Aliens are you excited.

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Negative Creep
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Re: Aliens are you excited.

Post by Negative Creep » Mon Mar 02, 2015 5:59 pm

Megamixer wrote:Alien 3 has a different tone to the first two films (both of which were also very different movies) and while it couldn't match Aliens, I enjoyed it for what it was. It seems more pschological and has its own indentity.

Resurrection isn't really a 'bad' film but it feels like 'just another movie' with predictable deaths and straightforward plot. It's for that reason that I found it disappointing. The VS movies were much, much worse though; especially AvP2: Requiem.

The cinematic cut of Alien 3 is a bit of a mess but the director's cut is a big improvement. Given the amount of studio meddling it could never have been a classic, but I do agree it gets an unfair amount of flak. I thought Resurrection was very poor because it turned Ripley into a one note badass, there was too much comedy and it simply had the wrong director. AvP 1 was just about tolerable as a saturday night background movie - the best thing I can say was that I didn't see anything that was offensively bad. AvP2 was an utter abomination though - the story made no sense, you could barely see what was going on because it was so dark, I couldn't name a single character and in upping the gore it came across as incredibly bad taste (the bit with the Facehuggers and the pregnant women in the hospital was disgusting)
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Re: Aliens are you excited.

Post by Megamixer » Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:26 am

Negative Creep wrote:AvP2 was an utter abomination though - the story made no sense, you could barely see what was going on because it was so dark, I couldn't name a single character and in upping the gore it came across as incredibly bad taste (the bit with the Facehuggers and the pregnant women in the hospital was disgusting)
Yeah I'm not bothered by the deaths in Alien films but the pregnant woman bit was horrible and seemed morally wrong. That scene sticks in my head unfortunately and I hated it.

The other offensive thing is that they used whiny teenagers rather than soldiers or the usual hard-ass types that you associate with Alien or Predator films. When the "get to the choppa" line made an appearance towards the end, it was an insult to Arnie.
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Re: Aliens are you excited.

Post by Antiriad2097 » Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:57 am

Wasn't the pregnant scene one of that movie's only redeeming features? Its meant to be horrific, but all the whiny teens just made it silly instead. That one scene is its one true moment of horror. It is vile, and that is why it works, it brings an emotional response. Some would say it is art.
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Re: Aliens are you excited.

Post by Grizzly » Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:55 pm

No. It wasn't a redeeming feature. It was a cherry on top of a morally ambiguous turd-cake. It certainly isn't art when the directors were trying so hard for a reaction like that. If AVPR is art then Freddy got fingered is an installation from picasso himself.

There is nothing redeemable about AVP:R and the Brothers Strauss should suffer for it.
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Re: Aliens are you excited.

Post by DoraemonTheCat » Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:00 pm

I'm guessing that both Sigourney and Micheal Biehn will need "visual effects work" to un-age them....I mean, close to 30 years when Aliens came out!

I'm psyched that this will be an immediate sequel to Aliens....the concept artwork by Neil Blomkamp was simply amazing

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Re: Aliens are you excited.

Post by DoraemonTheCat » Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:16 pm

For the record........I didn't mind Alien 3, the one unique point was they didn't have guns to deal with the threat, the flamethrower the only proper piece of hardware they could use.

I thought Ripley's suicide was a great ending too

Alien Resurrection (for me) was just all kinds of rubbish. I detest Ron Pearlman for a start

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Re: Aliens are you excited.

Post by Grizzly » Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:02 pm

DoraemonTheCat wrote:For the record........I didn't mind Alien 3, the one unique point was they didn't have guns to deal with the threat, the flamethrower the only proper piece of hardware they could use.

I thought Ripley's suicide was a great ending too

Alien Resurrection (for me) was just all kinds of rubbish. I detest Ron Pearlman for a start
They didn't have a flamethrower in Alien 3. The only thing they could weaponise was that chemical when they were flushing it into the vault and flares. They were completely defenseless, and that's what set it apart from the others! I love that film. In fact all of them have redeeming qualities apart from AVP:R
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Re: Aliens are you excited.

Post by crusto » Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:06 pm

I'm really looking forward to this as Aliens is one of my all time favourites. For me, after Aliens Alien 3 was a bit of a let down, and resurrection was just crap. That said, I have only seen it once so I should maybe give it another chance. But still, carrying on directly from Aliens sounds good to me.

On the subject of AVP etc, I liked predators. Anything that stars Danny Trejo is badass.
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Re: Aliens are you excited.

Post by Bluce_Ree » Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:52 pm

Hmm.

I love the series and that includes 3 which is ace and most of Res (basically everything apart from the newborn) but I've come to realise in recent years that anything that carries the Alien/Aliens name these days is going to be gash.

That includes the games. I actually enjoyed CM a little (basically because you got to run around the rooms that were in Aliens) but I thought Isolation was rubbish.

I'll be stunned if Alien 5 is good. If it is good though I'll literally cum oil.
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Re: Aliens are you excited.

