The Greatest Games Systems Of All Time

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kiwimike
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Re: The Greatest Games Systems Of All Time

Post by kiwimike » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:50 pm

ncf1 wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2018 2:38 pm
yes I think that might happen, debates will rage :D PS1 was my third choice but I stated could have been my second, it was a toss-up with the Amiga. But I think the jump from Amiga > PS1 was equally as large as that from C64 > Amiga so second slot for me is virtually interchangeable.

Its interesting that in NZ you had BBC's and Speccy's as quite common, here I don't remember a single BBC owner, and only the one Speccy owner. That's something I have to research a bit - whether the C64/Amiga dominance was due to marketing or whether the options weren't there, I just don't remember if shops stocked BBC/Spectrum/Amstrad, my memory fails me. I just know what games the kids exchanged. :lol:
New Zealand (and probably Australia I would guess- but someone there could answer that) was a strange video game / computer market in the 80s. It tended to embrace all markets and be a mish mash of US, UK, Japan and Hong Kong. So while some machines did well in the US but not the UK, and vice versa, NZ tended to embrace all- and got into clones and Hong Kong computers/games. I loved the fact it was like that though.

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ncf1
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Re: The Greatest Games Systems Of All Time

Post by ncf1 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:55 am

kiwimike wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:50 pm

New Zealand (and probably Australia I would guess- but someone there could answer that) was a strange video game / computer market in the 80s. It tended to embrace all markets and be a mish mash of US, UK, Japan and Hong Kong. So while some machines did well in the US but not the UK, and vice versa, NZ tended to embrace all- and got into clones and Hong Kong computers/games. I loved the fact it was like that though.
you've sparked a memory now, I do remember the Apple II clones we had, I remember seeing an "Apricot" once, I remember a friend who owned a Microbee.. so there was diversity here also. And the once Spectrum owner I recall. But Amstrad, I don't remember anyone having one of those.. but my school wasn't in a very affluent area so perhaps the diversity was just as wide as in NZ but I focused more on what I had and kids that also did.

I agree with you though, much better to be diverse, how exciting was it seeing a friend's computer that you'd never encountered before and seeing it run, for instance.. great times. :)

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Re: The Greatest Games Systems Of All Time

Post by kiwimike » Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:08 pm

ncf1 wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:55 am
kiwimike wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:50 pm

New Zealand (and probably Australia I would guess- but someone there could answer that) was a strange video game / computer market in the 80s. It tended to embrace all markets and be a mish mash of US, UK, Japan and Hong Kong. So while some machines did well in the US but not the UK, and vice versa, NZ tended to embrace all- and got into clones and Hong Kong computers/games. I loved the fact it was like that though.
you've sparked a memory now, I do remember the Apple II clones we had, I remember seeing an "Apricot" once, I remember a friend who owned a Microbee.. so there was diversity here also. And the once Spectrum owner I recall. But Amstrad, I don't remember anyone having one of those.. but my school wasn't in a very affluent area so perhaps the diversity was just as wide as in NZ but I focused more on what I had and kids that also did.

I agree with you though, much better to be diverse, how exciting was it seeing a friend's computer that you'd never encountered before and seeing it run, for instance.. great times. :)
Yes indeed, Apple clones. I remember the Apricot! :lol: A friend had from memory a clone he bought called the 'Circle II' - I think that's right- back from overseas. I gave him my Apple II disks as I had no use for them after school years. And it was 100% compatible, all disks and games worked on it :)

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ncf1
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Re: The Greatest Games Systems Of All Time

Post by ncf1 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:27 am

kiwimike wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:08 pm

Yes indeed, Apple clones. I remember the Apricot! :lol: A friend had from memory a clone he bought called the 'Circle II' - I think that's right- back from overseas. I gave him my Apple II disks as I had no use for them after school years. And it was 100% compatible, all disks and games worked on it :)
Lucky the games worked because from what I recall, the Apple II clones were something like 99% compatible ; they had to change their BASIC to something ever so slightly different so as to not be exactly the same as Applesoft and avoid infringement.. fat chance hehe.

Hmm, I've learnt something today, I just looked it up and found the 'Laser 128' was the only legal Apple II clone ever made, it was a IIc clone. I wonder how much the clones go for on Ebay.. might take a look. :D I wonder if there are any still kicking around.

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Re: The Greatest Games Systems Of All Time

Post by kiwimike » Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:54 pm

ncf1 wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 12:27 am
kiwimike wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 11:08 pm

Yes indeed, Apple clones. I remember the Apricot! :lol: A friend had from memory a clone he bought called the 'Circle II' - I think that's right- back from overseas. I gave him my Apple II disks as I had no use for them after school years. And it was 100% compatible, all disks and games worked on it :)
Lucky the games worked because from what I recall, the Apple II clones were something like 99% compatible ; they had to change their BASIC to something ever so slightly different so as to not be exactly the same as Applesoft and avoid infringement.. fat chance hehe.

