EU in or out? Today's THE day

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How did you vote in the EU referendum?

Poll ended at Sat Jul 02, 2016 7:43 pm

I voted to STAY IN
30
49%
I voted to LEAVE
24
39%
I drew a large penis on the voting slip (or similar)
3
5%
I did not vote
4
7%
 
Total votes: 61

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Sephiroth81
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Re: EU in or out? Today's THE day

Post by Sephiroth81 » Sat Jun 25, 2016 7:43 am

pratty wrote:
Right, this is a debate we needed to have in my opinion, I don't think we should avoid it because it makes some people uneasy or angry.
It's finger pointing from one side to another claiming foul play or bad behaviour based on an a tiny minority who can't control their emotions. It's a great distraction from the more pressing and important issues.

There will be no one happier with this story than this reporter, as she will get publicity from it and push her own agenda. It's transparent and sadly what happens in politics regardless of side. Not saying it should be hushed or silenced, but it's tantamount to a bit of juicy gossip and hardly reflective of the main issues.

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RodimusPrime
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Re: EU in or out? Today's THE day

Post by RodimusPrime » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:14 am

Sephiroth81 wrote:
pratty wrote: Or are we to conlude that political disagreement and debate itself is bad and should be prevented because a minority can't behave and act responsibly?
No, we conclude that the minority can't act responsibly and not use any minority to distract from the real issues and use as some sort of smear campaign.

You mean like you did when the minority of 1 person killed an mp and used it for your own personal agenda. You mean just like that.

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mrmessy
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Re: EU in or out? Today's THE day

Post by mrmessy » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:41 am

I read a few articles a few months back that were (supposed to be) independnt and informative. I came to the conclusion that to stay was the better option.

I work with a load of quite well off middle-aged women from the north Worcestershire area and I was surprised to hear they were pretty much all voting leave. Their reasons were mainly "to stop these immigrants".
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Shinobi
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Re: EU in or out? Today's THE day

Post by Shinobi » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:44 am

RodimusPrime wrote:
Sephiroth81 wrote:
pratty wrote: Or are we to conlude that political disagreement and debate itself is bad and should be prevented because a minority can't behave and act responsibly?
No, we conclude that the minority can't act responsibly and not use any minority to distract from the real issues and use as some sort of smear campaign.

You mean like you did when the minority of 1 person killed an mp and used it for your own personal agenda. You mean just like that.

Agreed. Seph is one of those famously irrational people who believe in democracy, except when it results in his personal "voice" not being the majority. Split countries by generation, teenagers north, young adults east, families west, and Something like 'Logans run' effecting everybody over 30 who voted leave..

Maybe we should have an RG Sephexit vote, probably more one sided then Robot Chicken one sided fist fights

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Oh ho ho, Boba's got himself a lightsaber now. {He pulls out a blue one too} Oh ho ho ho, make it two. Ooh red and blue! When they're put together what's it make? Purple rain!!! {He slashes two ewoks while one tries to escape} Oh ho ho, no he's gettin' away. What's this button here? This long-range missle couldn't possibly be it could it? {He presses the button and the missle kills the escaping ewok} Oh ho ho quarterback is toast.
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HalcyonDaze00
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Re: EU in or out? Today's THE day

Post by HalcyonDaze00 » Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:01 am

the left have always been afraid of the ballot box, intolerant fascists who cannot cope with people thinking differently to them.

comedy gold over at the guardian :lol: :lol: hours of entertainment reading the comments on the various hysterical articles. :D

and what of jelly corbyn? the irony being that most of the working class heartlands (people he is supposed to represent) voted to leave, had he campaigned to leave (and historically he has been anti eu) he would have been in a much stronger position than he is now.

Cripper2
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Re: EU in or out? Today's THE day

Post by Cripper2 » Sat Jun 25, 2016 10:41 am

Gisela Stuart would make a fantastic leader for the Labour party. Came across as calm and sensible in the debates whilst others were mud slinging. Ticked all the right boxes for the leave campaign - a woman, foreign and not a Conservative. Stuck to her convictions whilst Corbyn abandoned his. I am sure she would do a better job of negotiating the Brexit than Boris

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Megamixer
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Re: EU in or out? Today's THE day

Post by Megamixer » Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:22 pm

Matt_B wrote:I think Cameron should look on the bright side.

