Employment Law/Advice

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IronMaidenRule
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Employment Law/Advice

Post by IronMaidenRule » Wed Sep 14, 2016 7:11 pm

Anyone up to speed on employment law as I think my current employer is trying to pull a fast one.

In short, I am on a 52 week contract, entitled to 25 days holiday a year. As it is a school they are now saying I need to have booked all my holidays for the year(September 2016 - August 2017) by the 23rd of September (How the hell do I know what holiday days I will need next year!!!) and it can't be more than two weeks (10 days) at a time :(

We had an email today to all Support Staff and it came totally out of the blue, in that past we could just submit a form and that would be approved by our immediate manager, the above just seems dodgy.

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RetroBob
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Re: Employment Law/Advice

Post by RetroBob » Thu Sep 15, 2016 5:09 am

We'll you've definitely come to the right place... a retro games forum! I jest :)

Sounds like horse censored to me, does it say anything like that in your contract?
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David
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Re: Employment Law/Advice

Post by David » Thu Sep 15, 2016 7:08 am

Might be right

All of my holidays are allocated to me at the start of the year whether they suit or not and everything has to be planned around these.

Also no more than 2 weeks off at a time

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joefish
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Re: Employment Law/Advice

Post by joefish » Thu Sep 15, 2016 7:24 am

They're fairly easy about when I book my holidays in IT, so long as everyone in the team isn't out at once.
But I've known people in factory work and banking who have to nominate all their holidays before the year starts. It's tough, but it happens.
However they shouldn't just change the rules on this without consultation. As ever, check your contract.

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dste
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Re: Employment Law/Advice

Post by dste » Thu Sep 15, 2016 7:52 am

Unfortunately as far as I'm aware it is perfectly legal. You can check your contract to see if anything is mentioned but I would be very surprised if it was.

Chances are the school will say it falls under business needs so that they can plan for the year. You can probably raise a grievance with the school but I cannot imagine that much would come of it unless a few of you complain.

Some links for you:

https://www.gov.uk/holiday-entitlement- ... -time-off-
http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1374
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/ ... from-work/
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The Laird
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Re: Employment Law/Advice

Post by The Laird » Thu Sep 15, 2016 8:05 am

IronMaidenRule wrote:Anyone up to speed on employment law as I think my current employer is trying to pull a fast one.

In short, I am on a 52 week contract, entitled to 25 days holiday a year. As it is a school they are now saying I need to have booked all my holidays for the year(September 2016 - August 2017) by the 23rd of September (How the hell do I know what holiday days I will need next year!!!) and it can't be more than two weeks (10 days) at a time :(

We had an email today to all Support Staff and it came totally out of the blue, in that past we could just submit a form and that would be approved by our immediate manager, the above just seems dodgy.
I have heard this before and had a former employer try to pull something like this on me. Basically it all comes down to what is in your contract and terms & conditions that were given to you when you joined. In my case it stated in my contract that holiday had to be approved by a manager at least 4 weeks before it was taken and that I could not take more than 10 working days (2 weeks) at a time. So basically they didn't have a leg to stand on and when I threatened them with my union rep. they backed right down.

IronMaidenRule
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Re: Employment Law/Advice

Post by IronMaidenRule » Thu Sep 15, 2016 6:03 pm

Thanks for the replies guys, from what I can gather after today they are trying to pull our holiday booking system more in line with other places that people have mentioned, so we are all currently digging through copies of our contracts to see what is mentioned like The Laird pointed to.

I think in the end they will get their way, either through changes in contracts/consultation periods or staff leaving.

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Spector
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Re: Employment Law/Advice

Post by Spector » Fri Sep 16, 2016 3:23 am

Okay since IronMaidenRule has got his employment query answered, I'd like to jump in and ask one of my own:

A person in a management position acts in an improper way, and this is reported. An investigation is launched, and just as the investigation is being concluded, the person hands in her notice saying she's got another job, does her final four weeks and then leaves. The investigation finds her to be in the main guilty of what she was accused of.
But it doesn't matter, because she's left her job and can avoid repercussions. Isn't that convenient. But doesn't the company have a legal responsibility to tell her new employer that she left her old job while under investigation? Surely they do?
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Re: Employment Law/Advice

Post by Antiriad2097 » Fri Sep 16, 2016 4:00 am

Spector wrote:Okay since IronMaidenRule has got his employment query answered, I'd like to jump in and ask one of my own:

A person in a management position acts in an improper way, and this is reported. An investigation is launched, and just as the investigation is being concluded, the person hands in her notice saying she's got another job, does her final four weeks and then leaves. The investigation finds her to be in the main guilty of what she was accused of.
But it doesn't matter, because she's left her job and can avoid repercussions. Isn't that convenient. But doesn't the company have a legal responsibility to tell her new employer that she left her old job while under investigation? Surely they do?
Nope.

