Is the forum in decline?

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Crusty Starfish
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Re: Is the forum in decline?

Post by Crusty Starfish » Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:35 pm

Sounds like a fun time back then.
:lol:

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Re: Is the forum in decline?

Post by Antiriad2097 » Wed Sep 18, 2019 4:58 pm

Sputryk missed the part where the people were banned, then the rules were changed retrospectively to apply to them. People were banned for 'breaking' rules that didn't yet exist and couldn't know were on the horizon.

On the upside, JPishgar and his team are doing a great job now, always dropping in and coming up with things to keep the community alive.
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Re: Is the forum in decline?

Post by NickThorpe » Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:58 am

I do love a bit of revisionist history.

Everyone that was banned during that incident in 2017 was banned under the rule that prohibited hate speech. This rule had been in place longer than I've been with the company.

We then added a new rule banning the discussion of politics. If we were banning all political discussion and then retroactively applying that ban, everyone that had posted in those threads would have been banned. That's not what happened. The long-term misrepresentation of what did happen is irritating as all hell.
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pratty
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Re: Is the forum in decline?

Post by pratty » Fri Sep 20, 2019 7:54 am

NickThorpe wrote:
Thu Sep 19, 2019 10:58 am
Everyone that was banned during that incident in 2017 was banned under the rule that prohibited hate speech. This rule had been in place longer than I've been with the company.

We then added a new rule banning the discussion of politics.
Thing is, gaming is becoming increasingly political, with some developers and journalists acting like activists for specific political and social agendas. In one respect a haven where the gameplay and such of a game is the the main focus of discussion may actually be a refreshing alternative to other virtue-signalling games sites. Though I think it's a shame such a focus is forced from the top down, as though legitimate comment/criticism and hate are indistinguishable, as implied by the complete banning of political and religious discussion following an occurance of hate speech.
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Re: Is the forum in decline?

Post by merman » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:14 am

Most forums have guidelines about discussing politics and religion. To blame that for this forum's decline is ridiculous.


And yes, games are political. All art is political. Whether it's Leonardo creating statues (and war machines) for an Italian duke, or Damien Hirst creating his diamond skull funded by an Arab, art reflects and reports on society. Goya's paintings about war. War poems. Even a beat 'em up like Final Fight has something to say about urban decay, capitalism & gender politics.
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Re: Is the forum in decline?

Post by Matt_B » Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:23 am

Yeah, stuff politics in video games.

I'm off to play Papers Please. :)

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Re: Is the forum in decline?

Post by pratty » Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:36 am

merman wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:14 am
Most forums have guidelines about discussing politics and religion. To blame that for this forum's decline is ridiculous.


And yes, games are political. All art is political. Whether it's Leonardo creating statues (and war machines) for an Italian duke, or Damien Hirst creating his diamond skull funded by an Arab, art reflects and reports on society. Goya's paintings about war. War poems. Even a beat 'em up like Final Fight has something to say about urban decay, capitalism & gender politics.
And so those games, or at least the political aspects of them, cannot be discussed?
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Re: Is the forum in decline?

Post by Nin10dofan » Sat Sep 21, 2019 2:02 am

merman wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:14 am
Most forums have guidelines about discussing politics and religion. To blame that for this forum's decline is ridiculous.


And yes, games are political. All art is political. Whether it's Leonardo creating statues (and war machines) for an Italian duke, or Damien Hirst creating his diamond skull funded by an Arab, art reflects and reports on society. Goya's paintings about war. War poems. Even a beat 'em up like Final Fight has something to say about urban decay, capitalism & gender politics.
I only started watching this forum 2 years ago. It does not look like it in decline. I think maybe there's a lot of different forums. you know like I'd say people are watching 20 or 30 forums I watch nintendo life, a spectrum forum and some computer mag fourms . Which sounds really brilliant 😁😁😁😁😐

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Re: Is the forum in decline?

Post by merman » Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:24 pm

pratty wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 9:36 am
merman wrote:
Fri Sep 20, 2019 8:14 am
Most forums have guidelines about discussing politics and religion. To blame that for this forum's decline is ridiculous.


And yes, games are political. All art is political. Whether it's Leonardo creating statues (and war machines) for an Italian duke, or Damien Hirst creating his diamond skull funded by an Arab, art reflects and reports on society. Goya's paintings about war. War poems. Even a beat 'em up like Final Fight has something to say about urban decay, capitalism & gender politics.
And so those games, or at least the political aspects of them, cannot be discussed?
You can discuss the games and how they play, why you like/dislike aspects of them. It's when the discussion turns to real-world politics and religion (or their depiction in the game) that you need to be careful on how you word your comments.
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Re: Is the forum in decline?

Post by pratty » Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:06 pm

merman wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:24 pm
You can discuss the games and how they play, why you like/dislike aspects of them. It's when the discussion turns to real-world politics and religion (or their depiction in the game) that you need to be careful on how you word your comments.
I appreciate your answer as an attempt to find some middle ground and wiggle room, but that is not what the rules say. As they are I'd say the rules strongly discourage the discussion of anything remotely political or religious. And the politically motivated actions of developers and journalists are themselves real-world events.

