Scotland independence - YES or NO - VOTE

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Independant Scotland?

Poll ended at Wed Sep 17, 2014 11:22 am

YES!
14
23%
NO!
37
62%
No Opinion
9
15%
 
Total votes: 60

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Antiriad2097
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Re: Scotland independence - YES or NO - VOTE

Post by Antiriad2097 » Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:07 pm

rossi46 wrote:
Nemesis wrote: Ant, you're restoring my faith in the Scottish people beyond some of the English hating Scot Nats that have blighted this referendum.
It's got nothing to do with 'English hating Nats' and everything about letting the Scottish people make their own decisions for themselves. The argument has gone way beyond removing Tories and other tosh like that. It's about voting to live in a progressive, more liberal society. One where the Scots get to make the rules we live by.
But it won't. The heavy skew in population still means its just one or two cities dictating how the rest of us should live. And to be honest, I suspect London has far more in common with Aberdeen than Glasgow does.

Today, on more than one occasion, I've heard how 'Scotland' wants rid of Trident. Does it? I don't. I'm pretty sure the people who are thriving on its economy don't. Remove Trident and it gives us more unemployment, less taxes, greater support costs... it's just another catchphrase that sounds good on the surface until the slightest hint of inspection shows it up.
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rossi46
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Re: Scotland independence - YES or NO - VOTE

Post by rossi46 » Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:32 pm

Ant, you can make as many empty statements you like, the bottom line is Scotland has a chance to change the course of history for the better. A chance that will never come our way again in our lifetime.

We can vote for a new, fairer Scotland, where we get a say about the things that actually matter to us. Or we can choose to stay the same. The poor relatives, the inferior and undervalued.
Thoughts and prayers.

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Nemesis
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Re: Scotland independence - YES or NO - VOTE

Post by Nemesis » Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:39 pm

Antiriad2097 wrote:
rossi46 wrote:
Nemesis wrote: Ant, you're restoring my faith in the Scottish people beyond some of the English hating Scot Nats that have blighted this referendum.
It's got nothing to do with 'English hating Nats' and everything about letting the Scottish people make their own decisions for themselves. The argument has gone way beyond removing Tories and other tosh like that. It's about voting to live in a progressive, more liberal society. One where the Scots get to make the rules we live by.
But it won't. The heavy skew in population still means its just one or two cities dictating how the rest of us should live. And to be honest, I suspect London has far more in common with Aberdeen than Glasgow does.

Today, on more than one occasion, I've heard how 'Scotland' wants rid of Trident. Does it? I don't. I'm pretty sure the people who are thriving on its economy don't. Remove Trident and it gives us more unemployment, less taxes, greater support costs... it's just another catchphrase that sounds good on the surface until the slightest hint of inspection shows it up.
Yes, I thought that about trident too. It would have to move south and presumably take the jobs with it. Ship building on the Clyde might be affected too in terms of orders placed from the remainder of the UK. Lloyd's, Royal Bank of Scotland and the TSB (I think) said they would possibly relocate to London should independence be a reality. My savings would certainly be removed from Lloyd's and the Scottish Widows faster than a whippet in a rabbit enclosure if independence came into affect.

There will be a lot of pain across all borders as a divorce from 300+ years of marriage is bound to be a messy one and most, if not everyone , will be affected by it.
Oh and if you want to do little social experiments on our forum don't post about them on your own you plum - Darren@Retro Gamer

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Re: Scotland independence - YES or NO - VOTE

Post by Matt_B » Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:45 pm

Relocating Trident to England or Wales would be an expensive business, and the most likely option would just be to continue to lease the facilities at Coulport and Faslane for the lifetime of the current fleet; probably to about 2030. Much though the SNP would like to deliver on their promise of a nuclear-free Scotland more quickly than that, it'd be a very good bargaining chip for them.

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Re: Scotland independence - YES or NO - VOTE

Post by Nemesis » Wed Sep 10, 2014 5:45 pm

rossi46 wrote:The poor relatives, the inferior and undervalued.

I'm not going to patronise you as it's your opinion but I don't see Scotland as inferior or undervalued. Britain is greater than a sum of its parts. If England left the union it would be weaker as well. I'm not saying Scotland wouldn't survive on its own but what happened when the UK government bailed out the major banks, including the major Scottish ones, shows that you can absorb more damage as part of a larger whole than any small country could on its own. That would include an independent England too.
Oh and if you want to do little social experiments on our forum don't post about them on your own you plum - Darren@Retro Gamer

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Re: Scotland independence - YES or NO - VOTE

Post by Antiriad2097 » Wed Sep 10, 2014 7:37 pm

Nemesis wrote:
rossi46 wrote:The poor relatives, the inferior and undervalued.

