Apple (Tim Cook) vs the FBI, who's right and who's wrong?

When the other folders just won't do!

Moderators: mknott, NickThorpe, lcarlson, Darran@Retro Gamer, MMohammed

User avatar
Nemesis
Posts: 1967
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2009 9:55 am
Location: Norwich, UK

Apple (Tim Cook) vs the FBI, who's right and who's wrong?

Post by Nemesis » Fri Feb 19, 2016 3:13 pm

So, as the subject heading suggests, you have probably heard or read that the FBI has requested Apple come up with a viable method of accessing the data on a terrorists iPhone without erasing it forever with invalid pin code guesses.

Depending on your views, you either absolutely believe that Apple should do the right thing, and provide a bespoke version of iOS for this one phone to enable access. Or you believe that Apple (& other Tech giants such as Google, Sony, Microsoft etc) are within their rights, as their business depends on the safety and privacy of personal data, to refuse the FBI/governments request.

This is a very interesting dilemma since Apple has until the 26th Feb to formally respond to the court order and what the FBI are asking for is no small thing. Effectively, creating a master key that could be used for all iPhones, not just this one phone, which if fell into the wrong hands, would mean that anybody/everybody that has an iPhone could be at risk from a nefarious individual who had access to this key. Considering the hacking of Sony, Microsoft and most recently TalkTalk, security of information is very important in maintaining consumer trust.

So, is Apple right to refuse in protecting consumers data or should they provide a bespoke version of iOS regardless of the potential risks?
Oh and if you want to do little social experiments on our forum don't post about them on your own you plum - Darren@Retro Gamer

User avatar
Elgin_McQueen
Posts: 6769
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:08 am
Location: Elgin, Scotland

Re: Apple (Tim Cook) vs the FBI, who's right and who's wrong

Post by Elgin_McQueen » Sat Feb 20, 2016 12:48 am

It'd be one thing if they were simply being asked to unlock the phone, but am I right in understanding, they're actually asking Apple to create a way of hacking in to the phone? I mean, they're asking them to create something that doesn't actually exist for them. That's something they can't be asked to do, surely? It's not like they're asking for something they already have in their possession.
TMR wrote: And you wonder why you're being labelled as elitist... you couldn't be any more elite if you were a wireframe.

Image

User avatar
Matt_B
Posts: 5511
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:30 am
Location: 5 minutes from the beach, 30 seconds from the pub

Re: Apple (Tim Cook) vs the FBI, who's right and who's wrong

Post by Matt_B » Sat Feb 20, 2016 1:45 am

Yep. It's an understandable request for this particular case, but it would set a dangerous precedent to allow them to do this with anyone's phone. The consequences of this would be downright Orwellian.

The metadata alone, which they already have access to, should be more than enough for keeping tabs on terrorist suspects.

User avatar
Sel Feena
Posts: 3569
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 6:38 pm

Re: Apple (Tim Cook) vs the FBI, who's right and who's wrong

Post by Sel Feena » Sat Feb 20, 2016 2:39 am

Well done Apple, hope they stick to their guns on this.
Image

User avatar
nokgod
Posts: 9627
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:57 pm
Location: The Blackcountry

Re: Apple (Tim Cook) vs the FBI, who's right and who's wrong

Post by nokgod » Sat Feb 20, 2016 4:33 am

I don't understand the point of the FBI asking for this. All that will happen is that terrorists/people with stuff to hide will shift to an alternative phone/OS or communication method if Apple are forced to comply. Its just giving bad guys a heads up. Serves no useful purpose, imo and is just unworkable and plain stupid.

I've never had any particular love for apple but i hope they win this.
Image
sscott wrote:I thought Tomb Raider was the best game of last gen (and I fuck1n hate the Tomb Raider series!)

User avatar
The Beans
Posts: 3635
Joined: Sat May 19, 2012 12:18 pm

Re: Apple (Tim Cook) vs the FBI, who's right and who's wrong

Post by The Beans » Sat Feb 20, 2016 5:01 am

Matt_B wrote:Yep. It's an understandable request for this particular case, but it would set a dangerous precedent to allow them to do this with anyone's phone. The consequences of this would be downright Orwellian.
I agree with this, while at the same time being uncomfortable with a corporation effectively telling a government to get stuffed. It's going to be interesting to see how it all turns out.
If it's slower than me, dumber than me and it tastes good ... tough titty.

User avatar
necronom
Posts: 5648
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:23 pm
Location: Middlesbrough

Re: Apple (Tim Cook) vs the FBI, who's right and who's wrong

Post by necronom » Sat Feb 20, 2016 5:57 am

I don't know the whole story on this, but couldn't Apple have one computer in the world in a secure room, with no internet access, that can be used to get into an iPad in extreme situations? A room with cameras, security codes, etc, that no-one could get into without many people knowing, and that access has been agreed on for a certain few individuals. I don't know how the encryption would be bypassed, but maybe they can be some secure way of doing this without it being open to hacking by the public.
Image
The Retro Gaming League _ -= My YouTube Videos =-
The eighties aren't over. I'll say when the eighties are over. The eighties are never over! You don't just turn off the eighties! - Jack Howitzer, GTA V

User avatar
Antiriad2097
Posts: 26966
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:48 pm
Location: http://s11.zetaboards.com/RetroLeague/
Contact:

Re: Apple (Tim Cook) vs the FBI, who's right and who's wrong

Post by Antiriad2097 » Sat Feb 20, 2016 6:38 am

This all seems a bit daft.

