Obese people banned from routine surgery

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merman
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Re: Obese people banned from routine surgery

Post by merman » Sun Sep 04, 2016 11:31 am

markopoloman wrote:This is nothing new. Back when I had surgery (anyone remember the photos I posted?!) I was initially refused surgery until I lost 2st - and I did. It isn't as safe to do surgery on unhealthy fat people.
Nothing to do with the non-existent privatisation of the NHS - just a warning to those obese people that they need to think about their health before it is too late.
Completey different to what WAS being suggested.

I was asked to lose weight before my surgery last year.
I wasn't DENIED surgery because I was obese.

And yes, it does have to do with privatisation, this trust is short of money - because millions is being wasted every day on the "internal market", and the Tories are cutting spending by £22 billion by 2020.
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Re: Obese people banned from routine surgery

Post by Megamixer » Sun Sep 04, 2016 3:16 pm

Not wanting to get involved in the main debate/issue but it does annoy me with all the obese people who take the p!ss and receive a load of treatment/hospital time for something that they are unwilling to challenge themselves.

I know somebody who thinks it's okay to consume a ton of sugary products then take a load of prescribed diabetes pills to 'balance it out' :roll:
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Re: Obese people banned from routine surgery

Post by Helensification » Sun Sep 04, 2016 4:07 pm

I don't normally join in such an inflammatory debate but being obese felt I had to say something. I feel some of the comments expressed in this thread are extremely offensive.

Yes I take tablets for a number of condition, 2 of which could probably be improved by losing weight (the others aren't caused or affected by weight).

Many people on here know me and will also know that I am not a 'lazy lard arse' as certain people on here are intimating all obese people are.

I work damned hard and do not take sick days like many 'thin' people I know. I pay higher rate National Insurance so I contribute more to the system than many people. I do not claim any benefits from the system I pay into but do occasionally need NHS treatment. So why should this be removed from me.

I rarely drink alcohol,do not smoke or take drugs but yes I often eat the 'wrong' items. I don't eat excessively regardless of what people might think all obese people do but rarely exercise which is probably my big weakness.

If I needed an op and was recommended to lose weight due to the high risk of an anaesthetic to an obese person then that is one thing but to say I can't have it is another.

How far does this go?

If anything self inflicted or that could have been prevented becomes exempt, what about, smokers, drug takers, alcoholics, extreme sports enthusiasts, self-harmers, suicidal people, etc.

Or let's go even more extreme, don't treat people who get drunk on a night out, hurt themselves dancing, ride motorbikes, cycling, etc and let's not forget how dangerous is working out in the gym or other keep fit activities, sprained ankles, broken bones, pulled muscles.

Ridiculous, yes of course it is, but once you start being selective of who can access the NHS and for what reasons then it is a slippery downward spiral to the end of the NHS.

Stop being fattist and see the bigger picture. If only healthy fit people can use the NHS then it won't be required.
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Re: Obese people banned from routine surgery

Post by HalcyonDaze00 » Sun Sep 04, 2016 4:26 pm

but once you start being selective of who can access the NHS and for what reasons then it is a slippery downward spiral to the end of the NHS.
hopefully that's where we will get to one day, the NHS is a crumbling relic, once it is privatised and people have to start paying they may at last start taking responsibility for their actions.

it makes me laugh how people will happily pay for everything else in their lives - holidays, gadgets, luxuries, drink, cigs, whatever, but then they scream blue murder at the thought of having to pay for their health.

let's privatise it all and have those that use it the most pay the most - whether they be drunken A & E yobs, 50 a day smokers, or obsessive eaters.

this country has far too many people taking the p1ss and it's high time they were dealt with.

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Re: Obese people banned from routine surgery

Post by The Beans » Sun Sep 04, 2016 4:29 pm

Helensification wrote:I don't normally join in such an inflammatory debate but being obese felt I had to say something. I feel some of the comments expressed in this thread are extremely offensive.

Yes I take tablets for a number of condition, 2 of which could probably be improved by losing weight (the others aren't caused or affected by weight).

Many people on here know me and will also know that I am not a 'lazy lard arse' as certain people on here are intimating all obese people are.

I work damned hard and do not take sick days like many 'thin' people I know. I pay higher rate National Insurance so I contribute more to the system than many people. I do not claim any benefits from the system I pay into but do occasionally need NHS treatment. So why should this be removed from me.

