Nintendo shut down Emuparadise.

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Gamer Guy
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Re: Nintendo shut down Emuparadise.

Post by Gamer Guy » Sat Aug 18, 2018 1:07 am

good thing i got wat i needed out of them when i did :p sux tho, love that place...

WaveRacer
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Re: Nintendo shut down Emuparadise.

Post by WaveRacer » Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:48 pm

HdE wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:42 am
WaveRacer wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:03 pm
Nintendo have every right to do this now they are releasing the games gain. Romsites devalue the product.
I think the flipside to this is that a lot of folks are becoming resentful of being asked to pay for the privilege of playing old games they already paid for when they originally released. Plus, it's the same games from a narrow selection each time.

This raises an interesting point as well. I know folks who passed on the NES Mini on the grounds that it 'only' had 30 games preloaded, and of those 30 games, a large number didn't appeal. That in turn has led to some rather disdainful opinions I've heard about the unit.

Folks who have hacked the NES Mini have found they can add HUNDREDS of games to it. Which begs the question: if the scope was there for Nintendo to provide more, why didn't they? Sure, the RRP would have likely gone up, but it would have been worth it to some folks.
But why should they add more.

This is why i say that roms and emulators have devalued the product.They are worth nothing on people eyes because of it. Only 30 games. Thats 30 games that would have cost £1500 at release, would cost a fortune buy the original hardware now, and probably £150+ to buy individually on Virtual console. Add in the hardware itself and 2 controllers, its actually a Bargain.

The idea that the games are worthless because Roms are freely available is rampant and its no wonder Nintendo have taken steps. I do agree however hat they should have sent letters to only remove games that Nintendo are releasing again.

As for paying for the games again, Its a different format. Movie fans have paid for the same movie on VHS, DVD,and Bluray.

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Re: Nintendo shut down Emuparadise.

Post by DPrinny » Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:48 pm

WaveRacer wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:48 pm

The idea that the games are worthless because Roms are freely available is rampant and its no wonder Nintendo have taken steps. I do agree however hat they should have sent letters to only remove games that Nintendo are releasing again.
Anybody that can use Ebay will know this is false
Its just shelf collectors that believe this

The type of person that will take a selfie with the game with the "Ive just had a cattleprod up the arse" look on there face and only really buy to have another slot filled in there empty little lives
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Re: Nintendo shut down Emuparadise.

Post by pratty » Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:44 pm

Thought i'd answer this here:
SpecChum81 wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:09 pm
Where does this leave us?

Where does this leave retro gaming as a whole?

Piracy is of course illegal and should be stamped out.

But for those who collect roms for systems such as the Mega Drive, Spectrum, BBC Acorn and other systems that are at least 25 years old, it is often the best, if not the only way to play these games.

Many of us have our original hardware, but often prefer emulation as it is instant and preserves our disks, cartridges and cassettes.

Yes there are retro collections available to buy, and you can get some retro titles on platforms such as PSN or Xbox Live but only a handful of titles.
Nintendo will make the majority of their titles legally available, are there many that they haven't released in some form? I'm sure the non-Nintendo roms will pop up on alternative sites. Plus gamers can share roms amongst themselves, via email and such.
SpecChum81 wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:09 pm
Morally Nintendo are right, but what do we as the retro gaming community do?

How do we direct people to great retro games that they have either once loved or have yet to discover.
Supporting official re-releases of retro games will help the "retro scene" more than rom emulation. For example buying the Mega Man and SF2 complilations will send the message to Capcom there is a market for this sort of thing, as well as drum up interest in the franchises in general through the marketing and media buzz surrounding these releases, leading to new games in these franchises as well as the ability to play the old games on current hardware. All of which may in turn reduce the demand and price of the original hardware and software.
SpecChum81 wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:09 pm
To say again, piracy is wrong, but to repeat further, where does that leas the retro gamers going forward?
As others have said we will value these games more, we'll play games more thoroughly to get our money's worth out of games we've legally bought, and these games will be talked about and celebrated more. I remember when Super Metroid was released for the Wii U e-shop, while the release was perhaps strategically held back by Nintendo, when it came out suddenly there was a lot of interest in the game and franchise in general. People were playing it at the same time, making videos on youtube and talking about it on forums.
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HdE
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Re: Nintendo shut down Emuparadise.

