EU in or out? June 23rd (Now with POLL)

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Right now - prior to the camaigne for In/Out...

Poll ended at Mon Mar 21, 2016 12:52 pm

Stay IN the EU
24
49%
Leave the EU
21
43%
I really don't give a toss
4
8%
 
Total votes: 49

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The Beans
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Re: EU in or out? June 23rd (Now with POLL)

Post by The Beans » Mon Feb 22, 2016 2:38 pm

joefish wrote:
The Beans wrote:I'll be voting for whichever camp bullshits the least in order to convince. Right now I'm "out", mainly because the "in" crusaders are the ones first out of the blocks with the alarmist crap and the outrageous spin. Over time I'm sure the Brexit squad will match their nonsense.
But the whole issue has only arisen because of alarmist crap from the bullshitters. If Farage and his ilk had kept their old-boy racist bile to themselves we wouldn't even be having the conversation!
Steady on.
The Farage fear of invasion is more than offset by the leftie's claims that migrants save the country, if not the entire world, and we can't have enough of them.

We're having this conversation because the truth is actually somewhere inbetween and Cameron was daft enough to promise to let us decide whether we let europe sort it out for us or not.

Cameron obviously thought it was a banker that we'd vote for europe but he's forgotten that these are the bastards who tried to straighten our cucumbers.

And here we are. For months on end.
If it's slower than me, dumber than me and it tastes good ... tough titty.

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joefish
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Re: EU in or out? June 23rd (Now with POLL)

Post by joefish » Mon Feb 22, 2016 3:06 pm

We're having this conversation because Cameron and the Tories were so afraid of losing right-wing votes to UKIP that they adopted some of their policies, namely the possibility of separating from Europe.

It seems to me some perfectly rational people are trying to claim that freedom of trade and movement is of overall benefit to everyone. And that close political alliances and co-operation can inhibit international crime and prevent wars. If that sounds like the 'loony left' to you then I'll be asking someone else for directions...

The sensible case to be made against the EU is that it's an ineffective organisation that is too liberal in applying its regulations to places where it's inappropriate, and far too slow and not tough enough on enforcement when it is needed. And at the same time not transparent and accountable enough to the satisfaction of its citizens.

pratty
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Re: EU in or out? June 23rd (Now with POLL)

Post by pratty » Mon Feb 22, 2016 3:36 pm

Regardelss of Cameron's personal motivations, if EU membership is as important and as contentious an issue as it apparently is, then shouldn't any governemnt put the issue up for debate and even a vote? Surely this is the point of democracy.

Do pro-EU people think it's possible we can have our cake and eat it to a significant degree, still have the majority of EU benefits without the negatives of EU membership? After all surely this is what our leaders should be striving for, maximising the positives for the UK and minimising the negatives. As I said earlier if the benefits of EU cooperation are as mutually beneficial as people say, then surely EU countries will want to cooperate with us, EU member or not.
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The Beans
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Re: EU in or out? June 23rd (Now with POLL)

Post by The Beans » Mon Feb 22, 2016 3:43 pm

joefish wrote:It seems to me some perfectly rational people are trying to claim that freedom of trade and movement is of overall benefit to everyone. And that close political alliances and co-operation can inhibit international crime and prevent wars. If that sounds like the 'loony left' to you then I'll be asking someone else for directions...
That doesn't sound like the loony left to me. But then I didn't use that phrase in my post. Although I was simply pointing out the ridiculous nature of extremes anyway.

Branding Farage "and his ilk" as old-boy racists sounds nicely loony left though. Where are these perfectly rational people again? :lol:
If it's slower than me, dumber than me and it tastes good ... tough titty.

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David
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Re: EU in or out? June 23rd (Now with POLL)

Post by David » Mon Feb 22, 2016 3:48 pm

The minute someone used the word "Brexit" to try and appeal to the brain dead reality TV crowd I stopped listening

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Matt_B
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Re: EU in or out? June 23rd (Now with POLL)

Post by Matt_B » Mon Feb 22, 2016 4:32 pm

Could those people, who think that Britain leaving the EU will actually be good for the economy, please explain why Sterling is currently getting hammered on the forex markets at the mere possibility of it?

It's looking like it's going to be a nervous few months for expats who have investments back there, at any rate.

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Nemesis
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Re: EU in or out? June 23rd (Now with POLL)

Post by Nemesis » Mon Feb 22, 2016 5:32 pm

Matt_B wrote:Could those people, who think that Britain leaving the EU will actually be good for the economy, please explain why Sterling is currently getting hammered on the forex markets at the mere possibility of it?

It's looking like it's going to be a nervous few months for expats who have investments back there, at any rate.
Markets ALWAYS respond badly to uncertainty. This is nothing new. The pound strengthened straight away when Scotland decided to stay within the Union.
Oh and if you want to do little social experiments on our forum don't post about them on your own you plum - Darren@Retro Gamer

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Sephiroth81
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Re: EU in or out? June 23rd (Now with POLL)

Post by Sephiroth81 » Mon Feb 22, 2016 6:55 pm

Nemesis wrote: Markets ALWAYS respond badly to uncertainty. This is nothing new. The pound strengthened straight away when Scotland decided to stay within the Union.
One can only speculate how the currency would be had Scotland decided to leave the UK, rather than go with the status quo as it did in the end. It is fair to say that if the UK remains within the EU, the pound will likely rebound, but who knows what would happen if we leave. Its all a bit of a gamble.