I assume the FBI tried to negotiate a contract and were going to pay Apple for their services?

Since they said no, can't they just hire some other coder/hacker to do it?

Of course the whole thing could be an act to get terrorists to move away from iOS (if apple lose) or onto iOS (if apple win), because the FBI already has what it needs and just wants to minimise the systems it monitors
The Retro League - Where skill isn't an obstacle
Retrocanteen, home of the unfairly banned
Tom_Baker wrote:I just finished watching a film about Stockholm syndrome. It started out terrible but by the end I really liked it.

User avatar
RodimusPrime
Posts: 4141
Joined: Sat May 25, 2013 12:16 pm

Re: Apple (Tim Cook) vs the FBI, who's right and who's wrong

Post by RodimusPrime » Sat Feb 20, 2016 9:02 am

If it was just a case of handing the phone over to apple and asking them to gain access to that one phone then I believe apple should do it.

However if, like some reports have said, the government are asking apple to provide them with a master key to unlock other phones then, No, no way in hell should apple do that.

User avatar
sscott
Posts: 13165
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2007 3:26 pm
Location: Sheffield

Re: Apple (Tim Cook) vs the FBI, who's right and who's wrong

Post by sscott » Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:20 am

I shoehorned it into an ICT lesson this week to cover privacy and encryption.
Image

User avatar
Sel Feena
Posts: 3569
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2009 6:38 pm

Re: Apple (Tim Cook) vs the FBI, who's right and who's wrong

Post by Sel Feena » Sat Feb 20, 2016 10:24 am

What? Did you take the class bellend's phone and try to get into it?
Image

User avatar
merman
Posts: 6530
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 5:14 pm
Location: Skegness, UK
Contact:

Re: Apple (Tim Cook) vs the FBI, who's right and who's wrong

Post by merman » Sat Feb 20, 2016 1:52 pm

Antiriad2097 wrote:This all seems a bit daft.

I assume the FBI tried to negotiate a contract and were going to pay Apple for their services?

Since they said no, can't they just hire some other coder/hacker to do it?

Of course the whole thing could be an act to get terrorists to move away from iOS (if apple lose) or onto iOS (if apple win), because the FBI already has what it needs and just wants to minimise the systems it monitors
McAfee have apparently offered to help.

Apple (and Google) are right to stand up for privacy and encryption. They protect much more than they harm.

There's been a lot of misinformation about this case and how much happened online. Letting Governments have a back door into consumer tech is not the answer.
merman1974 on Steam, Xbox Live, Twitter and YouTube

User avatar
Antiriad2097
Posts: 26966
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:48 pm
Location: http://s11.zetaboards.com/RetroLeague/
Contact:

Re: Apple (Tim Cook) vs the FBI, who's right and who's wrong

Post by Antiriad2097 » Sat Feb 20, 2016 2:37 pm

I dont see the harm in it either.
The Retro League - Where skill isn't an obstacle
Retrocanteen, home of the unfairly banned
Tom_Baker wrote:I just finished watching a film about Stockholm syndrome. It started out terrible but by the end I really liked it.

pratty
Posts: 5603
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:13 pm

Re: Apple (Tim Cook) vs the FBI, who's right and who's wrong

Post by pratty » Sun Feb 21, 2016 4:38 am

Antiriad2097 wrote:I dont see the harm in it either.
The potential abuse of this power by the government?

The governemnt asking to access a suspect's data is reasonable, but there is an issue of permission and the ownership of privacy, the governemnt should ask Apple and by extension the people for their permission to do this under specific circumstances as an exception to the otherwise rule of privacy. If the government has the potential to access any phone by default, then fundamentally the people's 'right' to privacy surely becomes a state given privilige instead, and with all the wider implications that comes with that.
Pratty's trade list, updated (May 2019)!
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=54823

User avatar
Antiriad2097
Posts: 26966
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:48 pm
Location: http://s11.zetaboards.com/RetroLeague/
Contact:

Re: Apple (Tim Cook) vs the FBI, who's right and who's wrong

Post by Antiriad2097 » Sun Feb 21, 2016 4:41 am

Umm, I still have no problem with it. Privacy is overrated, protecting crooks more than anyone else.
The Retro League - Where skill isn't an obstacle
Retrocanteen, home of the unfairly banned
Tom_Baker wrote:I just finished watching a film about Stockholm syndrome. It started out terrible but by the end I really liked it.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests