Scotland independence - YES or NO - VOTE

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Independant Scotland?

Poll ended at Wed Sep 17, 2014 11:22 am

YES!
14
23%
NO!
37
62%
No Opinion
9
15%
 
Total votes: 60

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the_hawk
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Re: Scotland independance - YES or NO - VOTE

Post by the_hawk » Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:14 pm

As a supporter of the Union, HELL NO!

However if Scotland do manage to free the shackles of that rat-bastad Cameron and his cronies, I am DEMANDING an Independent Republic of the North West of England be set up with Manchester being the centre of power.
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BennyTheGreek
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Re: Scotland independance - YES or NO - VOTE

Post by BennyTheGreek » Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:06 pm

I live in the NE England and I have no opinion.

All I do know is that politics is a waste of time. Politicians will do what they want and deep down I have the feeling that the whole process is rigged.

Whatever we say or do will make no difference whatsoever, so I will happily keep out of politics and any discussion about it. I do vote, but will vote for the party that will do the most for the environment rather than who will give me the most money via tax cuts etc.

These `green` parties will never get into power, but I will not allow my vote to be either not cast or given to one of the big 3 (or 4) - theyre all the same, just a bunch of twats in suits who dont give a tiny rats arse about me.

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markopoloman
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Re: Scotland independence - YES or NO - VOTE

Post by markopoloman » Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:12 pm

The mischievous part of me would love to see Salmond win and then fail as I really can't stand the bloke (or that 2nd in command Sturgeon or whatever she's called - something odd about her face and big hair :lol: ). But the genuine part of me says NO. I think it would be bad for Scotland and bad for England - and I'm generally a Tory voter.

But, if Scotland does vote yes, then I believe the £ should not be part of a deal with them. I still don't believe they will vote yes though.
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gunbladelad
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Re: Scotland independence - YES or NO - VOTE

Post by gunbladelad » Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:22 pm

I will be voting yes in the referendum - and what decided it for me was actually some of the "better together" promotional material that got shoved through my door. I'm not gonna say too much, but it was shoved through 2 days after all the "facts" printed on it got flagged up in the national media as lies. Note that 90% of that leaflet was people saying they were gonna vote "No" - that is assuming any of those people actually exist...
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knightintosh
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Re: Scotland independance - YES or NO - VOTE

Post by knightintosh » Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:50 pm

clarance wrote:
However if I, as an Englishman, had the vote I would certianly vote 'no' - to lose Scotland and it's left wing block of votes come the General election will be a minor disaster from a socialist point of view - and it will mean the southern right-wing power bloc will be even more prevelent and forced upon what's left of the Union.

So for this vote, as an English/British socialist, I vote NO.
I'm in Northern Ireland and I completely agree with this! It's scary to think how much more power the fascist far-right could wield without that huge block of voters in Scotland! So I voted no, not that it should be anyone's decision other than the Scots' obviously, and personally I just can't see it happening.
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r0jaws
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Re: Scotland independence - YES or NO - VOTE

Post by r0jaws » Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:17 pm

Food for thought...

Yes

No

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Re: Scotland independence - YES or NO - VOTE

Post by Liamh1982 » Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:16 am

I'm not the first person here to state their complete disillusionment with party politics and I'm sure I won't be the last.

From what I understand though even if the "No" vote wins, the Tories, Labour and the Lib Dems have agreed that the Scottish government should be further devolved. So the vote seems to me to be slightly greater autonomy or significantly greater (though still far from complete if Salmond gets his way and they're allowed to still use sterling) autonomy.

No wonder the polls are so close - I think they will stay part of the Union... just... but this definitely won't be the be-all and end-all regarding more referenda.

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Re: Scotland independence - YES or NO - VOTE

Post by flatapex » Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:35 am

I would vote no, for a couple of practical reasons:
1. the oil is a finite resource
2. passports needed to leave scotland
3. if england is classed as a foreign country are scots going to have to use their own online stores? have their own postal service? own web domains?
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Re: Scotland independance - YES or NO - VOTE

Post by flatapex » Tue Sep 09, 2014 3:37 am

the_hawk wrote:As a supporter of the Union, HELL NO!

However if Scotland do manage to free the shackles of that rat-bastad Cameron and his cronies, I am DEMANDING an Independent Republic of the North West of England be set up with Manchester being the centre of power.
as a passionate republican (much to the disgust of nearly everyone i know) and of course i live in manchester so that would suit me fine. we could have bez as president as he is
1. awesome
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joefish
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Re: Scotland independence - YES or NO - VOTE

Post by joefish » Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:24 am

I'd urge everyone to vote NO.

The yes campaign is the biggest load of nationalistic spin-based emotional appeal with no substance to it whatsoever. It's not about splitting from England; it's about splitting from the Tories. That's it. And maybe putting in some duty-free shops a bit closer to home. Personally I don't care either way. If it goes NO then I'd be glad to still all be part of the UK. If it goes YES then it's not my problem. I just wish more Scots would take an outsider's view of Salmond.