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Elgin_McQueen
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Re: EU in or out? June 23rd (Now with POLL)

Post by Elgin_McQueen » Mon Feb 22, 2016 7:11 pm

David wrote:The minute someone used the word "Brexit" to try and appeal to the brain dead reality TV crowd I stopped listening
God, YES!!! Cringe everytime I hear someone on tv say that.
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RetroBob
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Re: EU in or out? June 23rd (Now with POLL)

Post by RetroBob » Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:08 am

I am still undecided but already sick of the coverage.
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Nemesis
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Re: EU in or out? June 23rd (Now with POLL)

Post by Nemesis » Tue Feb 23, 2016 3:19 am

Sephiroth81 wrote:
Nemesis wrote: Markets ALWAYS respond badly to uncertainty. This is nothing new. The pound strengthened straight away when Scotland decided to stay within the Union.
One can only speculate how the currency would be had Scotland decided to leave the UK, rather than go with the status quo as it did in the end. It is fair to say that if the UK remains within the EU, the pound will likely rebound, but who knows what would happen if we leave. Its all a bit of a gamble.
You can speculate because there are usually trends to these kind of things. Just like shares, that go up as well as down. Even if shares have a really bad day, they end up recovering to previously held levels after a while. The pound isn't going to drop to Zimbabwean levels if the UK leaves the EU.

There would be a drop for the uncertainty and again for entering the unknown but once this has passed, the currency will eventually recover when we (& the markets) realise that the country hasn't ended because we've left the EU.
Oh and if you want to do little social experiments on our forum don't post about them on your own you plum - Darren@Retro Gamer

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Sephiroth81
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Re: EU in or out? June 23rd (Now with POLL)

Post by Sephiroth81 » Tue Feb 23, 2016 4:07 am

Nemesis wrote:
There would be a drop for the uncertainty and again for entering the unknown but once this has passed, the currency will eventually recover when we (& the markets) realise that the country hasn't ended because we've left the EU.
Eventual recovery is speculation, and therefore a risk to many businesses and individuals. Its a good thing that it won't drag on for long (although 4 months is a long time for uncertainty). We know the issues and the benefits that being in the EU brings, we don't outside of it. I don't think its a risk worth taking, even given the worst possible scaremongering on the issues we face. Publicity opportunists like George Galloway, Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage at least will get a good platform for the next few months for more exposure.

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Treguard
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Re: EU in or out? June 23rd (Now with POLL)

Post by Treguard » Tue Feb 23, 2016 6:06 am

Nemesis wrote:
Sephiroth81 wrote:
Nemesis wrote: Markets ALWAYS respond badly to uncertainty. This is nothing new. The pound strengthened straight away when Scotland decided to stay within the Union.
One can only speculate how the currency would be had Scotland decided to leave the UK, rather than go with the status quo as it did in the end. It is fair to say that if the UK remains within the EU, the pound will likely rebound, but who knows what would happen if we leave. Its all a bit of a gamble.
You can speculate because there are usually trends to these kind of things. Just like shares, that go up as well as down. Even if shares have a really bad day, they end up recovering to previously held levels after a while. The pound isn't going to drop to Zimbabwean levels if the UK leaves the EU.

There would be a drop for the uncertainty and again for entering the unknown but once this has passed, the currency will eventually recover when we (& the markets) realise that the country hasn't ended because we've left the EU.
All these predictions are based on precedent though, and the nearest precedent we would have if we left the EU would be when the UK left the ERM in 92, and we know what happened then- interest rates at 15%. If it carries on sliding we'll see interest rate rises, which means mortgage payments rising and, most likely another housing crash. I'm already not getting any better than 1.3070 for the Euro and 1.4429 for the dollar. It's grim.

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Nemesis
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Re: EU in or out? June 23rd (Now with POLL)

Post by Nemesis » Wed Feb 24, 2016 3:19 am

Treguard wrote:
All these predictions are based on precedent though, and the nearest precedent we would have if we left the EU would be when the UK left the ERM in 92, and we know what happened then- interest rates at 15%. If it carries on sliding we'll see interest rate rises, which means mortgage payments rising and, most likely another housing crash. I'm already not getting any better than 1.3070 for the Euro and 1.4429 for the dollar. It's grim.
On a personal level, interest rates at 15% sounds great to me as a saver considering the paltry return we've been getting for several years now. Another housing crash looks likely anyway to me, prices have gone back to silly levels again and interest rates can't stay low forever.

However, I haven't voted in this pole yet as I'm currently undecided, however, I can see a lot of parallels between this referendum and the Scottish Independence referendum that took place. I strongly suspect the result will be the same too, perhaps more 60/40 or 65/35 in favour of staying in the EU because when it comes to the crunch, the majority of people will go with what they know rather than stepping into the unknown. In the meantime, there'll be the usual cries of scaremongering and such until the polls are take place.
Oh and if you want to do little social experiments on our forum don't post about them on your own you plum - Darren@Retro Gamer

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The Beans
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Re: EU in or out? June 23rd (Now with POLL)

Post by The Beans » Wed Feb 24, 2016 4:13 am

Nemesis wrote: However, I haven't voted in this pole yet as I'm currently undecided, however, I can see a lot of parallels between this referendum and the Scottish Independence referendum that took place. I strongly suspect the result will be the same too, perhaps more 60/40 or 65/35 in favour of staying in the EU because when it comes to the crunch, the majority of people will go with what they know rather than stepping into the unknown. In the meantime, there'll be the usual cries of scaremongering and such until the polls are take place.
That's my take on it. We'll vote to stay in simply because most people prefer the devil they know. It's just going to be a question of how much the Out people can get the knickers of the In folk in a twist before the foregone conclusion is reached.
If it's slower than me, dumber than me and it tastes good ... tough titty.

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