Paris under attack

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Sephiroth81
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by Sephiroth81 » Sun Nov 15, 2015 6:27 pm

RodimusPrime wrote:

Do you deny my points or not.
I have no idea what you are talking about, i'm far too high and chatting on the IRC right now, to go into another tedious back and forth with Sir RodimusPrime!

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RodimusPrime
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by RodimusPrime » Sun Nov 15, 2015 6:28 pm

Sephiroth81 wrote:
RodimusPrime wrote:

Do you deny my points or not.
I have no idea what you are talking about, i'm far too high and chatting on the IRC right now, to go into another tedious back and forth with Sir RodimusPrime!
I will take that as a yes.

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Sephiroth81
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by Sephiroth81 » Sun Nov 15, 2015 6:35 pm

RodimusPrime wrote:
I will take that as a yes.
Ok Mr Competition! I still have no idea what you are on about. I'm just enjoying the evening and hope you do too.

I have no clue what RP is on about.

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Re: Paris under attack

Post by pratty » Sun Nov 15, 2015 8:31 pm

The problem is we have to do something, shrugging our shoulders and saying "it's a tricky one, there's no easy answer," isn't going to achieve anything. Drastically limiting immigration is at least action, however unfair it may be on the majority of good refugees. The British government is not obliged to to shelter foreigners, it is obliged to protect British people so naturally that objective takes priority.

The reality is somebody is going to have to fight these terrotists and while Western military action in the Middle East only enrages these terrorists more, military action seems unavoidable as no diplomatic solution seems likely. And so while the people of Syria abandon ship seeking saftey in the West, the miltary defeat of the Islamic State will be paid for with Western wealth, and in the case of troops on the ground more importantly Western blood. As the Beans said it is not luck that the UK and other Western countries are the desired destinations for refugees, but the price paid to make these countries relatively safe and prosperous.
Sephiroth81 wrote:I have no clue what RP is on about.
I would guess something to do with meat and alcohol?
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Sephiroth81
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by Sephiroth81 » Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:08 am

pratty wrote:
Sephiroth81 wrote:I have no clue what RP is on about.
I would guess something to do with meat and alcohol?
Get out of town!! RodimusPrime bringing up arguments that were months and months ago?? I don't believe it.

I drink alcohol, but lets face facts, alcohol will take more lives than Syrian refugees will in the UK. Same as meat. So lets ban both, and just let Syrian refugees in as that is safer :)
pratty wrote:the miltary defeat of the Islamic State will be paid for with Western wealth, and in the case of troops on the ground more importantly Western blood.
Just as IS was funded and created by western wealth and military interventions. Western blood may be spilled, but this is part of the consequences for prior actions in the middle east for the generation, and besides, the people who pay the biggest price are the innocent hundreds of thousands/millions who will and already have been displaced, killed, tortured and fleeing (including the dangerous voyage to Europe).

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Re: Paris under attack

Post by psj3809 » Mon Nov 16, 2015 4:24 am

pratty wrote:The problem is we have to do something, shrugging our shoulders and saying "it's a tricky one, there's no easy answer," isn't going to achieve anything. Drastically limiting immigration is at least action, however unfair it may be on the majority of good refugees. The British government is not obliged to to shelter foreigners, it is obliged to protect British people so naturally that objective takes priority.

The reality is somebody is going to have to fight these terrotists and while Western military action in the Middle East only enrages these terrorists more, military action seems unavoidable as no diplomatic solution seems likely. And so while the people of Syria abandon ship seeking saftey in the West, the miltary defeat of the Islamic State will be paid for with Western wealth, and in the case of troops on the ground more importantly Western blood. As the Beans said it is not luck that the UK and other Western countries are the desired destinations for refugees, but the price paid to make these countries relatively safe and prosperous.
Sephiroth81 wrote:I have no clue what RP is on about.
I would guess something to do with meat and alcohol?
More and more countries are talking about the problem of all the Syrian refugees, they have to go to the root of the problem which is the Syrian civil war and of course IS. Once thats sorted out (easier said than done) then the refugee crisis will be much better, there'll still be a lot i'm sure but it wont be as bad. Most of these people dont want to abandon their homes/lives/family etc

IS have done a few schoolboy errors by upsetting big time Russia, obviously the US, Japan and other countries. The countries have to defeat IS, it wont be tough but sitting back has made the situation much much worse. To be fair they cant win, if they invade (Iraq) and get criticised (to be fair rightly so) but against IS they have to attack

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RodimusPrime
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by RodimusPrime » Mon Nov 16, 2015 12:35 pm

So it turns out that one of the shooters at the concert was in fact a syrian refugee. not only that but 6 weeks ago he was rescued from the water by greek coastguards when his boat capsized.

But hey, I guess people are just being silly when they say that terrorists are getting in countries with the refugees.

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Re: Paris under attack

Post by rossi46 » Mon Nov 16, 2015 12:48 pm

He wasn't a Syrian refugee, he came in under cover as a refugee. There's a massive difference.
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RodimusPrime
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by RodimusPrime » Mon Nov 16, 2015 12:49 pm

rossi46 wrote:He wasn't a Syrian refugee, he came in under cover as a refugee. There's a massive difference.
Sorry yes.

But it does prove it can, and has happeend.

