Paris under attack

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aztecca
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by aztecca » Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:48 pm

HalcyonDaze00 wrote:disgraceful scenes from the Turkey v Greece game last night

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wt9bMYcmUFg

Yeah is a bit disrespectful that.What I dont understand is why they were chanting for old fish face admiral ackbar.
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by stvd » Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:47 pm

DPrinny wrote:Thing is, has America been targeted after 9/11? What about Russia?
:shock:
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by gman72 » Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:55 pm

What exactly do ISIS want? Does anyone actually know? Do they actually know? Is it just a general destruction of western civilisation? Do they want world war? Is that what they are trying to instigate? If they caused the world as we know it to burn in nuclear fire would that fit in with their heavenly holy death scenario? If Jihad translates literally as war or struggle against unbelievers does that imply that if we all converted to Islam they would leave us alone? I think not as I read somewhere that ISIS have killed hundreds of Muslims in the last few months alone. Who are they? What do they want? Genuine questions.
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Nemesis
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by Nemesis » Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:12 pm

gman72 wrote:What exactly do ISIS want? Does anyone actually know? Do they actually know? Is it just a general destruction of western civilisation? Do they want world war? Is that what they are trying to instigate? If they caused the world as we know it to burn in nuclear fire would that fit in with their heavenly holy death scenario? If Jihad translates literally as war or struggle against unbelievers does that imply that if we all converted to Islam they would leave us alone? I think not as I read somewhere that ISIS have killed hundreds of Muslims in the last few months alone. Who are they? What do they want? Genuine questions.
As I understand it, without checking Google, ISIS want everyone to adhere their strict interpretation of Islam and detest all western values. They will kill anybody who doesn't believe in their interpretation of Islam be they Aetheist, Christian, Hindu or even of the Islam faith. This is the main reason why Many Muslims have died at their hands too. They either need to run or stay and be obedient. A recent town was recaptured in norther Iraq and there was nobody there. ISIS were in charge of a ghost town with people who had fled or already dead at their hands.

Fortunately, for humanity in general, ISIS are too radical and drastic to have much success in having any long term gains, be they political or otherwise. They will have difficulties in recruiting new converts because of their hardline and strict approach. It's difficult for people to sympathise with their cause whilst killing fellow Muslims. That's why they reach out to people in UK, France etc to radicalise them and sell their utopian dream. At least, that's how I understand it.
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by DPrinny » Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:39 pm

youtube.com/watch?v=dmKpm_9BtHc#

nailed it?

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Re: Paris under attack

Post by silvergunner » Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:48 pm

aztecca wrote:
HalcyonDaze00 wrote:disgraceful scenes from the Turkey v Greece game last night

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wt9bMYcmUFg

Yeah is a bit disrespectful that.What I dont understand is why they were chanting for old fish face admiral ackbar.
Pretty shocking that. I did not realise that had happened.

Saying that looking back over the years and a quick google will tell you that Greece has a fair few problems with racism in sport. Football mainly.

Yes we have had our problems in the UK over the years with racism also. Even with the banter we put out in jest we would never stoop that low and disrespect the innocent people who have just lost their lives.

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Re: Paris under attack

Post by gman72 » Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:52 pm

Nemesis wrote:
gman72 wrote:What exactly do ISIS want? Does anyone actually know? Do they actually know? Is it just a general destruction of western civilisation? Do they want world war? Is that what they are trying to instigate? If they caused the world as we know it to burn in nuclear fire would that fit in with their heavenly holy death scenario? If Jihad translates literally as war or struggle against unbelievers does that imply that if we all converted to Islam they would leave us alone? I think not as I read somewhere that ISIS have killed hundreds of Muslims in the last few months alone. Who are they? What do they want? Genuine questions.
As I understand it, without checking Google, ISIS want everyone to adhere their strict interpretation of Islam and detest all western values. They will kill anybody who doesn't believe in their interpretation of Islam be they Aetheist, Christian, Hindu or even of the Islam faith. This is the main reason why Many Muslims have died at their hands too. They either need to run or stay and be obedient. A recent town was recaptured in norther Iraq and there was nobody there. ISIS were in charge of a ghost town with people who had fled or already dead at their hands.

