Emuparadise Shuts Up Shop

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SpecChum81
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Emuparadise Shuts Up Shop

Post by SpecChum81 » Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:09 pm

In case you haven't heard, Nintendo have launched a lawsuit against various retro/rom sharing websites.

They are claiming $2M in damages and copyright infringement.

Emuparadise and others have disabled the entire rom sections of their sites.

Where does this leave us?

Where does this leave retro gaming as a whole?

Piracy is of course illegal and should be stamped out.

But for those who collect roms for systems such as the Mega Drive, Spectrum, BBC Acorn and other systems that are at least 25 years old, it is often the best, if not the only way to play these games.

Many of us have our original hardware, but often prefer emulation as it is instant and preserves our disks, cartridges and cassettes.

Yes there are retro collections available to buy, and you can get some retro titles on platforms such as PSN or Xbox Live but only a handful of titles.

Morally Nintendo are right, but what do we as the retro gaming community do?

How do we direct people to great retro games that they have either once loved or have yet to discover.

Emuparadise has been around since the year 200 and is is a great shame that it and other sites have had to get rid of their rom collections.

To say again, piracy is wrong, but to repeat further, where does that leas the retro gamers going forward?
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Re: Emuparadise Shuts Up Shop

Post by Spector » Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:26 pm

I think a lot of Retro Gamers were on to these kind of threats since the scene got going at the turn of the century and built up their CD/DVD collections with all the ROMS just in case they got taken down (I know I did).
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Re: Emuparadise Shuts Up Shop

Post by The Laird » Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:47 pm

There's already a thread about this here: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=55216

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Re: Emuparadise Shuts Up Shop

Post by SpecChum81 » Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:52 pm

Totally missed that that, apologies!

Then feel free to either merge or close this thread...
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Re: Emuparadise Shuts Up Shop

Post by Gamer Guy » Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:55 am

:(

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Re: Emuparadise Shuts Up Shop

Post by outdated_gamer » Tue Aug 21, 2018 4:18 pm

Yeah, they seem to be going after all sites that host their properties.

My opinion - if the games are still sold, either in digital form or re-released, I can understand the request to pull them down, if they aren't, though, what's the deal?

There's several games and IPs that don't get re-released on any kind of service, aren't they by all definitions abandonware?

You can't buy Black & White, Geoff Crammond Grand Prix, No One Lives Forever, etc. on any online store, meaning the copy right holders get no dime from them anymore.

Also, as retro gamers, we enjoy the benefits that emulation offers, like superior image quality, framerates, mods, etc. Not everyone wants to play the games exactly as they were anymore.

All in all, this is a pretty big loss for retro gaming preservation and it's a shame they couldn't sort this out by simply removing download links to protected brands (I saw there's a list of them so it shouldn't be all that hard to do).

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Re: Emuparadise Shuts Up Shop

Post by icemann » Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:55 am

Whilst Nintendo is in the right, their reasons for going about it are not. Their just going for the sites, so that people have no choice but to use their services to get these games. The majority of which never get released. So if it's not released again, then it's gone forever. Forgotten (except in our memories). That doesn't sound right to me.

If it's for a game that Nintendo themselves made (aka Super Mario All Stars, Mario 64 etc) that's fine. They made that game. They have that right to choose. But say, what about Secret of Mana, Chronotrigger, Friday the 13th, Ikari Warriors etc etc? Nintendo has no right to these games. They don't own the IP. They don't have a legal leg to stand on when it comes to those games. Just because you own the platform, does not mean that you own the IP.

Otherwise you could say that a company that produced DVD/Blu-Ray players could sue people for making digital copies of their media. They can't. They don't own the IP. Only those who produced that media can sue. In the case of where the companies no longer exist, then no'one owns it or can claim it. That's free.

