Paris under attack

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HalcyonDaze00
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by HalcyonDaze00 » Fri Jul 22, 2016 7:42 pm

reports that gunmen has killed himself, police now saying he "probably" was alone, but other reports saying at least one other shooter was seen?

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Treguard
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by Treguard » Fri Jul 22, 2016 7:45 pm

HalcyonDaze00 wrote:sickening reports from Germany, executing kids in Mcdonalds after shouting Allahu Akbar, various news agencies now reporting the suspects have an Islamist background.

police press conference planned for 02.00
According to the Telegraph, there's footage of one of the gunmen shouting 'I am a German' and 'F*cking Foreigners.' Hope this press conference clears that up.

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oli_lar
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by oli_lar » Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:31 pm

RodimusPrime wrote:See all those points above about the bible, notice we don't do them anymore. See the difference.
Some of the things modern bible belt america do can be pretty archaic - lynchings, polygamy etc. Different shades of the same nuttiness!

pratty
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by pratty » Sat Jul 23, 2016 12:50 am

Treguard wrote:
pratty wrote:
Treguard wrote:
No, they come from a select interpretation of certain phrases in the Quran by a group of c*nts who want to use it to forward their own bullsh*t agenda and justify to themselves the hideous things they do.
You're referring only to jihadists, when that is only one aspect of islamic extremism. Though on the subject of jihad, the problem with Islam is that it is too easy to interpret verses in the scripture, for example where it encourages Muslims to wage war on non-believers, as encouragement to wage war on non-believers. If Islam is the religion of peace why are these sorts of writings even in it to be mis-interpreted?

Of course most muslims don't follow this stuff literally and to the letter, probably because of their own humane common sense and decency, and this is the reason we call those people "moderates" because of their moderation of Islam.
You know the bible contains all kinds of crazy sh*t too? Advice on how to sell your daughter into slavery, if your son doesn't listen to you and behave himself you can take him to the town square and have him stoned to death, women are not allowed to teach or have positions of authority over men (our current prime minister would be in trouble) and should submit themselves to their husbands as to God, you can't touch pigskin, periods are unclean and a woman should ritually slaughter two turtles and two doves eight days after having one, anyone who works on a Sunday should be put to death, as should anyone who plants two crops side by side, and anyone who wears a garment made of two cloths...

Point is you're dealing with texts written hundreds of years ago that are as much advice on how to deal with socio-economic issues at the time as actual holy scripture. Most reasonable people who follow religion understand this, and understand certain parts are no longer to be taken literally in modern society. That doesn't make them less of a Christian, or less of a Muslim, or less of a Jew. It just makes them a 21st century person who uses their belief in the divine to help guide their life, but doesn't let it rule them, and doesn't let somebody else twist it into something they know it shouldn't be.
And so considering how much more literal muslims as a whole do take their ancient teachings we can conclude that Islam is, as a whole, a backward and undesirable culture in the modern West. I think it's fair to say while both religions have craziness in it the west generally has the sense to seperate church and state to prevent literal interpreatitions being law, less so in the middle east, I don't know of many places in the West that want to live under fire and brimestone old testment teachings.

On slavery, in Exodus it says "if/when" you take a slave, it is a condoning of the practice but unlike jihad it is not a direct commandment to do it, nor is there a reward in heaven attached to it. Has any group done more to end slavery than western christians?

Additionally Christians, as the name implies, aspire to live by the example of Jesus Christ, who as I'm sure you're aware was much more peaceful and decent example to followers of the respective faiths than Muhammed.

However I am not at all opposed to the examination of the christian religion and christian influenced contemporary culture, and I'm only to happy to condemn it where necessary, why can we not do the same for islam?
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Treguard
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by Treguard » Sat Jul 23, 2016 2:17 am

pratty wrote:
Treguard wrote:
pratty wrote:
You're referring only to jihadists, when that is only one aspect of islamic extremism. Though on the subject of jihad, the problem with Islam is that it is too easy to interpret verses in the scripture, for example where it encourages Muslims to wage war on non-believers, as encouragement to wage war on non-believers. If Islam is the religion of peace why are these sorts of writings even in it to be mis-interpreted?

Of course most muslims don't follow this stuff literally and to the letter, probably because of their own humane common sense and decency, and this is the reason we call those people "moderates" because of their moderation of Islam.
You know the bible contains all kinds of crazy sh*t too? Advice on how to sell your daughter into slavery, if your son doesn't listen to you and behave himself you can take him to the town square and have him stoned to death, women are not allowed to teach or have positions of authority over men (our current prime minister would be in trouble) and should submit themselves to their husbands as to God, you can't touch pigskin, periods are unclean and a woman should ritually slaughter two turtles and two doves eight days after having one, anyone who works on a Sunday should be put to death, as should anyone who plants two crops side by side, and anyone who wears a garment made of two cloths...