Fortunately, for humanity in general, ISIS are too radical and drastic to have much success in having any long term gains, be they political or otherwise. They will have difficulties in recruiting new converts because of their hardline and strict approach. It's difficult for people to sympathise with their cause whilst killing fellow Muslims. That's why they reach out to people in UK, France etc to radicalise them and sell their utopian dream. At least, that's how I understand it.
Thank you, Nemesis, that's kinda what I thought. They want everyone to adhere to their beliefs and simply kill anyone that does not. I've heard stories of them asking people to recite passages from the Quran and executing them on the spot if they cannot.
I'm not sure that bombing their bases in Syria is gonna really effect anything. It seems to me it's an ideology - a belief - and whilst you might destroy a few jihadists and a few innocent Muslims you'll never bomb an ideology away it will just go underground for a while then return, also the families of any innocents the bombs kill will end up hating the west too.
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by Megamixer » Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:14 pm

gman72 wrote: I'm not sure that bombing their bases in Syria is gonna really effect anything. It seems to me it's an ideology - a belief - and whilst you might destroy a few jihadists and a few innocent Muslims you'll never bomb an ideology away it will just go underground for a while then return, also the families of any innocents the bombs kill will end up hating the west too.
What's the answer?
a) a lot of these attacks are being co-ordinated from Syria
b) a huge cause of the refugee flow is their presence in Syria/Iraq
c) they need to be stopped from spreading out and capturing even more territory. Can you imagine them overrunning an entire country or gaining enough numbers to topple a country with more sophisticated weapons caches/armanents (or even nukes) that would then be turned against the outside world. Okay, this one is perhaps a very outside possibility but even so.

At the end of the day, should they be allowed to just run rampant and capture territory while establishing a larger and more equipped power base? While it's not quite the same situation, Nazi Germany did the same...

You won't convince potential refugees to stay put in those countries where IS are doing what they do though and can you blame them?

I do agree however about the ideology being a problem that won't go away with bombs.
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by stvd » Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:51 pm

silvergunner wrote: Pretty shocking that. I did not realise that had happened.

Saying that looking back over the years and a quick google will tell you that Greece has a fair few problems with racism in sport. Football mainly.
Did you watch it? It was the Turkish fans chanting.
In Turkey (especially at football matches) a one minute silence is always used to chant for those who died in terrorist attacks.
Last edited by stvd on Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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gman72
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by gman72 » Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:52 pm

It would be terrible if they gained enough support or momentum to topple a country, certainly not a risk worth taking. I agree with your points. So we just bomb them back to the Stone Age and let them go underground for a few years. I can't help thinking that there must be a better way of sorting it out.
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by HalcyonDaze00 » Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:11 pm


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Re: Paris under attack

Post by the_hawk » Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:42 pm

What I don't understand is how people have such fixed views about what should and shouldn't be done about a situation they can't possibly begin to understand in a region they've never even been near.

Hell, I don't even know what's going on in my own house half the time.

I have to admit I'm angry, confused, apprehensive and pessimistic about the whole thing.
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RodimusPrime
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by RodimusPrime » Wed Nov 18, 2015 4:53 pm

the_hawk wrote:What I don't understand is how people have such fixed views about what should and shouldn't be done about a situation they can't possibly begin to understand in a region they've never even been near.

Hell, I don't even know what's going on in my own house half the time.

I have to admit I'm angry, confused, apprehensive and pessimistic about the whole thing.

This. I have no idea what needs to be done.

Does not stop armchair world experts being arrogant/stupid enough to believe they have all the answers.

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Re: Paris under attack

Post by pratty » Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:27 pm

While Islam itself is not to blame, terrorists such as ISIS find justifaction for their actions within Islam chosing to interpret the teachings in a manor that suits their political agenda, believing their actions not only have the blessings of Allah but are his wishes which they are obliged to dutifully obey.

So maybe it's time the major religions of the world, namely Judeo-Chrisitanity and Islam, should just come clean. Christianity is, amongst other things, for the most part a metaphor for astrology, and a collection and streamlining of many pagan beliefs and mythologies, and thus isn't to be taken literally. While most priests and preachers etc are as brainwashed as their flocks, I refuse to believe the heads of the main Judeo-Christian churches aren't aware of this, and knowingly preach myth as fact to their benefit. I expect it's a similar case with Islam.

So maybe Christianity should take the lead, and the Pope should come out and admit it's all been a scam. So that we can redefine the very notion of religion in general as merely a mythology to convey a spritual routine and set of ethics to by which to live and propser, instead of treating these religions as hard fact and the unchallengable word of a supreme creator.
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by gman72 » Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:51 pm

pratty wrote:
So maybe it's time the major religions of the world, namely Judeo-Chrisitanity and Islam, should just come clean.
How will this in practical terms stop ISIS from killing westerners in terror attacks?
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