Post by Negative Creep » Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:24 pm

Antiriad2097 wrote:Wasn't the pregnant scene one of that movie's only redeeming features? Its meant to be horrific, but all the whiny teens just made it silly instead. That one scene is its one true moment of horror. It is vile, and that is why it works, it brings an emotional response. Some would say it is art.

Real horror should unsettle or disturb you because it plays on an instinctive fear, not just go for bad taste gore (same reason I dislike films such as Hostel and Human Centipede)

Bluce_Ree wrote:That includes the games. I actually enjoyed CM a little (basically because you got to run around the rooms that were in Aliens) but I thought Isolation was rubbish.

CM wasn't quite as bad as the press made out but it was still very flawed. I loved Isolation not just because it nailed the atmosphere of the first two films but it turned the Xeno into a very real threat again, not just cheap cannon fodder
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Re: Aliens are you excited.

Post by Antiriad2097 » Thu Mar 05, 2015 7:15 pm

No, real horror can be gore. Remember, we (well, I) grew up in the video nasty era, where much of it was about low budget gore.
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Re: Aliens are you excited.

Post by Bluce_Ree » Fri Mar 06, 2015 12:10 pm

I actually consider AvP: Requiem to be the worst film I've ever seen. Now, AvP1 was rubbish but I can at least rewatch it and it has some moments. Not many. But some that are okay.

I mean yes. I hate all the characters, apart from the Scottish guy and I hated his death, and I really hated all that 'the enemy of my enemy.... is... my... friend?' nonsense but I can watch it.

AvP: Requiem. I saw it in the cinema and have never seen it since. Didn't pick up the DVD to complete my collection (I do own AvP1) and even turned over when I came across it on actual TV. It's a film without merit. Complete and utter rubbish.
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Re: Aliens are you excited.

Post by Negative Creep » Fri Mar 06, 2015 12:13 pm

Antiriad2097 wrote:No, real horror can be gore. Remember, we (well, I) grew up in the video nasty era, where much of it was about low budget gore.

But gore isn't scary. It might disgust or repel you, but by itself doesn't induce fear or terror. The reason films like Misery and Audition work is that they spend so long building up to the violence, and are based on scenarios that in our minds could happen, in these instances a seemingly benign and friendly person being anything but.

In fact aside from the chestburster scene, which is effective because it comes out of nowhere, (imagine going to the cinema on release day and seeing that) there really isn't much gore in Alien or Aliens, with the camera usually cutting away at the key moment. Alien works so well because it taps into our primal fears of the unknown and being hunted by something that could be anywhere, any time. Aliens doesn't set out to be a pure horror film but does explore our natural instinct to protect children, and how vulnerable we are when the technology we rely so much upon proves ineffective against a relentless unfeeling enemy with no regard for their own safety. Resurrection had a lot of gore but none of it effective because you cared so little for any of the characters
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Re: Aliens are you excited.

Post by Antiriad2097 » Fri Mar 06, 2015 1:15 pm

I didn't say it was good horror, but gore has pretty much been a staple of the genre since it started. Even before cinema, we'd have gore novels. Werewolves aren't just scary because they creep around in the dark hunting you, there's the very real and often described/visualised ripping out of your throat.

Its true to say that you can have horror without gore, but I don't think its fair to just dismiss gory movies as not being horror, when they often are.

Did you not fear at all for those women? Beyond the repulsion there can also be empathy for someone in that situation, having horrific things done to them. I find that scary. Even murder pr0n like Hostel, which is otherwise a fairly ropey low budget flick, instils some sense of fear from the 'what if' with its basic scenario.

There was a time when The Texas Chainsaw Massacre was derided as little more than a gore movie...
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Re: Aliens are you excited.

Post by Negative Creep » Fri Mar 06, 2015 1:48 pm

For me Hostel (and many other horror/torture films) didn't work because the protagonists were so completely unlikeable I didn't really care what happened to them. The recent Evil Dead remake did a surprisingly good job of making you feel for characters whilst using buckets of gore. The AvP scene just smacked of the directors sitting down and seeing what they could do to offend people for the sake of being offensive, and anything involving unborn children ranks pretty highly. From what I remember she's just lying in bed and then gets attacked, so we know nothing of her and there's no tension or buildup, then it breaks the franchise's rules by making her give birth to a group of them about 5 minutes later (in an obvious plot device to give our heroes more things to shoot at). So the only emotion that got from me was a tut and a comment about how unnecessary it was.


There's nothing wrong with gore, either in a realistic or OTT sense, but what you don't see is always far more effective. As an example, for me the creepiest moment in the entire franchise is when Ripley can hear the Alien killing Lambert over the radio. They could have very easily shown the Alien tear her apart on camera, but your mind is forced to imagine what is happening (especially as in the previous shot it seemed to be "exploring" her leg, although I never bought into the rape argument, I just saw it toying with it's prey in the same way a cat does) and that makes it all the more effective.
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