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Re: Obese people banned from routine surgery

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 3:54 am
by Antiriad2097
In fairness to the linked article, it's specifically talking about hip and knee ops. I'd imagine in the vast majority of these cases the docs would want weight loss before going ahead anyway, since the weight will be a major contributing factor to the problem and a hindrance to post op healing.

Double edged sword though, since exercise with a dodgy hip/knee will be limited.

I imagine the outright block on ops just saves wasting a lot of consultant time to come to the same conclusion that weight loss is needed before the op.

Re: Obese people banned from routine surgery

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 3:58 am
by English Invader
RetroAerosmith wrote:Absolutely there are many other drains on the NHS for sure, but i think the easiest one to tackle instantly is weight issues. In newspapers and poverty pron programmes we see the apparently poorer people moaning about the price of fruit and veg yet guzzling down full fat redbull or ordering pizzas with a cigarette in their gobs.
The people on the Benefits Britain programs on channel five don't represent the whole of the UK (or even everyone on welfare). Most people with half a grain of common sense realise that fruit and veg is still very cheap, it's just that not enough people want to eat it. In my local area, there used to be an independent greengrocer but that has long since given way to a betting shop.

Re: Obese people banned from routine surgery

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 5:04 am
by Antiriad2097
Your greengrocer closing isn't representative of people not buying veg, it's the result of supermarkets offering lower prices and the convenience of not having to go to the greengrocer's. Why go there when you can go to the supermarket and pick up your milk, bread and other shopping for less, all in one place?

Re: Obese people banned from routine surgery

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 5:14 am
by Sephiroth81
Antiriad2097 wrote:Your greengrocer closing isn't representative of people not buying veg, it's the result of supermarkets offering lower prices and the convenience of not having to go to the greengrocer's. Why go there when you can go to the supermarket and pick up your milk, bread and other shopping for less, all in one place?
Bread and milk are hardly going to help obese people lose weight! :P

But yea, the highstreet woes haven't cut out access to fruit and veg (it may not always be as fresh or organic as in specialist greengrocers, but its still readily available and fairly competitively priced) as supermarkets have filled that void and there are still fruit/veg markets about. High streets have become a collection of betting, charity and coffee shops though, which is depressing.

Re: Obese people banned from routine surgery

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 5:25 am
by The Beans
Sephiroth81 wrote:High streets have become a collection of betting, charity and coffee shops though, which is depressing.
Unless you want to stick a bet on, buy a secondhand jigsaw for 30p and then have a cuppa in among a load of pensioners, wi-fi leechers and single mums and their screaming kids. In which case it's happy days. With the added bonus of being able to sit down for five minutes while you decide which Greggs you're going to next.

Re: Obese people banned from routine surgery

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 5:29 am
by Megamixer
Don't forget card shops, phone shops and Cash Converters...

...or the hordes of chuggers who somehow think a derelict high street is the perfect place to find people able to afford to sign up to all kinds of charities.

Re: Obese people banned from routine surgery

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 5:42 am
by Sephiroth81
We also neglected to mention a tattoo parlour, a vape pen shop or 4 and an Argos Extra which holds no stock but has plenty of batteries and scart cable splitters by the cash registers.

Re: Obese people banned from routine surgery

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 5:53 am
by Grizzly
As a chunky person all i have to say is wow, this thread.

Re: Obese people banned from routine surgery

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 7:42 am
by English Invader
Antiriad2097 wrote:Your greengrocer closing isn't representative of people not buying veg, it's the result of supermarkets offering lower prices and the convenience of not having to go to the greengrocer's. Why go there when you can go to the supermarket and pick up your milk, bread and other shopping for less, all in one place?
Personally, I've never spent a penny in the betting shop and would much rather have a wider range of fresh vegetables to choose from - peas, carrots, broccoli all taste great when you use a steamer and it's virtually impossible to find decent sized jacket potatoes in a supermarket.

And I'm not an ultra-slim, keep-fit enthusiast either. I'm currently 14 stone with a BMI of 28.9 which puts me firmly into fat slob territory.

Re: Obese people banned from routine surgery

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:11 am
by Antiriad2097
English Invader wrote:I'm currently 14 stone with a BMI of 28.9 which puts me firmly into fat slob territory.
...but well within the BMI of 30 that the article states, so you'd get your surgery for your knackered knees.