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Re: Emuparadise Shuts Up Shop

Post by Antiriad2097 » Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:21 am

icemann wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:55 am
In the case of where the companies no longer exist, then no'one owns it or can claim it. That's free.
Thta isn't quite true. Someone from the company, or the original creator (depends on contractual licensing stuff at the time), will still own the rights. A company shutting up shop doesn't automatically enter all their works into the public domain.
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Re: Emuparadise Shuts Up Shop

Post by pratty » Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:34 am

icemann wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:55 am
Whilst Nintendo is in the right, their reasons for going about it are not. Their just going for the sites, so that people have no choice but to use their services to get these games.
I've having a hard time getting my head around this point. It sounds like you're suggesting that Nintendo are scared of the competition with free Rom download sites, and are trying to create a monopoly on the distribution of their games, as if that's unreasonable.
icemann wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:55 am
The majority of which never get released. So if it's not released again, then it's gone forever. Forgotten (except in our memories). That doesn't sound right to me.
And yet I've not seen a single legally un-obtainable Nintendo game mentioned by name. What are they, and do you value them enough to pay for them?

And of course the original physical software and hardware to play these games will exist as long as people look after it, which they ought to if these games are as important and treasured as people insist they are.
icemann wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:55 am
If it's for a game that Nintendo themselves made (aka Super Mario All Stars, Mario 64 etc) that's fine. They made that game. They have that right to choose. But say, what about Secret of Mana, Chronotrigger, Friday the 13th, Ikari Warriors etc etc? Nintendo has no right to these games. They don't own the IP. They don't have a legal leg to stand on when it comes to those games. Just because you own the platform, does not mean that you own the IP.
Perhaps if Nintendo have done a distribution deal (perhaps an exclusive one) for a third party game then the sites are potentially taking money they're entitled to out of their pockets.

In any case do we know that Nintendo are claiming for games they don't own? Or are we only assuming that because the sites in question have taken everything down?

I'm not trying to sound holier-than-thou and condemn people downloading Roms. I actually think it's not that morally wrong to download a Rom for a game you've legally bought to use at your convenience in a manner not already offered legally by the IP holder. Or to try before you buy, or for image/video capturing purposes. But people have to accept illegally downloading games like any other legally protected media will always be an inconvenient game of cat and mouse.
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Re: Emuparadise Shuts Up Shop

Post by Antiriad2097 » Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:09 am

pratty wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:34 am
icemann wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 5:55 am
Whilst Nintendo is in the right, their reasons for going about it are not. Their just going for the sites, so that people have no choice but to use their services to get these games.
I've having a hard time getting my head around this point. It sounds like you're suggesting that Nintendo are scared of the competition with free Rom download sites, and are trying to create a monopoly on the distribution of their games, as if that's unreasonable.
Its a bit deeper than this. If Nintendo (or any other company) aren't seen to be protecting their works against illegal distribution, they can eventually fall into a state where they can in theory be legally not just distributed, but sold, by third parties. It could end up in a situation where another major publisher decides they'll have a slice of that pie and starts selling the games on their service with the original rights holder getting nothing. Can you imagine if Sony decided to put Nintendo ROMs on PS4 and cut Nintendo out of the loop altogether?
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Re: Emuparadise Shuts Up Shop

Post by HdE » Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:13 pm

I've just spotted something REALLY interesting on this subject.

ETA Prime recently posted a video on Youtube about a legit 'buy to own' package of Sega ROMs available on Steam, which can be bought either in one big $30.00 or individually for - as ETA Prime himself describes 'about a buck apiece.' These include Megadrive and Sega CD ROMs, which can be played in a bundled emulator package or run through the end user's emulator of choice.

I like this development! It's a neat way of Sega addressing demand for these older games, providing a legit way to do it for folks who are concerned about the legality of downloading ROMs.

This definitely points the way toward game preservation, as I see it. And, importantly, the price is right. I really hope other parties follow suit.

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Re: Emuparadise Shuts Up Shop

Post by pratty » Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:09 pm

HdE wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:13 pm
I've just spotted something REALLY interesting on this subject.

ETA Prime recently posted a video on Youtube about a legit 'buy to own' package of Sega ROMs available on Steam, which can be bought either in one big $30.00 or individually for - as ETA Prime himself describes 'about a buck apiece.' These include Megadrive and Sega CD ROMs, which can be played in a bundled emulator package or run through the end user's emulator of choice.