I rarely drink alcohol,do not smoke or take drugs but yes I often eat the 'wrong' items. I don't eat excessively regardless of what people might think all obese people do but rarely exercise which is probably my big weakness.

If I needed an op and was recommended to lose weight due to the high risk of an anaesthetic to an obese person then that is one thing but to say I can't have it is another.

How far does this go?

If anything self inflicted or that could have been prevented becomes exempt, what about, smokers, drug takers, alcoholics, extreme sports enthusiasts, self-harmers, suicidal people, etc.

Or let's go even more extreme, don't treat people who get drunk on a night out, hurt themselves dancing, ride motorbikes, cycling, etc and let's not forget how dangerous is working out in the gym or other keep fit activities, sprained ankles, broken bones, pulled muscles.

Ridiculous, yes of course it is, but once you start being selective of who can access the NHS and for what reasons then it is a slippery downward spiral to the end of the NHS.

Stop being fattist and see the bigger picture. If only healthy fit people can use the NHS then it won't be required.
Yeah, that's it in a nutshell. It's everyone or no one.

Having said that, I must admit I want the NHS gone. I've worked all my life and I'm tired of paying for all the non-contributors. Thoroughly tired of it. The entire welfare state can kiss my arse these days tbh. Right now though, the NHS is supposed to be available to all. That's the basis on which the government takes my money from me. At least, that's what it used to be. These days, who knows?
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Re: Obese people banned from routine surgery

Post by DPrinny » Sun Sep 04, 2016 4:31 pm

The ones that want it privatised use private doctors anyway and are usually those that run the country

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Re: Obese people banned from routine surgery

Post by flatapex » Sun Sep 04, 2016 5:12 pm

HalcyonDaze00 wrote:
but once you start being selective of who can access the NHS and for what reasons then it is a slippery downward spiral to the end of the NHS.
hopefully that's where we will get to one day, the NHS is a crumbling relic, once it is privatised and people have to start paying they may at last start taking responsibility for their actions.

it makes me laugh how people will happily pay for everything else in their lives - holidays, gadgets, luxuries, drink, cigs, whatever, but then they scream blue murder at the thought of having to pay for their health.

let's privatise it all and have those that use it the most pay the most - whether they be drunken A & E yobs, 50 a day smokers, or obsessive eaters.

this country has far too many people taking the p1ss and it's high time they were dealt with.
right, lets clear this up (as someone that worked in medical insurance, I know what I am talking about)

The NHS is at capacity, it isnt because of the obese, or anything else, its because there are very few state run health services in the world, we lead where others follow and a lot of countries wish their health system was a patch on ours. Then again until you have been taken seriously ill abroad- i.e a cancer scare abroad like I had in 2008, its not something that is well known.

Like I said, I worked in private medical insurance, I worked out that I couldn't afford insurance for myself and mrs apex, if we sold our car, didnt have a holiday or any luxuries we might just be able to afford for one of us to have cover. anything pre existing would not be covered, and that means anything we have been to the doctors for within a set number of years. not covered. ever.

remember my cancer scare that i mentioned above? it was my first of 2 so far, the first means that one day i will probably need a kidney transplant, i am determined to bring my bmi down from 28 to below 20, if/when i need that, the last thing i need is a doc saying 'you need to be lighter first'
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Re: Obese people banned from routine surgery

Post by The Beans » Sun Sep 04, 2016 5:22 pm

flatapex wrote: The NHS is at capacity, it isnt because of the obese, or anything else, its because there are very few state run health services in the world, we lead where others follow and a lot of countries wish their health system was a patch on ours. Then again until you have been taken seriously ill abroad- i.e a cancer scare abroad like I had in 2008, its not something that is well known.

Like I said, I worked in private medical insurance, I worked out that I couldn't afford insurance for myself and mrs apex, if we sold our car, didnt have a holiday or any luxuries we might just be able to afford for one of us to have cover. anything pre existing would not be covered, and that means anything we have been to the doctors for within a set number of years. not covered. ever.

remember my cancer scare that i mentioned above? it was my first of 2 so far, the first means that one day i will probably need a kidney transplant, i am determined to bring my bmi down from 28 to below 20, if/when i need that, the last thing i need is a doc saying 'you need to be lighter first'
The NHS is at capacity because most people who use it don't frickin' pay anything towards it!