I'm not going to patronise you as it's your opinion but I don't see Scotland as inferior or undervalued. Britain is greater than a sum of its parts. If England left the union it would be weaker as well. I'm not saying Scotland wouldn't survive on its own but what happened when the UK government bailed out the major banks, including the major Scottish ones, shows that you can absorb more damage as part of a larger whole than any small country could on its own. That would include an independent England too.
This. Typical complex going on there, with odd conspiracy theories that we're somehow being taken advantage of and dumped on.
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Re: Scotland independence - YES or NO - VOTE

Post by the_hawk » Thu Sep 11, 2014 4:08 am

Probably the most practical and sensible solution of the lot...

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Antiriad2097
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Re: Scotland independence - YES or NO - VOTE

Post by Antiriad2097 » Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:00 am

On the No campaign being based on fear and scaremongering, isn't that exactly what the Yes campaign is? A fear of being governed from England? That somehow they have it in for us?
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Re: Scotland independence - YES or NO - VOTE

Post by r0jaws » Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:18 am

the_hawk wrote:Probably the most practical and sensible solution of the lot...

Image
Looks great to me, I'll get my shovel. :D

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r0jaws
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Re: Scotland independence - YES or NO - VOTE

Post by r0jaws » Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:45 am

rossi46 wrote:
Nemesis wrote: Ant, you're restoring my faith in the Scottish people beyond some of the English hating Scot Nats that have blighted this referendum.
It's got nothing to do with 'English hating Nats' and everything about letting the Scottish people make their own decisions for themselves. The argument has gone way beyond removing Tories and other tosh like that. It's about voting to live in a progressive, more liberal society. One where the Scots get to make the rules we live by.
The thing is, if the Nats had gone with that, and stuck with that from the beginning, then maybe there would have even been positive support for it North and South of the border.
Instead, all we hear is, nasty Tories, Our Oil, NHS, nasty Tories, Bedroom Tax, Sterling, nasty Tories.
It is plain that some Nationalists may hold the ideal you state, but they are attempting to woo voters using the same scaremongering tactics you claim for the BT gang. They are certainly not saints, and they care more about independence than they do about anything else, and are prepared to take great risks with every one in the Union's futures to achieve it.
I don't believe anyone is going to be better off after a Yes vote. The only thing I am hopeful of is that my children don't have to spend their lives trying to repair the financial mess that will be brought on by this.

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Re: Scotland independence - YES or NO - VOTE

Post by Megamixer » Thu Sep 11, 2014 6:31 am

Nemesis wrote:I'm not going to patronise you as it's your opinion but I don't see Scotland as inferior or undervalued. Britain is greater than a sum of its parts. If England left the union it would be weaker as well.
^^^ This is what it's all about for me. I don't see any part of the UK as inferior or superior to any other segment and we are stronger together.

One thing I saw on the TV yesterday that was interesting was the subject of the national debt and how it would be split up...how on earth will that one be worked out then?
Retro is a state of mind, and cares not for your puny concepts like dates and calendars.

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Timothy Lumsden
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Re: Scotland independence - YES or NO - VOTE

Post by Timothy Lumsden » Thu Sep 11, 2014 7:41 am

Hopefully Labour is paying attention and will realise that parties with social justice platforms do rather well.

Not going to come out on either side, but the people of these Isles really do deserve something better - whatever that turns out to be - i'm tired of seeing everyone I know - teachers, medical workers etc working like dogs and getting nothing. My Doctor brother in law is even emigrating to Oz. Says he felt hounded out. Somthings very rotten in the UK at the moment. Scottish unhappiness is an understandable symptom of that.

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joefish
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Re: Scotland independence - YES or NO - VOTE

Post by joefish » Thu Sep 11, 2014 7:45 am

joefish wrote: And it's also easily forgotten that, apart from the density of its major cities, Scotland is a sparesly populated part of the UK with a disproportionately high dependence on state aid.
rossi46 wrote: Yes, they should know their place. How dare they think they're important enough to have their own sovereignty and make their own decisions.
How does your statement have anything whatsoever to do with mine? First off, rural Scots already have sovereignty and get a vote. Now you might argue that their vote is swept away by the overwhelming numbers of English voters. But in an independent Scotland, their vote is still going to be irrelevant compared to the cities of Edinburgh, Glasgow and Aberdeen.

Secondly, it's all well and good for you to say they can make their own decisions; just like Salmond is promising; but if you can't afford it then you can't have it. Simple as that. You lost 2 BILLION quid overnight on just the suggestion in a poll that independence might have taken the lead. How much do you reckon you'll lose if it actually goes ahead?

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Re: Scotland independence - YES or NO - VOTE

Post by joefish » Thu Sep 11, 2014 10:25 am

I see even the Daily Mash has to surrender to the absurdity of the situation and just actually report the news as it happens...

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/busi ... 4091190446

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Re: Scotland independence - YES or NO - VOTE

Post by gunbladelad » Thu Sep 11, 2014 1:26 pm

Please - do yourselves a favour - completely ignore the biased media reports and go and do a little research on the matter. A couple of websearches ought to be enough. Scotland will be far better off and wealthier by itself than it is under Westminster.
Where logic won't work, I will

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