Hmm, I've learnt something today, I just looked it up and found the 'Laser 128' was the only legal Apple II clone ever made, it was a IIc clone. I wonder how much the clones go for on Ebay.. might take a look. :D I wonder if there are any still kicking around.
You may get me hunting too! Doing some research on Apple Clones, how many and whats around :)

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ncf1
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Re: The Greatest Games Systems Of All Time

Post by ncf1 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 9:26 pm

kiwimike wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:54 pm

You may get me hunting too! Doing some research on Apple Clones, how many and whats around :)
hehe I love the 'Peach" they have on Ebay.. very inventive indeed. And on sold was called a "Goblin II".

I'd probably have actually bought one if the prices had been reasonable.. well, dirt cheap, just to fiddle around with, but even the clones have kept up a bit in price.
On the other hand probably best to stick with emulation, don't think I could deal with the headaches that come along with diskettes and old drives.. just think I'll stick with reading about them. :D

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Re: The Greatest Games Systems Of All Time

Post by kiwimike » Mon Jan 15, 2018 12:29 am

Was reading a few sites and it seems ironically clone or at least a few of them can go for higher costs than the Apple original! The originals certainly appear more often than the clones on the local auction sites.

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Re: The Greatest Games Systems Of All Time

Post by Matt_B » Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:36 am

I'd think that it's all down to the numbers of them that are around. The Apple II was a very popular machine that sold by the millions, while most of the clones weren't made in anything like the same quantity.

As a machine that was built almost entirely out of off-the-shelf components it was relatively easy to clone too. They learned the lesson with the Mac, which was practically impossible to clone without licensing something from Apple.

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ncf1
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Re: The Greatest Games Systems Of All Time

Post by ncf1 » Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:25 am

I think that's what it is Matt, the scarcity of the clones and the popularity of the Apple driving the price up. I'm also reading about how Wozniak, when creating the original Apple I would attend hobby meets with selected friends, and simply share what he was learning. He wasn't into keeping things secret, so quite a few had their hands on what some would have killed for at the time. And just like how Jobs cashed in behind Woz's back with Breakout, I bet some of those guys made a bit of money behind Woz's back too.. ! Woz probably wondering soon afterwards "Where did this "Peach" come from... and a .. "Pineapple"??" :D

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Re: The Greatest Games Systems Of All Time

Post by Matt_B » Mon Jan 15, 2018 4:05 pm

ncf1 wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:25 am
I think that's what it is Matt, the scarcity of the clones and the popularity of the Apple driving the price up. I'm also reading about how Wozniak, when creating the original Apple I would attend hobby meets with selected friends, and simply share what he was learning. He wasn't into keeping things secret, so quite a few had their hands on what some would have killed for at the time. And just like how Jobs cashed in behind Woz's back with Breakout, I bet some of those guys made a bit of money behind Woz's back too.. ! Woz probably wondering soon afterwards "Where did this "Peach" come from... and a .. "Pineapple"??" :D
I'd be surprised if there was that much subterfuge involved. Rather, most of the clones came from other countries and were made by people who'd presumably never met Woz or his friends. Back in those days, all you really needed to make a clone of a computer was to have the same CPU and make a reasonably accurate copy of the video circuit; anyone could get the former from Commodore and the latter - although highly ingenious in its design - was easy to reverse engineer because it was made from easily available components. In contrast, there weren't any good clones of machines like the Atari 800 or the Commodore 64 about, because they made extensive use of custom chips that were practically impossible to copy.

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Re: The Greatest Games Systems Of All Time

Post by outdated_gamer » Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:43 pm

There's many systems that I feel were the best in their times that I did not own. For example, Atari 800 was the best late 70s gaming system, but I didn't own it (got a 2600 Jr much later), Commodore 64 was the best early 80s gaming system (tied with the short lived ColecoVision maybe), and I didn't have it (had a Speccy which was also nice), Amiga 1000/500 was the best late 80s gaming system (although the PC Engine/TG-16 and Sega Mega Drive/Genesis deserve a mention too) and I didn't own it, a DOS PC with 486 DX 66 was the best early 90s gaming system and yet again I didn't own it (got a Pentium 120 PC a considerable time later - had the SNES and MD though, both nice game boxes) and a Windows PC with 3dfx Voodoo was the best late 90s game system and yet again I was lagging behind here (did more gaming on the N64, which I did appreciate; the Sony PlayStation and Sega Dreamcast deserve credit too). Come early 2000s, I started to embarce PC gaming more and never really looked back, but I did appreciate some console endavours, for me personally the GameCube and Xbox 360, but the PS2, Xbox, PS3 and the newer systems (i.e. Wii U, Xbox One, PS4, Switch) also have their ups. Nevermind the portable systems, which added a new dimension to gaming.