Point is you're dealing with texts written hundreds of years ago that are as much advice on how to deal with socio-economic issues at the time as actual holy scripture. Most reasonable people who follow religion understand this, and understand certain parts are no longer to be taken literally in modern society. That doesn't make them less of a Christian, or less of a Muslim, or less of a Jew. It just makes them a 21st century person who uses their belief in the divine to help guide their life, but doesn't let it rule them, and doesn't let somebody else twist it into something they know it shouldn't be.
And so considering how much more literal muslims as a whole do take their ancient teachings we can conclude that Islam is, as a whole, a backward and undesirable culture in the modern West. I think it's fair to say while both religions have craziness in it the west generally has the sense to seperate church and state to prevent literal interpreatitions being law, less so in the middle east, I don't know of many places in the West that want to live under fire and brimestone old testment teachings.

On slavery, in Exodus it says "if/when" you take a slave, it is a condoning of the practice but unlike jihad it is not a direct commandment to do it, nor is there a reward in heaven attached to it. Has any group done more to end slavery than western christians?

Additionally Christians, as the name implies, aspire to live by the example of Jesus Christ, who as I'm sure you're aware was much more peaceful and decent example to followers of the respective faiths than Muhammed.

However I am not at all opposed to the examination of the christian religion and christian influenced contemporary culture, and I'm only to happy to condemn it where necessary, why can we not do the same for islam?
Er, wow. You realised you just pronounced that an entire religion is backward and undesirable and not compatible with life in the Western world? Think there was a guy in Germany said the same thing about Jews back in the Thirties, didn't turn out so well. And what part of the Quran do Muslims take more seriously? Have you conducted a poll and asked them? That's an incredible thing to state without any evidence.

As for the whole thing about slavery being ended by Western Christians, yes if you're talking in terms of size of slave trade ended that's true, but considering it was Western Christians who increased slavery to almost industrial levels in the first place, they had a lot to work with.

And if you don't know of anywhere in the West that wants to live by Old Testament Fire and Brimstone teachings, you've clearly never visited Louisiana or Kentucky... But I wouldn't say certain people in those states are indicative of all Christians, because they follow a certain form of Christianity that not all Christians agree with. Just like ISIS and they're associated f*ckwits follow a select version of Wahhabism that other Muslims don't agree with or follow, because it is incompatible not just with the Western world, but life as a 21st century human being in general.

And yeah Jesus Christ is a peaceful example, if that's how you interpret him. Doesn't have nice things to say about followers of other religions though. Luke 19:27.

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HalcyonDaze00
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by HalcyonDaze00 » Sat Jul 23, 2016 3:50 am

killer confirmed as being Ali Sonboly, an Iranian who had been in Germany at least two years, possibly longer

more reports of him shouting Allahu Akbar before killing the children

police still working on the lone wolf theory, but they said that about Nice, and then the arrests began............

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Treguard
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by Treguard » Sat Jul 23, 2016 4:32 am

HalcyonDaze00 wrote:killer confirmed as being Ali Sonboly, an Iranian who had been in Germany at least two years, possibly longer

more reports of him shouting Allahu Akbar before killing the children

police still working on the lone wolf theory, but they said that about Nice, and then the arrests began............
Theres reports of him shouting 'I am a German' and 'F*cking Turks'. Be very surprising if this had anything to do with ISIS, or anything like that. If he's of Iranian descent his likely to be Shia rather than Sunni, and ISIS consider Shias to be just as much the infidel as everyone else.

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RodimusPrime
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by RodimusPrime » Sat Jul 23, 2016 6:43 am

Treguard wrote:
RodimusPrime wrote:See all those points above about the bible, notice we don't do them anymore. See the difference.

and the itchy crotch thing, so now you have resorted to dismissing it away as a joke despite the fact that it was never about him having an itchy crotch as you say. It was about him touching that area where his wife could see which is offensive to him and jis religion.

bit hey, lets stick our head in the sand and laugh it all of and resort to sarcastic responses.
Yeah, most Christians don't do those things anymore. Most Muslims don't do things like that either. There's no evidence that it was anything to do with his religion being offended, no-ones said that.

Rodimus, one question. Most of us are on here under pseudonyms, and apart from the fact we all like retro games we don't know a lot about each other. Would you be saying all this if you knew the person you were saying them to was a Muslim?

YES. Sorry but yes. I believe fully in saying what you actually believe to everybody.