He'll probably go down in history now as the worst PM since Eden, but at least the thing he'll be remembered most for isn't sticking his tool in a pig any more. :wink:
Personally I would say that Gordon Brown and Tony Blair were worse. Corbyn would be even worse if he ever got near No.10 so I hope the Labour party get him on the scrapheap.

I was no huge fan of Dave at all but he was the lesser of all evils at the last election (Clegg standing no chance and Milliband being a joke).

Where has the Devil/Dracula/George Osborn been anyway?
Retro is a state of mind, and cares not for your puny concepts like dates and calendars.

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Sephiroth81
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Re: EU in or out? Today's THE day

Post by Sephiroth81 » Sat Jun 25, 2016 4:17 pm

RodimusPrime wrote:

You mean like you did when the minority of 1 person killed an mp and used it for your own personal agenda. You mean just like that.
I knew full well it was hypocritical to use it to make a point and I knew people would call me out on it (I even said this at the time), I just thought it was very very interesting that the usual suspects were absent from that thread (because basically the perpetrator wasn't an immigrant or muslim). I told you this already in response to a private message you sent me RodimusPrime - but nice of you to try and score points over me on the forum again. :P I thought we were besties now!
Shinobi wrote:

Agreed. Seph is one of those famously irrational people who believe in democracy, except when it results in his personal "voice" not being the majority. Split countries by generation, teenagers north, young adults east, families west, and Something like 'Logans run' effecting everybody over 30 who voted leave..

Maybe we should have an RG Sephexit vote, probably more one sided then Robot Chicken one sided fist fights
Shinobi, I have had people on this forum private message me to tell me to go easy on you in the past because of your own personal problems and issues (which incidentally you have been open about on this forum, so its not some sort of private revelation here). So I've let you spout your bizarre rants and random personal attacks on me because I actually just feel sorry for you. Carry on all you like champ.

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HalcyonDaze00
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Re: EU in or out? Today's THE day

Post by HalcyonDaze00 » Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:09 pm

after the ludicrous petition we know have some MP's saying the vote should be ignored! :lol:

good grief! are we living in North Korea?

the liberal fascists, not happy with a vote unless it's a vote they want, they are not nearly as keen on democracy as they make out.

as groups in other EU countries push for a chance to leave, what are the liberal fascists going to do then?

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Matt_B
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Re: EU in or out? Today's THE day

Post by Matt_B » Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:37 pm

HalcyonDaze00 wrote:after the ludicrous petition we know have some MP's saying the vote should be ignored! :lol:

good grief! are we living in North Korea?

the liberal fascists, not happy with a vote unless it's a vote they want, they are not nearly as keen on democracy as they make out.

as groups in other EU countries push for a chance to leave, what are the liberal fascists going to do then?
He's an opposition MP, and the point of having a loyal opposition is to represent the views of those who aren't part of the majority. Practically nothing in Westminster happens without someone speaking out against it, and I think that's a good thing. However, even if he's technically correct - and the referendum isn't in any way binding - the government would still be ill-advised not to open negotiations for leaving the EU.

If there's a time for a second referendum it'll be when the actual terms of leaving the EU are finalized. I'd expect they'll be very different from what the Leave campaign have promised and some people might want to change their minds at that point, possibly both ways. Then again, that's not strictly necessary; the government has all the powers it needs to proceed from here, so I'd be happy enough to leave them to get on with it.

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the_hawk
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Re: EU in or out? Today's THE day

Post by the_hawk » Mon Jun 27, 2016 1:34 am

Box A contains a boring sandwich, Box B has some chocolate

Box B please

I lied box B contains poo

Can I change my mind?

No, that would be undemocratic.