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Sephiroth81
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by Sephiroth81 » Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:08 pm

RodimusPrime wrote:
rossi46 wrote:He wasn't a Syrian refugee, he came in under cover as a refugee. There's a massive difference.
Sorry yes.

But it does prove it can, and has happeend.
So any policy about anything has to be entirely changed because of a very very very small minority and a distant possibility?

Its also possible that white british citizens can also be brainwashed into doing bad things, including terrorist acts including for Islamic State. (which of course they already have)

I think we need to be rational and remain calm with our response, rather than knee-jerk reactions which never work. Islamic State are probably not happy about people fleeing the country and going into Europe for "salvation". So what better way for them to disrupt this, than to infiltrate the majority of good people who are genuinely refugees and doing (what virtually every single person here would do), with some brainwashed person who will cause harm, and therefore make citizens from countries in Europe use this as a reason to close the borders.

Lets try to not get carried away with fear....it is after all the reaction the terrorists want.

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RodimusPrime
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by RodimusPrime » Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:17 pm

Sephiroth81 wrote:
RodimusPrime wrote:
rossi46 wrote:He wasn't a Syrian refugee, he came in under cover as a refugee. There's a massive difference.
Sorry yes.

But it does prove it can, and has happeend.
So any policy about anything has to be entirely changed because of a very very very small minority and a distant possibility?

Its also possible that white british citizens can also be brainwashed into doing bad things, including terrorist acts including for Islamic State.

I think we need to be rational and remain calm with our response, rather than knee-jerk reactions which never work. Islamic State are probably not happy about people fleeing the country and going into Europe for "salvation". So what better way for them to disrupt this, than to infiltrate the majority of good people who are genuinely refugees and doing (what virtually every single person here would do), with some brainwashed person who will cause harm, and therefore make citizens from countries in Europe use this as a reason to close the borders.

Lets try to not get carried away with fear....it is after all the reaction the terrorists want.

WTF are you talking about. I never said any of that.

All I said earlier was that terrorists could sneak in with refugees. thats as far as I went. where the hell are you dragging all the other stuff up from.

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Re: Paris under attack

Post by The Beans » Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:30 pm

The borders should never have been as open as they have been in the first place. Closing them and getting back to a system of controlled immigration should be the first order of business before any other steps are taken. This has nothing to do with fear or knee jerk reactions concerning terrorists. The real knee jerk reaction came when thousands of migrants started knocking on the door and soft arse liberals simply waved them through.
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pratty
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by pratty » Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:36 pm

Sephiroth81 wrote:
RodimusPrime wrote:
rossi46 wrote:He wasn't a Syrian refugee, he came in under cover as a refugee. There's a massive difference.
Sorry yes.

But it does prove it can, and has happeend.
So any policy about anything has to be entirely changed because of a very very very small minority and a distant possibility?
Why then do people such as yourself insist on changes to the US second amendment any time a very small minority of nut cases goes on a killing spree? Aren't anti-gun advocates that way out of fear?

Why does a good law abiding majority have to suffer because of an evil minority when it suits you, and not when it doesn't?

Maybe France should also consider disarming it's citizens to prevent further gun violence, oh wait....

To be clear, I wouldn't want to reject out of hand thousands of people because of one or two bad eggs (if that's all it is), for me the possibility that some terrorists might sneak in with genuine refugees was way down my list of reasons for objecting to the unconditional mass immigration of Syrian refugees into Western Europe.
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by Sephiroth81 » Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:40 pm

RodimusPrime wrote:

WTF are you talking about. I never said any of that.

All I said earlier was that terrorists could sneak in with refugees. thats as far as I went. where the hell are you dragging all the other stuff up from.
I'm merely discussing the issue at hand. Don't get tetchy with me, as I'm not picking on you.
pratty wrote:
Why then do people such as yourself insist on changes to the US second amendment any time a very small minority of nut cases goes on a killing spree? Aren't anti-gun advocates that way out of fear?

Why does a good law abiding majority have to suffer because of an evil minority when it suits you, and not when it doesn't?

Maybe France should also consider disarming it's citizens to prevent further gun violence, oh wait....
The US second amendment hasn't changed, but has been of course debated for years/decades, and currently 10k+ US citizens every year are dying by accident, or homicide by guns (its not just the rampages, but these do highlight a need to change). This (gun control in US) is a case of where a change of a law written into the constitution from a very very different era would be common sense, albeit not universally popular at first.

I don't know the gun control laws in France, but even if they are tight, they still suffer far far far less victims of gun violence than in the USA. So i'm not sure what you are suggesting here? Perhaps we should just relax gun control in France and these events wouldn't have happened? I know that wasn't your main point, but just in case you are thinking of bringing that into the equation.
Last edited by Sephiroth81 on Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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RodimusPrime
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by RodimusPrime » Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:42 pm

Sephiroth81 wrote:
RodimusPrime wrote:

WTF are you talking about. I never said any of that.

All I said earlier was that terrorists could sneak in with refugees. thats as far as I went. where the hell are you dragging all the other stuff up from.
I'm merely discussing the issue at hand. Don't get tetchy with me, as I'm not picking on you.
You quoted me directly and your little rant had little or nothing to do with me I what I said. why even quote, why not just post.
my post and what you respnded with was completely disconnected.

Is not the whole point of quoting someone because you have a point to make in response to them.

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