Legal requirements as far as references go are duration of employment and positions held. There's no requirement to confirm ability or performance while in the role.

If it went to industrial tribunal (or criminal court in the case of fraud/embezzlement etc) and a case was upheld there, then there may be some responsibility for the employee to reveal such, but it doesn't fall to the employer afaik. Since it was only internal, it'll be swept under the carpet.
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The Laird
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Re: Employment Law/Advice

Post by The Laird » Fri Sep 16, 2016 5:49 am

Actually it depends what they ask on the reference. Some employers just ask for the basics as Ant said, in which case nothing would be said. But some employers, especially ones that require something like a CRB check, will ask for more information. I myself have given references for people where I am directly asked why they left employment with my company and I have had to tell people they were fired or facing disciplinary measures.

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Antiriad2097
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Re: Employment Law/Advice

Post by Antiriad2097 » Fri Sep 16, 2016 7:05 am

What they ask for and what they're legally obliged to be supplied with are two different things.

Yes, there's stuff like CRB, but an employer can decline to specify reasons for leaving if they wish.

References requests almost always ask for more info like this, but many companies don't supply it, especially larger ones where it'll be handled centrally and not by the managers 'in the know' to give an opinion.

Part of this is due to hiring and firing being very much down to personal opinion anyway. One manager's 'good' staff could be another's 'awful', so getting binned may not mean they're not perfectly capable elsewhere.

Ditto for 'misconduct'. Quite often there's no legal breach to speak of, frequently being for things there's no explicit contract for.

You're not obliged to say they were fired, all you need to do is give start and end dates for employment.
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Spector
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Re: Employment Law/Advice

Post by Spector » Fri Sep 16, 2016 7:39 am

Okay let's take the example further then. For the sake of argument, imagine the person was a manager of a care service with a vulnerable person of severe learning disability, and the manager was found by the company to have caused distress to the vulnerable person through improper decision-making.

Would the company be obliged to tell this to her new employer if the job was in the same line of work?
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The Laird
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Re: Employment Law/Advice

Post by The Laird » Fri Sep 16, 2016 8:25 am

Spector wrote:Okay let's take the example further then. For the sake of argument, imagine the person was a manager of a care service with a vulnerable person of severe learning disability, and the manager was found by the company to have caused distress to the vulnerable person through improper decision-making.

Would the company be obliged to tell this to her new employer if the job was in the same line of work?
These are exactly the type of situations I am talking about and I can give 2 perfect examples that I have personally experienced:

I used to run a wine shop and by law we could not employ anybody who had any kind of criminal record for alcohol related offenses, if we did we would be fined and could have our licence revoked. I had a girl who I employed as my Assistant Manager, she answered no to the question on her application and in her interview. On the reference request I sent to her previous employer it asked why she had left employment and we were informed that she was arrested for drink driving and had lost her licence (both driving and alcohol licence) because of it. Her previous employer was a pub so would have had similar restrictions.

When I worked for a large high street bank we discovered that somebody was not only stealing money but also harassing a young girl he met in the bank by taking her details from the system (data protection breach) and harassing her online. For this he got fired for gross misconduct and got a criminal record in the process so would never be able to work in banking again as this ALWAYS requires a clean CRB check.

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Helensification
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Re: Employment Law/Advice

Post by Helensification » Fri Sep 16, 2016 6:39 pm

If the person was dismissed due to a safeguarding incident, the company is obliged to inform DBS which would then be on that person's record permanently.

Future DBS searches would then show this but I do not think DBS would retrospectively inform prospective employers that an employees DBS status has now changed.

I think employers are not obliged to alter a reference already given, if the disciplinary outcome was agreed after the person left their employment.
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