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Matt_B
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Re: EU in or out? Today's THE day

Post by Matt_B » Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:49 am

Well, it's not so much poo and chocolate, but from what BoJo, Hannan and Gove have been saying they're looking at a relationship with the EU similar to what Norway and Switzerland currently have. So, the country would forfeit its seats on the European Commission, Council and Parliament and there'd be a halt on further European integration. However, the UK would continue to have access to the single market, pay into EU structural funds and the current freedom of movement rules will apply. That's just enough concessions towards the Remain camp for me, so I'd be happy to throw my lot in with that for the time being.

The only question is whether the EU will be buying it or Juncker's "out is out" will be their line. Contrary to popular belief though, he's not an unelected dictator and the European Parliament are quite capable of recalling him, or simply just telling him to shut up, if they don't like his rhetoric. I'd like to think that the member states will want to follow the path of least resistance but there'll still be a lot of details to thrash out.

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Sephiroth81
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Re: EU in or out? Today's THE day

Post by Sephiroth81 » Mon Jun 27, 2016 6:22 am

Matt_B wrote:Well, it's not so much poo and chocolate, but from what BoJo, Hannan and Gove have been saying they're looking at a relationship with the EU similar to what Norway and Switzerland currently have. So, the country would forfeit its seats on the European Commission, Council and Parliament and there'd be a halt on further European integration. However, the UK would continue to have access to the single market, pay into EU structural funds and the current freedom of movement rules will apply. That's just enough concessions towards the Remain camp for me, so I'd be happy to throw my lot in with that for the time being.
This surely is the only sound route, as we have very little to negotiate with with our economy and currency in free fall, no government in place, and an opposition also in turmoil.

So we are essentially going back in to negotiate an inferior deal with less influence (but a few less laws, so not all bad for the UK govt - whether thats good for the UK population remains to be seen), and still end up with freedom of movement - making a mockery of many of the millions who probably voted assuming this would be an end to that. :?

Worst case scenario is that we don't have access to the single market, and impose immigration controls that so many people ultimately voted for. The current 3m+ EU citizens living here will surely get some sort of upgraded/amended passport (even Farage has said things won't change for those that are already here) where they can still live/travel/work freely around the EU AND UK as they can now. Which could lead to the conclusion that the people that suffer the most are the UK born nationals who will lose their EU citizenship/passports (that at least 16m did enjoy) and ultimately have less rights than the EU population currently residing and working here. Still, at least we could stop more EU citizens coming in to help create wealth and prosperity...and their stupid superior bi-lingual skills which seems to annoy people so much. :D

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theantmeister
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Re: EU in or out? Today's THE day

Post by theantmeister » Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:01 am

Sephiroth81 wrote:So we are essentially going back in to negotiate an inferior deal with less influence (but a few less laws, so not all bad for the UK govt - whether thats good for the UK population remains to be seen), and still end up with freedom of movement - making a mockery of many of the millions who probably voted assuming this would be an end to that. :?

Worst case scenario is that we don't have access to the single market, and impose immigration controls that so many people ultimately voted for. The current 3m+ EU citizens living here will surely get some sort of upgraded/amended passport (even Farage has said things won't change for those that are already here) where they can still live/travel/work freely around the EU AND UK as they can now. Which could lead to the conclusion that the people that suffer the most are the UK born nationals who will lose their EU citizenship/passports (that at least 16m did enjoy) and ultimately have less rights than the EU population currently residing and working here. Still, at least we could stop more EU citizens coming in to help create wealth and prosperity...and their stupid superior bi-lingual skills which seems to annoy people so much. :D
Sounds good to me! :P

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Sephiroth81
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Re: EU in or out? Today's THE day

Post by Sephiroth81 » Mon Jun 27, 2016 8:30 am

theantmeister wrote: Sounds good to me! :P
Yep, we'll get increased EU migration for the next 2 years as all of this is thrashed out, and then after that we'll be in the same position as Norway and Switzerland - so have a few less EU laws to follow, but the same rules of freedom of movement. So our multi-lingual friends from all over the continent will still come over same as before to further irritate those that want to blame migrants for this countries problems. We just won't be part of the club to veto Turkey's membership that the brexit campaign ramped the fear up of over the past few weeks.

Those that voted brexit based on EU immigration will be sorely disappointed. Those that voted Brexit for less EU regulations will perhaps have something to cheer, but not quite 100% independence.

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