Would you be able to afford medical cover if you weren't paying all that tax we're forced to pay in whether we use the NHS or not?
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Re: Obese people banned from routine surgery

Post by flatapex » Sun Sep 04, 2016 5:27 pm

The Beans wrote:
flatapex wrote: The NHS is at capacity, it isnt because of the obese, or anything else, its because there are very few state run health services in the world, we lead where others follow and a lot of countries wish their health system was a patch on ours. Then again until you have been taken seriously ill abroad- i.e a cancer scare abroad like I had in 2008, its not something that is well known.

Like I said, I worked in private medical insurance, I worked out that I couldn't afford insurance for myself and mrs apex, if we sold our car, didnt have a holiday or any luxuries we might just be able to afford for one of us to have cover. anything pre existing would not be covered, and that means anything we have been to the doctors for within a set number of years. not covered. ever.

remember my cancer scare that i mentioned above? it was my first of 2 so far, the first means that one day i will probably need a kidney transplant, i am determined to bring my bmi down from 28 to below 20, if/when i need that, the last thing i need is a doc saying 'you need to be lighter first'
The NHS is at capacity because most people who use it don't frickin' pay anything towards it!

Would you be able to afford medical cover if you weren't paying all that tax we're forced to pay in whether we use the NHS or not?
Honestly? no.
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Re: Obese people banned from routine surgery

Post by Sephiroth81 » Sun Sep 04, 2016 5:29 pm

flatapex and Helensification - very well written and interesting posts.

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Re: Obese people banned from routine surgery

Post by Megamixer » Sun Sep 04, 2016 5:34 pm

Might help if somebody could post up the average cost of decent medical cover plus the % of tax paid that is supposed to go towards the NHS so we can make a comparison?

EDIT: I just dug out my 2014-15 tax summary and it says I contributed £362 to health in that tax year. I'd like to see how that stacks up against a medical cover plan out of interest.

I get a feeling that dumping NHS and paying into private plans might benefit people in higher paying jobs more than anything though I could be wrong.
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Re: Obese people banned from routine surgery

Post by HalcyonDaze00 » Sun Sep 04, 2016 5:50 pm

The NHS is at capacity, it isnt because of the obese, or anything else, its because there are very few state run health services in the world, we lead where others follow and a lot of countries wish their health system was a patch on ours
I'm sorry, how does this explain why the NHS is at capacity? are you saying it's health tourists clogging up the NHS?

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Re: Obese people banned from routine surgery

Post by English Invader » Sun Sep 04, 2016 5:58 pm

Megamixer wrote:I get a feeling that dumping NHS and paying into private plans might benefit people in higher paying jobs more than anything though I could be wrong.
As I mentioned earlier, the abolition of the NHS would send medical costs through the roof as there would be no government body to drive down prices and the individual would be completely at the mercy of big business (which is the current situation in the US).

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Re: Obese people banned from routine surgery

Post by flatapex » Sun Sep 04, 2016 6:23 pm

HalcyonDaze00 wrote:
The NHS is at capacity, it isnt because of the obese, or anything else, its because there are very few state run health services in the world, we lead where others follow and a lot of countries wish their health system was a patch on ours
I'm sorry, how does this explain why the NHS is at capacity? are you saying it's health tourists clogging up the NHS?
I'm saying we cannot compare the nhs to any other state run health service, anything else state run we could/can.
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Re: Obese people banned from routine surgery

Post by RetroAerosmith » Mon Sep 05, 2016 3:44 am

Absolutely there are many other drains on the NHS for sure, but i think the easiest one to tackle instantly is weight issues. In newspapers and poverty pron programmes we see the apparently poorer people moaning about the price of fruit and veg yet guzzling down full fat redbull or ordering pizzas with a cigarette in their gobs.

Its not a jealousy thing but my other half gran is 90 and she needed a stairlift fitted to help her go to the toilet, because she has her late husbands pension she was refused, her next door neighbour with 2 kids with "adhd" allow them to have everything, new car, rent paid, a taxi to take the kids to school etc, then there is the mother herself that has a mobility scooter and the husband is her carer.....
Tidying the magazines in work the weekend there is a story about someone who is being "fed" by her partner who has a fetish for fat, plus a 60stone woman saying she loves her fat and wont stop for anyone, yet if something happens to these the extra costs including specially made seats/wheelchairs/ambulances fire service etc that are needed is staggering.

I dont care who it offends as im guilty of it myself...the reason why im overweight is because i eat too much of the bad stuff while not moving to work it off. i understand "some" medication makes people put on weight BUT its we are what we eat...and some take the urune and it needs a wake up scare somewhere.

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