Scottish business owners are sh*tting themselves at what it will do to their businesses, but they know if they speak out then they're going to immediately lose all their local business. Salmond has no real plan for finances. He talks about sharing what will then be a foreign currency that he's been told and knows full well will not be shared. He's talking about defaulting on Scotland's share of the (current) national debt (which will see investment run from an independent Scotland like rats from a sinking Spain). He talks up oil and gas revenues, but the oil is running down and the gas fields, (though piped into Scotland), actually lie in what would become English waters. And he talks of a future in Europe - where Scotland will be at the absolute back of the queue to join the EU and will have to prove a stable economy for several years before it can do so.

But if you want to let a nationlistic fantasist ruin your part of the world, such that you and everyone you know is solely dependent on a niche employer in a time-limited industry with nothing coming along to replace it but rising unemployment, then that's your decision.

The only major difference I can see to the rest of the UK is a loss of Labour seats and more Tory governments, but at least an end to this horsesh*t blaming everyone south of the border for anything wrong with what's north of it.

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Re: Scotland independence - YES or NO - VOTE

Post by pratty » Tue Sep 09, 2014 4:43 pm

I really haven't been following this at all, so haven't thought it through enough to vote, there's so many factors to consider.

So Scotland will really become a seperate nation then? Wow, I thought it was just about having more administrative independance, sort of like Hong Kong's relationship to China, one nation, two sytems.

I wonder if this means I'll have dual citizenship, as I live in England, am basically 'English', but was born in Scotland. Or will I be booted out of England? :lol: Or need a Visa to stay here?
Nemesis wrote:I'm proud to be British. I'm British 1st and English 2nd. We're all on one Island (apart from N.Ireland) and like the fact you can go to all four corners of the UK and experience different views and cultures without needing a passport.
I pretty much feel this way too.

I think nations are important, in order for freedom people need options, that's why I wouldn't be keen on a world government. I don't like the idea of the EU either, people need more alternatives, if the rules are the same everywhere, then where else can you go if you don't like how things are being run?

But where do you draw the line, why not split England up by their counties, and then their cities and so on? I think the fact the UK is an island gives us a natural border and size. Equally though I think it's important for freedom that people have the option to disassociate themselves from others if they so choose. If a part of the nation wants to break away I guess they have every right to.

I wonder though if they vote yes, will there be a sizable exodus of Scots coming south before it finalises? And I wonder if in time they'll eventually consider themselves British/English in terms of their national identity?
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Matt_B
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Re: Scotland independence - YES or NO - VOTE

Post by Matt_B » Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:11 pm

The big problem here is that most Scottish Nationalists don't really want total independence, but rather devo-max. However, the British government tried to kick the debate on that into touch by offering an in-out referendum, with no option for staying in the Union but with greater autonomy. Even so, it remains the case that it'd be much easier for Scotland to negotiate down from a position of total independence than to gradually wring further concessions out of Westminster, so I'm not surprised that the Yes campaign has snowballed.

Meanwhile, the No campaign has basically got to the stage where its only effective tactics are scare stories - some of which might have validity but I'd struggle to think of any newly independent developed nations that foundered in such a fashion as is predicted - and flat out bribery. Still, it seems like Scotland is going to get a highly autonomous government out of this, so it's win-win either way for the SNP; they just get a much stronger bargaining position with a Yes vote.

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r0jaws
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Re: Scotland independence - YES or NO - VOTE

Post by r0jaws » Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:19 pm

One thing that puzzles me. The SNP is claiming 10% of all UK assets in the event of independence, military, banking, foreign office etc. However, they are also claiming 90% of the Oil based on Geography. Well the Bank of England is Geographically in London, so if they want a currency Union and an equal split on all assets, that should apply to the oil too, which is currently a UK, not Scottish asset. Which would mean that they would be entitled to 10% of that particular asset.

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rossi46
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Re: Scotland independence - YES or NO - VOTE

Post by rossi46 » Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:28 pm

Matt_B wrote:The big problem here is that most Scottish Nationalists don't really want total independence, but rather devo-max.
I agree with much of what you said, but I'd like to see your source of info for this. 100% of the nats I know are fighting passionately for the Independent Scotland that we've dreamed of for years.
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gunbladelad
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Re: Scotland independence - YES or NO - VOTE

Post by gunbladelad » Tue Sep 09, 2014 5:29 pm

r0jaws wrote:One thing that puzzles me. The SNP is claiming 10% of all UK assets in the event of independence, military, banking, foreign office etc. However, they are also claiming 90% of the Oil based on Geography. Well the Bank of England is Geographically in London, so if they want a currency Union and an equal split on all assets, that should apply to the oil too, which is currently a UK, not Scottish asset. Which would mean that they would be entitled to 10% of that particular asset.
The Bank of England is headquartered in London - however, 90% of the North Sea oil fields are in Scottish waters. Are you suggesting that England illegally annexes over 80% of the eastern Scottish coastline?

To be honest there's far too much focus on what the oil will or won't accomplish - there's countless small countries out there that are massively successful - all without oil.
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