it!
:D Excellent, one down, 16 to go.

Some great propaganda on this site too
Waitagoddamnminute. I didn't say you'd convinced me!

And where's my censored cup of tea? :evil:
Image
Antiriad2097 wrote:Jimbo_too, 11% Troll :lol:

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TMR
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Post by TMR » Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:56 pm

jimbo_too wrote:And where's my censored cup of tea? :evil:
It doesn't exist, it was a conspiracy.

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ToxieDogg
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Post by ToxieDogg » Mon Sep 01, 2008 2:58 pm

TMR wrote:
jimbo_too wrote:And where's my censored cup of tea? :evil:
It doesn't exist, it was a conspiracy.
Or he left it on the table, turned his back, and Santa drank it ;)
Sig pic temporarily removed...The Magnificent 7 will ride again 8)
Lost Dragon wrote:The 1st rule about Feedback is..

You do not give Feedback!

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AlleyKat
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Post by AlleyKat » Mon Sep 01, 2008 3:49 pm

...just prior to being jumped by a gaggle of ravenous, carol singing Gremlins kitted out in scarves, wooly hats, etc.
speed/missile/double/laser/option/?

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R. Prime
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Post by R. Prime » Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:30 am

Frankly, I'm having trouble believing that you studied physics in any formal capacity. Did you study physics at university as part of a course in which you were enrolled? If so, did you actually pass? I don't really mean to be rude. I'm just a bit, well ... puzzled.
Well if you haven't studied it at tertiary level, and the best you can do to refute the law of conservation of momentum is speculate on my level of education, I'd say that isn't much of an argument.
but all it takes is a look at the videos to see that the towers aren't collapsing in freefall.
I said at "freefall speed". A speed equivalent to that of an object at freefall from the same height.
Newton's 3rd law applied in this situation dictates that there must be resistance from the structure, equal to the force applied on it.
Those who suggest that the towers couldn't have collapsed just from the planes hitting them obviously don't know the immense temperatures that jet fuel burns at.
Jet fuel burns at 800° to 1500°F, not hot enough to melt steel (2750°F).
(from the Popular Mechanics website)
Could a fire and prior "quake" (of the plane impact) cause a failure of the entire steel structure. No.
Even it the columns were melted, or weakened to the point of failure by the firea and the impact, which I do not deny is possible, the upper section would have toppled asymmetrically, as the fire and "failure" was asymmetric within the structure.

Watch this, or don't watch it and sling me another insult. :wink:

I'm not trying to be condescending here, I think some of you need to dismiss your superstitions about physics.

To change tack slightly, don't you find it suspicious that not a single person lost their job, was court-marshalled or even disciplined for standing down the air defences, or for any of the security failures on the day? The people responsible for the failures were promoted.

Also just about the possibility of pre-rigging explosives:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvj7Q9LRAJo
An unprecedented 36 hour powerdown on the weekend immediately before. Might be speculation, but food for thought.


I've realised I probably won't shut up about this until I get the last word... :)

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Post by psj3809 » Tue Sep 02, 2008 8:55 am

If anything dodgy happened in air traffic control regarding this plane then i cant believe this person would be able to live with it.

Mass murderers are normally psychos who dont feel emotion, the ATC and other people are 'normal' and if they felt they were part of a huge conspiracy to kill 1000's in these towers i cant believe they could manage to keep it a secret.

Are you seriously saying something dodgy happened in air traffic control and the people were promoted in order to keep them quiet ?

Again let me ask you this. Bin Laden and co say they did 911 and love the fact it caused so many deaths, if the US were behind it and Bin Laden didnt do anything why wouldnt Bin Laden and co go to the media to say how corrupt the US are as they did this to their own people ?

If this happened to any other country, eg the Eiffel Tower collasped because of 'terrorism' the french wouldnt be saying 'its our own government' specially when the terrorists say they were behind it etc.

Years of too many X files and other programs seem to make so many americans/english paranoid and question everythign else (apart from the obvious).

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R. Prime
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Post by R. Prime » Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:15 am

Again let me ask you this. Bin Laden and co say they did 911 and love the fact it caused so many deaths, if the US were behind it and Bin Laden didnt do anything why wouldnt Bin Laden and co go to the media to say how corrupt the US are as they did this to their own people ?
Fair question, but
- I doubt that he is alive.
- Who is going to publish that? Considering the cheery reception you guys have given the idea, do you honestly think that would be given any mainstream media coverage? Gimme a break.

psj3809
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Post by psj3809 » Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:49 am

Are you serious ? Yeah i can understand people thinking the BBC or american news stations wont report it perhaps but Al Jazeera definately would.

Many other stations would, it would be the biggest scoop of all time wouldnt it ? News stations fight over a story which could be bad news for the president in the past (affairs, bad decisions etc), there are lots of news reporters/stations out there who would love that story.

Perhaps Bin Laden isnt alive but he has enough deputies etc. Not one person from Al Quada said 'well it wasnt us, it was your corrupt government'.

The only people thinking it was the US are some people from the US/UK such as yourselves due to reading bits and bobs on the internet.

If you are so into conspiracies why dont you look at your own religion ? Again i find that strange, go to church and accept those 'stories' ? I thought you would have used your knowledge to look into if god is true or not ? Thats the biggest conspiracy ever.

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R. Prime
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Post by R. Prime » Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:37 pm

Are you seriously saying something dodgy happened in air traffic control and the people were promoted in order to keep them quiet ?


I'm saying no one was fired or disciplined, because if they were, under oath and on trial, the spotlight would end up on the actual conspirators.

If I messed up on the job and someone died, you know I would get the sack. Luckily lives don't hang in the balance in my job. Tea is serious business, but not that serious.

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R. Prime
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Post by R. Prime » Tue Sep 02, 2008 1:44 pm

go to church
I don't go to church, and I don't believe in Jesus, sorry. I thought we cleared that up...

If you're keen on all that exposing religion stuff, I recommend you check out "Zeitgeist - The Movie"

:wink:

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