Post by HdE » Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:16 pm

WaveRacer wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:48 pm
HdE wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:42 am

Folks who have hacked the NES Mini have found they can add HUNDREDS of games to it. Which begs the question: if the scope was there for Nintendo to provide more, why didn't they? Sure, the RRP would have likely gone up, but it would have been worth it to some folks.
But why should they add more?
Maybe to increase the value for money their product offers?

I don't think that's unreasonable. I mean, AT Games put out Atari Flashback consoles which are absolutely LOADED with games. Sure, they're not as sophisticated. And some of the consoles have been a bit glitchy. But when you have 90 or 120 games bundled... well, that does a lot to make the product more enticing.
WaveRacer wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:48 pm
This is why i say that roms and emulators have devalued the product.They are worth nothing on people eyes because of it. Only 30 games. Thats 30 games that would have cost £1500 at release, would cost a fortune buy the original hardware now, and probably £150+ to buy individually on Virtual console. Add in the hardware itself and 2 controllers, its actually a Bargain. [JUST TO POINT OUT: You actually only get one controller with the NES Mini.]
I Personally think aspects of this argument are HIGHLY subjective. Also - and this is an EXTREMELY important point: times have changed and technology has moved on. As much as some random Ebay sellers might post item listings with ridiculously inflated asking prices, they're hardly selling to a wide base of potential consumers. And a generation of younger gamers who didn't grow up with them aren't likely to spend megabucks on games that look and feel like much simpler experiences if they can pick up Monster Hunter World or God of War for a similar amount of money. Because they simply feel OUTDATED in comparison. We may personally take issue with that viewpoint. But it won't change the fact that that it's a viewpoint some people hold.

Consider this: You can pick up games for last generation consoles for HALF the price Nintendo are asking for certain of their back-catalogue games on their eshop / virtual console. Whether they're right or wrong to so so, some people will judge a product's worth based on details like that.

My point is that consumers tend to define the object worth of something for themselves, on an individual basis. For instance, there's no way I'd spend £6.00 on Mario Bros for the Switch. It's simply not appealing to me at that price. Not because I have a dodgy ROM of it somewhere (and I don't), but because, frankly, I think it's an overhyped game that has not stood the test of time. Make it, say, £2.00 (which isn't outside the realms of possibility - eshop sales are a thing, after all) and I'd be more tempted, maybe. On the other hand, £6.29 for any one of Hamster's ACA NeoGeo ports feels like a STEAL to me.

What I'm getting at here is that I don't think you can make generalisations in this discussion like 'ROMs make games worthless to people.' Because we all define what something is worth on our own terms. And it's maybe not even the POINT of why some folks are concerned about ROM sites being squashed.

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Re: Nintendo shut down Emuparadise.

Post by WaveRacer » Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:36 pm

DPrinny wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:48 pm
WaveRacer wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:48 pm

The idea that the games are worthless because Roms are freely available is rampant and its no wonder Nintendo have taken steps. I do agree however hat they should have sent letters to only remove games that Nintendo are releasing again.
Anybody that can use Ebay will know this is false
Its just shelf collectors that believe this

The type of person that will take a selfie with the game with the "Ive just had a cattleprod up the arse" look on there face and only really buy to have another slot filled in there empty little lives
Move outside your bubble. Its the general view of a lot of people who don't collect. Many people who are not collectors think they are not worth buying. Look at Facebook. The sheer amount of people who said the minis were a rip off or a waste of money because you can get all the games for free.

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Re: Nintendo shut down Emuparadise.

Post by Gamer Guy » Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:53 am

if people wanna collect the originals they will.

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Re: Nintendo shut down Emuparadise.

Post by Matt_B » Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:54 am

There certainly were lots of people complaining that the games selections on Nintendo's classic consoles weren't good enough, but that didn't stop them from being nigh impossible to get hold of for over a year because of the demand. As such, it would seem hard to deny that Nintendo managed to come up with something suitable for rather a lot of the people who were prepared to pay money for their games in the first place.

Conversely, it'd have been extremely difficult to silence all their critics. While they could doubtless have acquired some more games, no amount would ever be enough for someone used to being able to download the entire ROM set of 700-odd, plus assorted regional variations and homebrews. There are also others that that would be technically difficult because they require extra hardware such as R.O.B. or a light gun that wouldn't work with a modern TV, but can be emulated after a fashion on a PC. The issues don't end with the game selection either; the emulation isn't nearly as feature rich or accurate as the best you can run on a PC, and you're stuck with relatively short wired controllers. Things like that can be fixed for a price, but pushing it up too much would start to alienate the sort of people who'd flocked to it because they'd managed to keep things relatively cheap.