Re: Obese people banned from routine surgery

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:45 am
by Matt_B
Antiriad2097 wrote:
English Invader wrote:I'm currently 14 stone with a BMI of 28.9 which puts me firmly into fat slob territory.
...but well within the BMI of 30 that the article states, so you'd get your surgery for your knackered knees.
It's a mere 8 pounds under the limit, so I'm not sure I'd say it's well in. When you bear in mind that bathroom scales are can be out by up to 5%, and body weight can vary by five pounds or so depending on fluid levels, it might even be over.

Also, I'd reiterate that BMI is a very crude measure of health; it roughly correlates with the amount of visceral fat you've got but there are exceptions at both ends of the scale. Many professional athletes would fall into the overweight category on account of their muscle mass - I believe Shaquille O'Neal had a BMI of 33 towards the end of his career in the NBA, for instance - while it's conversely possible for someone who is very short and slight to be carrying a lot of visceral fat even if their BMI is under 25. Simply screening by it without taking other factors into account just isn't scientific.

Re: Obese people banned from routine surgery

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 12:00 pm
by HalcyonDaze00
RetroAerosmith wrote:Absolutely there are many other drains on the NHS for sure, but i think the easiest one to tackle instantly is weight issues. In newspapers and poverty pron programmes we see the apparently poorer people moaning about the price of fruit and veg yet guzzling down full fat redbull or ordering pizzas with a cigarette in their gobs.

Its not a jealousy thing but my other half gran is 90 and she needed a stairlift fitted to help her go to the toilet, because she has her late husbands pension she was refused, her next door neighbour with 2 kids with "adhd" allow them to have everything, new car, rent paid, a taxi to take the kids to school etc, then there is the mother herself that has a mobility scooter and the husband is her carer.....
Tidying the magazines in work the weekend there is a story about someone who is being "fed" by her partner who has a fetish for fat, plus a 60stone woman saying she loves her fat and wont stop for anyone, yet if something happens to these the extra costs including specially made seats/wheelchairs/ambulances fire service etc that are needed is staggering.

I dont care who it offends as im guilty of it myself...the reason why im overweight is because i eat too much of the bad stuff while not moving to work it off. i understand "some" medication makes people put on weight BUT its we are what we eat...and some take the urune and it needs a wake up scare somewhere.
good post and fair play to you admitting that you may also have a weight issue.

as you say, there are many other drains on the NHS, but diet/obesity is one of the easiest to tackle, even if it seems unfair and being "fatist?"

there is no doubt a minority of people with underlying medical issues that cause weight problems, but for the vast majority it's appalling diet, greed, and lack of exercise.

Eat better, eat less, exercise, no reason why people can't be told that and well done to the NHS trusts who are making a stand on this.

Re: Obese people banned from routine surgery

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 3:35 pm
by pratty
Helensification wrote:If I needed an op and was recommended to lose weight due to the high risk of an anaesthetic to an obese person then that is one thing but to say I can't have it is another.

How far does this go?

If anything self inflicted or that could have been prevented becomes exempt, what about, smokers, drug takers, alcoholics, extreme sports enthusiasts, self-harmers, suicidal people, etc.

Or let's go even more extreme, don't treat people who get drunk on a night out, hurt themselves dancing, ride motorbikes, cycling, etc and let's not forget how dangerous is working out in the gym or other keep fit activities, sprained ankles, broken bones, pulled muscles.

Ridiculous, yes of course it is, but once you start being selective of who can access the NHS and for what reasons then it is a slippery downward spiral to the end of the NHS.
That's the problem.

The way i look at it is if you contribute to the NHS then get your monies worth. It's a health insurance forced on you by the government so if they want to insist that you contribute then you may as well use what you're being forced to pay for.

But if you don't contribute then i think it's fair for the the NHS to ask you to meet them half way. In this situation I wouldn't regard asking a non-contributor to lose weight before an operation as refusing to treat a person in need, it's more placing a condition on treatment that is already promised. It puts the ball in the patients court, if they then refuse to lose the weight, then they are the one effectively refusing treatment.

Re: Obese people banned from routine surgery

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 3:47 pm
by Sephiroth81
This thread gets stoopider by the day....

Re: Obese people banned from routine surgery

Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 4:11 pm
by pratty
Sephiroth81 wrote:This thread gets stoopider by the day....
In what way?