I like this development! It's a neat way of Sega addressing demand for these older games, providing a legit way to do it for folks who are concerned about the legality of downloading ROMs.

This definitely points the way toward game preservation, as I see it. And, importantly, the price is right. I really hope other parties follow suit.
I think this is a good move by Sega, and could suit some other developers. However i can't see Nintendo doing it for a few reasons.

Firstly they are in the hardware maket, and playing their old games on current hardware is a useful selling point.

Also Nintendo are more careful about protecting their brand and not pricing their games too cheaply. They want to preserve a feeling on quality about their software. At times I think they go too far to the extreme with some of the high digital prices of current software, but I also understand why they don't simply want to give retro software away at a buck each. They've spoken out in the past about the industry as a whole cheapening the value of the medium in general with digital games sold for pennies being regarded as essentially disposable by the consumer.

In this regard it's actually more effective to charge a higher RRP for digital retro games and then do most of their business during "sales", where the consumer gets the game at a more agreeable price without creating the perception of their games being "cheap".
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Re: Emuparadise Shuts Up Shop

Post by HdE » Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:12 pm

pratty wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:09 pm
I think this is a good move by Sega, and could suit some other developers. However i can't see Nintendo doing it for a few reasons.
Same here. Although, the primary reason that leaps to my mind is 'because Nintendo are a short-sighted bunch of twonks.'

I think the notion of rights owners providing their older software as Sega are doing on Steam is probably only the first step down what could likely be a very convoluted path. I can't see everybody with a stake in the busiess doing it the same way, and it isn't going to solve the problem of certain games disappearing apparently forever. But, baby steps, I guess.

If anything, ETA Prime's video can be taken as a further indication that we're heading into an interesting place with this stuff.

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Re: Emuparadise Shuts Up Shop

Post by pratty » Fri Aug 24, 2018 3:23 pm

HdE wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:12 pm
pratty wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:09 pm
I think this is a good move by Sega, and could suit some other developers. However i can't see Nintendo doing it for a few reasons.
Same here. Although, the primary reason that leaps to my mind is 'because Nintendo are a short-sighted bunch of twonks.'

I think the notion of rights owners providing their older software as Sega are doing on Steam is probably only the first step down what could likely be a very convoluted path. I can't see everybody with a stake in the busiess doing it the same way, and it isn't going to solve the problem of certain games disappearing apparently forever. But, baby steps, I guess.

If anything, ETA Prime's video can be taken as a further indication that we're heading into an interesting place with this stuff.
Nintendo may have an over-inflated opinion of themselves and their games, and that might make them twonks. But I think they are absolutely playing the long game. Competing with the likes of Sega for people's pennies is a race to the bottom, once they devalue the likes of Super Mario World and A Link to The Past to a dollar each there's probably no going back. Nintendo have hardware to sell and a reputation of quality to preserve, Sega don't.
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Re: Emuparadise Shuts Up Shop

Post by HdE » Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:29 pm

pratty wrote:
Fri Aug 24, 2018 3:23 pm
Nintendo may have an over-inflated opinion of themselves and their games, and that might make them twonks. But I think they are absolutely playing the long game. Competing with the likes of Sega for people's pennies is a race to the bottom, once they devalue the likes of Super Mario World and A Link to The Past to a dollar each there's probably no going back. Nintendo have hardware to sell and a reputation of quality to preserve, Sega don't.
Completely disagree with that last statement. I'll take the likes of Phantasy Star and Shining Force / Landstalker over the Zelda games any day. And for 79p each on Steam, I'd urge other folks to as well!

But it might all come down to how we define what 'devalues' a game. I personally would say that it's one of those ideas where we have to be careful that it isn't allowed to exist in a vaccum. The concept of devaluing games is valid, sure. But so is the concept of 'taking the p***' - which Nintendo are quite happily doing if they ask more than a casual gamer is willing to spend for older games.

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