TL:DR; I can appreciate all systems I owned and even those I didn't, but my perspectives may be biased because I didn't get to experience them all and at the time they were the most popular.

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Re: The Greatest Games Systems Of All Time

Post by kiwimike » Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:10 am

Matt_B wrote:
Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:36 am
I'd think that it's all down to the numbers of them that are around. The Apple II was a very popular machine that sold by the millions, while most of the clones weren't made in anything like the same quantity.

As a machine that was built almost entirely out of off-the-shelf components it was relatively easy to clone too. They learned the lesson with the Mac, which was practically impossible to clone without licensing something from Apple.
Yes indeed, it was late in the piece that Apple clones reached our shores, and although a cheaper alternative at the time for the Hong Kong made clones, still in far limited numbers so I can see why they are rarer now, and quite sought after for collectors.

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Re: The Greatest Games Systems Of All Time

Post by kiwimike » Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:13 am

outdated_gamer wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:43 pm
There's many systems that I feel were the best in their times that I did not own. For example, Atari 800 was the best late 70s gaming system, but I didn't own it (got a 2600 Jr much later), Commodore 64 was the best early 80s gaming system (tied with the short lived ColecoVision maybe), and I didn't have it (had a Speccy which was also nice), Amiga 1000/500 was the best late 80s gaming system (although the PC Engine/TG-16 and Sega Mega Drive/Genesis deserve a mention too) and I didn't own it, a DOS PC with 486 DX 66 was the best early 90s gaming system and yet again I didn't own it (got a Pentium 120 PC a considerable time later - had the SNES and MD though, both nice game boxes) and a Windows PC with 3dfx Voodoo was the best late 90s game system and yet again I was lagging behind here (did more gaming on the N64, which I did appreciate; the Sony PlayStation and Sega Dreamcast deserve credit too). Come early 2000s, I started to embarce PC gaming more and never really looked back, but I did appreciate some console endavours, for me personally the GameCube and Xbox 360, but the PS2, Xbox, PS3 and the newer systems (i.e. Wii U, Xbox One, PS4, Switch) also have their ups. Nevermind the portable systems, which added a new dimension to gaming.

TL:DR; I can appreciate all systems I owned and even those I didn't, but my perspectives may be biased because I didn't get to experience them all and at the time they were the most popular.
You're right of course, our personal bias will always come into a topic or debate, and it is more favourite systems ever rather than greatest, which is totally subjective and differs with each individual. It's a great topic though, and a nice spin on best games lists/countdowns :)

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Re: The Greatest Games Systems Of All Time

Post by outdated_gamer » Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:52 pm

kiwimike wrote:
Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:13 am
outdated_gamer wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:43 pm
There's many systems that I feel were the best in their times that I did not own. For example, Atari 800 was the best late 70s gaming system, but I didn't own it (got a 2600 Jr much later), Commodore 64 was the best early 80s gaming system (tied with the short lived ColecoVision maybe), and I didn't have it (had a Speccy which was also nice), Amiga 1000/500 was the best late 80s gaming system (although the PC Engine/TG-16 and Sega Mega Drive/Genesis deserve a mention too) and I didn't own it, a DOS PC with 486 DX 66 was the best early 90s gaming system and yet again I didn't own it (got a Pentium 120 PC a considerable time later - had the SNES and MD though, both nice game boxes) and a Windows PC with 3dfx Voodoo was the best late 90s game system and yet again I was lagging behind here (did more gaming on the N64, which I did appreciate; the Sony PlayStation and Sega Dreamcast deserve credit too). Come early 2000s, I started to embarce PC gaming more and never really looked back, but I did appreciate some console endavours, for me personally the GameCube and Xbox 360, but the PS2, Xbox, PS3 and the newer systems (i.e. Wii U, Xbox One, PS4, Switch) also have their ups. Nevermind the portable systems, which added a new dimension to gaming.

TL:DR; I can appreciate all systems I owned and even those I didn't, but my perspectives may be biased because I didn't get to experience them all and at the time they were the most popular.
You're right of course, our personal bias will always come into a topic or debate, and it is more favourite systems ever rather than greatest, which is totally subjective and differs with each individual. It's a great topic though, and a nice spin on best games lists/countdowns :)
Exactly, we can only really appreciate things we experienced back then. If, for example, someone only had a Speccy, Atari ST, Mega Drive, PS1, Dreamcast, X360 and XBO and experienced the other systems much later, he'll still be biased towards the systems he had at the time. Very few actually got to experience all the things and at those time periods too.

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Re: The Greatest Games Systems Of All Time

Post by BarbaricAvatar » Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:36 pm

I'm heavily biased towards the PS2. :D Where did that come?
No, i'm not angry. That's just how i write.

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