That said, I don't think that issuing C&D letters will achieve anything in itself, and I'd like to see them update their virtual console business model into the era of subscription-based gaming. It seems to be working fairly well for both Sony and Microsoft at the moment and, while Nintendo are somewhat late to the party, they have a big advantage over both in that they neither need to invest in the hardware infrastructure that Sony need for PS Now nor face the technical challenges Microsoft have when it comes to virtualization of their their older consoles. On the other hand, if they're going to persist in selling Balloon Fight and the like for $6 a download... erm, best not to expect too many takers there.

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Re: Nintendo shut down Emuparadise.

Post by psj3809 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:41 am

pratty wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:44 pm
As others have said we will value these games more, we'll play games more thoroughly to get our money's worth out of games we've legally bought, and these games will be talked about and celebrated more. I remember when Super Metroid was released for the Wii U e-shop, while the release was perhaps strategically held back by Nintendo, when it came out suddenly there was a lot of interest in the game and franchise in general. People were playing it at the same time, making videos on youtube and talking about it on forums.
I personally think that in the 'dark times' of say the early-mid 90's when there was no emulation these old games (NES etc) were just sat there gathering dust. Due to emulation this got more and more popular and suddenly the companies thought 'theres money to be made in these old games' so they started re releasing them for modern platforms. So to me emulation helped spark this huge boom (and so did the internet as suddenly we all realised 'damn theres lots of other people who love these old classics'). The huge rise in emulation has helped trigger tons of companies re-releasing games, Retro Gamer being out, all these shows you now get compared to the old days where you had the odd one. Emulation has obviously been great for sparking off the scene. Look at MAME cabs etc, Arcade Club, the scenes huge.

I have friends who wouldnt go near emulation JUST because they dont want to 'faff' about with it all, they're very happy with compilations or a handheld device with 25 games etc so i do believe us old emulation fans have helped all of this a ton.

As for Emuparadise being shut down thats a joke as there'll be tons of other sites out there. Many of us are collectors and also now with us all with an income compared to our early years many people will be quite happy buying these new rehashed compilations. I've got tons of games via emulation on my phone but the second Duck Tales remastered etc comes out i'll snap it up 100% to support these new versions etc on my device.

Personally I think emulation and official compilations can both 'live together'. There will be people who as you say will say the mini's are a rip off (and moaning about the selection of games) but for lots of fans who are non-emulation (as in dont want to download tons of files etc, just want something in their hands) they're ideal.

I've got many friends who have never used an emulator but they're excited as anything like a little kid the second they see the NES mini in a shop and recognise some of the games. They love them as its just plug n play. But people who film unboxing videos and people who keep games in cellophane for 25 years - those are the bad ones ;)

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Re: Nintendo shut down Emuparadise.

Post by DPrinny » Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:23 am

WaveRacer wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:36 pm

Move outside your bubble. Its the general view of a lot of people who don't collect. Many people who are not collectors think they are not worth buying. Look at Facebook. The sheer amount of people who said the minis were a rip off or a waste of money because you can get all the games for free.
I collect, but I aint one of them types that will pay what ever for something to go on the shelf
In the end, I really dont need it

I see these mini games machines with a handful of ROMs
I see my Everdrives and loaders
And question why would anybody pay for an emulation box just because it has some branding on it

If downloading ROMs devalue the product why cant we just go on Ebay and nab a load of games dirt cheap?
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Re: Nintendo shut down Emuparadise.

Post by psj3809 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:26 pm

i think some non hardcore gamers are quite happy with an 'emulation box' as they dont want to faff about with emulators and downloads etc. Just want to buy something they see in the shops and plug n play. (Plus the owners get something from it moneywise)

I've got a megadrive emulator on my phone but i'm quite happy downloading the official Sega apps (which are free) and paying to get rid of adverts on the games so Sega get some money. Got MAME on my phone but was totally happy buying the proper Capcom games (sadly its better to play on MAME than the Capcom app controls). Find it frustrating that some companies wont re-release games for certain platforms (so i'm totally okay downloading a rom) and other games are just sat there gathering dust.