I realize there are many good muslims and sorry if it offends them but I personally believe we have an issue that is becoming a problem. I don't hate muslims, but I do dislike the teachings and some of what they believe.

I fully expect there to be muslims on these forums. The handful of muslim kids I grew up with were very moderate and were avid gamers and would happily spend hours talking about games. it was a nice topic where everyone forget about diffrences.

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Sephiroth81
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by Sephiroth81 » Sat Jul 23, 2016 6:57 am

The gunman was reported, by police, to be born and raised in Munich. I'm sure him being of Iranian descent will titillate some posters on here but let's not jump to conclusions and be respectful of the victims first and wait for the full facts to come in. Save the morbid and distasteful commentary and finger pointing until then.

I'm sure some people are more interested in this person's motives, but this is a horrible tragic event and many innocent people have been killed.

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RodimusPrime
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by RodimusPrime » Sat Jul 23, 2016 7:05 am

Sephiroth81 wrote:The gunman was reported, by police, to be born and raised in Munich. I'm sure him being of Iranian descent will titillate some posters on here but let's not jump to conclusions and be respectful of the victims first and wait for the full facts to come in. Save the morbid and distasteful commentary and finger pointing until then.

I'm sure some people are more interested in this person's motives, but this is a horrible tragic event and many innocent people have been killed.
don't start talking about distatsteful comments after your performance in the murdered MP thread mate. You have no right to do so whatsoever.

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Sephiroth81
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by Sephiroth81 » Sat Jul 23, 2016 7:16 am

RodimusPrime wrote:
don't start talking about distatsteful comments after your performance in the murdered MP thread mate. You have no right to do so whatsoever.
I was respectful and just pointed out some inconsistencies in some of our fellow posters (their conspicuous absence in such a event). The backlash was predictable and demonstrated that I could have been quite accurate with my comments hence the hypersensitivity then, and clearly even now.

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Sephiroth81
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by Sephiroth81 » Sat Jul 23, 2016 7:19 am

RodimusPrime wrote:

YES. Sorry but yes. I believe fully in saying what you actually believe to everybody.

I realize there are many good muslims and sorry if it offends them but I personally believe we have an issue that is becoming a problem. I don't hate muslims, but I do dislike the teachings and some of what they believe.

I fully expect there to be muslims on these forums. The handful of muslim kids I grew up with were very moderate and were avid gamers and would happily spend hours talking about games. it was a nice topic where everyone forget about diffrences.
You are all bluster, and the very epitome of a keyboard warrior. The accusation could also be levelled at me, but I'm not spending my time in denial of this.

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RodimusPrime
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by RodimusPrime » Sat Jul 23, 2016 8:37 am

Sephiroth81 wrote:
RodimusPrime wrote:

YES. Sorry but yes. I believe fully in saying what you actually believe to everybody.

I realize there are many good muslims and sorry if it offends them but I personally believe we have an issue that is becoming a problem. I don't hate muslims, but I do dislike the teachings and some of what they believe.

I fully expect there to be muslims on these forums. The handful of muslim kids I grew up with were very moderate and were avid gamers and would happily spend hours talking about games. it was a nice topic where everyone forget about diffrences.
You are all bluster, and the very epitome of a keyboard warrior. The accusation could also be levelled at me, but I'm not spending my time in denial of this.
Bluster about what?

You seem a little angry mate, maybe time to take part in one of your many sessions to help you chill.

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Sephiroth81
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by Sephiroth81 » Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:15 am

RodimusPrime wrote: Bluster about what?

You seem a little angry mate, maybe time to take part in one of your many sessions to help you chill.
Ha, fair enough, bit early for that though, I have an "after 7pm rule" (with the cut off at 2am just in case to cover any wisecracks!). So you'll have to deal with my massive anger and rage for the next few hours, so be prepared. GRRRRRRR! :twisted: :twisted:

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RodimusPrime
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Re: Paris under attack

Post by RodimusPrime » Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:20 am

Sephiroth81 wrote:
RodimusPrime wrote: Bluster about what?

You seem a little angry mate, maybe time to take part in one of your many sessions to help you chill.
Ha, fair enough, bit early for that though, I have an "after 7pm rule" (with the cut off at 2am just in case to cover any wisecracks!). So you'll have to deal with my massive anger and rage for the next few hours, so be prepared. GRRRRRRR! :twisted: :twisted:
Listen Seph. despite the differing opinions between us I would expect you to be firm enough to be willing to repeat your opinions and beliefs to anyone, face to face or not.

I am the same, now if I was just making provocative statements to get a rise then you may have had a point, my comments reg the current situation are mine, so what makes you think I would suddenly abandon those opinions just because I am face to face with someone.

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