For example, condoning an act of a developer considered by some to be politically incorrect, such as The Witcher featuring all white characters to reflect it's setting, may risk being considered an example of "racist comments in any form". Even if a political or religious related comment is deemed acceptable, it's less likely to be made in the first place to avoid the risk of a permanent ban.
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Re: Is the forum in decline?

Post by psj3809 » Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:26 pm

Come on fella. Sounds like you’re being difficult.

If a games released and it’s called Brexit Religion Politics Simulator by Codemasters I’m sure we can chat about the gameplay if people were that bored. But anything else is pushing it

I’m sure most people here want to play fun games and also retro ones. I can’t believe anyone’s going to have chats just to be difficult eg the Witcher example which seems OTT about white characters.

Tons of other sites or Facebook to have chats about all white characters in Witcher if people are that fussed

The rest is just common sense about what to talk about

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Re: Is the forum in decline?

Post by pratty » Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:27 pm

psj3809 wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:26 pm
Come on fella. Sounds like you’re being difficult.
I don't think so. This thread is to discuss whether the forum is in decline or not, and presumably to discuss why that may or may not be.

Merman said that the forums guidelines aren't to blame, and you yourself have just said that there are other places to discuss that which cannot be discussed here. Perhaps the forum is in decline because the scope of discussion has been narrowed? Reduced scope for discussion = less discussion. Less discussion = fewer members. Less censorious forum alternatives = fewer members. Fewer members = less discussion. Seems logical to me. It may not be the only reason but it could well be a contributing factor.
psj3809 wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:26 pm
If a games released and it’s called Brexit Religion Politics Simulator by Codemasters I’m sure we can chat about the gameplay if people were that bored. But anything else is pushing it.
Merman quite rightly highlighted the value of art to convey political and religious commentary, but to discuss the political or religious aspects of video games on this gaming forum, regardless of the content of that comment, is "pushing it".

Imagine if the next big sci fi game explored a prominent theme of the origin of man and/or the universe, calling conventional religious teaching into question in the process. What a fascinating theme. Hasn't the potential of videogames as art come a long way from the likes of Pong? But the best we can say about the game on here is "Looks good... plays decent..." etc. How sad is that?
psj3809 wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:26 pm
I’m sure most people here want to play fun games and also retro ones. I can’t believe anyone’s going to have chats just to be difficult eg the Witcher example which seems OTT about white characters.
Since when is discussing the artistic choices of games developers "just being difficult"? I'm not saying we need more race discussion, I'm saying we shouldn't be terrified to talk about any artistic choice, or the criticism there of, wherever it leads, even if there is a political or religious aspect to it.

I'm not expecting the rules to change, I'm saying we shouldn't be surprised the forum is in decline since it's less than optimal for a complete games discussion.
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Matt_B
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Re: Is the forum in decline?

Post by Matt_B » Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:25 am

pratty wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:06 pm
For example, condoning an act of a developer considered by some to be politically incorrect, such as The Witcher featuring all white characters to reflect it's setting, may risk being considered an example of "racist comments in any form". Even if a political or religious related comment is deemed acceptable, it's less likely to be made in the first place to avoid the risk of a permanent ban.
For what it's worth, the setting of the Witcher doesn't preclude human characters of different races and there are indeed a few of them in the games and the novels they're based on. It's more just a case of Polish games for Polish audiences becoming breakthrough hits and reaching international audiences with differing expectations.

It's storm in a teacup stuff, basically. The people looking to make something political about it are probably telling you more about themselves than the games.

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Re: Is the forum in decline?

Post by Megamixer » Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:09 pm

pratty wrote:
Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:27 pm
Perhaps the forum is in decline because the scope of discussion has been narrowed? Reduced scope for discussion = less discussion. Less discussion = fewer members. Less censorious forum alternatives = fewer members. Fewer members = less discussion. Seems logical to me. It may not be the only reason but it could well be a contributing factor.
I can only speak for myself but any form of discussion arena where there are rules saying "you can't talk about this" (or rules to that effect) does turn me off. I don't really WANT to get into the big political arguments or raging wars that used to happen on here but it's all part of freedom of speech. I think some people took things way too personally and started flinging insults which didn't help. Neither did off-topic arguments invading gaming threads but I had no problem with those being checked as it was unfair to those trying to discuss the original topic.

If I go into the Off-Topic section of ANY forum, then I expect to be greeted by anything and everything. As ever, don't get involved in a debate or look at topics if you know it will only rile you up or upset you. Places of discussion that ban specific topics are just deeply flawed in my opinion.

It's all elementary now though. The current rules are the rules and that's fair enough.
Retro is a state of mind, and cares not for your puny concepts like dates and calendars.

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Re: Is the forum in decline?

Post by psj3809 » Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:45 am

I can see why they shut all that stuff down, i did enjoy lots of the controversial stuff i must admit but at times the Off topic arguments was bigger than any retro chat here. Nowadays Facebook is more popular for discussions than forums so if i want to argue about Brexit/Labour/Tories/Religion theres plenty of places to argue on Facebook about that rather than a retro games forum.

And yeah lots of those threads just caused huge arguments/reported posts/hassle for the mods etc so you can see why they've acted like that. But plenty of other places to argue about white characters in Witcher if you really are that bored to do that

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