Would love to play Dark Forces on my iphone (which i could previously via Dosbox until Apple shut it down) but the only option is on PC. I've got it on PC (again via Steam) but i'm gutted some companies wont re-release old classics on a variety of platforms

Years back i used to copy tons as a schoolkid, years later (obviously with a job/money etc) i'm happy as anything to buy all these games. Just frustrated at the restrictions i have, eg 'game x' i would buy if it was available for my device but its only available if i buy 'system x' etc. Shame we cant play most of these old classics on lots of systems

WaveRacer
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Re: Nintendo shut down Emuparadise.

Post by WaveRacer » Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:33 pm

DPrinny wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:23 am
WaveRacer wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:36 pm

Move outside your bubble. Its the general view of a lot of people who don't collect. Many people who are not collectors think they are not worth buying. Look at Facebook. The sheer amount of people who said the minis were a rip off or a waste of money because you can get all the games for free.
I collect, but I aint one of them types that will pay what ever for something to go on the shelf
In the end, I really dont need it

I see these mini games machines with a handful of ROMs
I see my Everdrives and loaders
And question why would anybody pay for an emulation box just because it has some branding on it

If downloading ROMs devalue the product why cant we just go on Ebay and nab a load of games dirt cheap?
You completely missed my point and yet proved it at the same time. I am not talking about devaluing the collectors market for old carts etc, I am talking about devaluing the IP and potential future value.

I am not saying it devalues the physical media of original carts, I am saying that in the eyes of a lot of people they see the mini with 30 games on it and think its not worth the money, it devalues the product for future sales in terms of new media.

Which you have completely proved, Even though the Mini by comparison in cost to getting thoses games legit is actually great value. People like yourself have the attitude that they are not worth the money because you can get the roms for free. Therefore devaluing the product in terms of possible future sales which is exactly why Nintendo are doing this.

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DPrinny
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Re: Nintendo shut down Emuparadise.

Post by DPrinny » Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:01 pm

I wouldn't say that
While I wont say I have a massive collection, I own what I want, what I dont own and is a bit expensive ill just play off a flashcart/isoloader on the original hardware

Dont really give a toss what people play and on what they play
Just dont like those that buy anything gaming related and have no intention of ever playing it
Basically being a hoarder

I was close to that point once
Matt_B wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:54 am
On the other hand, if they're going to persist in selling Balloon Fight and the like for $6 a download... erm, best not to expect too many takers there.
Nintendos eshop pricing confuse a lot of people
Few discounts to be had
Digital versions of new releases that cost more and they dont really drop in price
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WaveRacer
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Re: Nintendo shut down Emuparadise.

Post by WaveRacer » Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:36 pm

DPrinny wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:01 pm
I wouldn't say that
While I wont say I have a massive collection, I own what I want, what I dont own and is a bit expensive ill just play off a flashcart/isoloader on the original hardware

Dont really give a toss what people play and on what they play
Just dont like those that buy anything gaming related and have no intention of ever playing it
Basically being a hoarder

I was close to that point once
Matt_B wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:54 am
On the other hand, if they're going to persist in selling Balloon Fight and the like for $6 a download... erm, best not to expect too many takers there.
Nintendos eshop pricing confuse a lot of people
Few discounts to be had
Digital versions of new releases that cost more and they dont really drop in price
But like you said, you think the NES mini is a waste of money because you have access to all the roms for free,

Which is exactly my point, the existence and easily available Roms devalues products such as the nes mini in your eyes.

If illegal roms and emulators never existed, then more than likely people like yourself would think the NES or Snes mini was good value.

Its not just Nintendo though, Look at how many people have said they would not buy the genesis collection because they have The roms for free. Even though 50 plus games ona single dis is superb value.

Like I said, illegal Roms and Emulators devalues the IP.

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Re: Nintendo shut down Emuparadise.

Post by DPrinny » Mon Aug 20, 2018 6:30 pm

WaveRacer wrote:
Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:36 pm
But like you said, you think the NES mini is a waste of money because you have access to all the roms for free,

Which is exactly my point, the existence and easily available Roms devalues products such as the nes mini in your eyes.

If illegal roms and emulators never existed, then more than likely people like yourself would think the NES or Snes mini was good value.

Its not just Nintendo though, Look at how many people have said they would not buy the genesis collection because they have The roms for free. Even though 50 plus games ona single dis is superb value.

Like I said, illegal Roms and Emulators devalues the IP.
If the ROMs didnt exist a lot of games would be lost and nobody would even bother trying to play a lot of them hidden gems
If anything these ROMs give people a taster of the games before buying, after playing a few games via emulation I ended up getting a hold of the game where as otherwise id of just not even bothered to try it
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