So, Who Killed Kennedy?

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adippm82
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Re: So, Who Killed Kennedy?

Post by adippm82 » Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:37 pm

I watched the interesting documentary JFK: The Real Killers on Channel 5, it used it's fair share of forensic science to prove there was no magic bullet, Governor Connelly was sitting lower down, and further in the car than the whole scene in the JFK film, so it is perfectly feasible the bullet travelled in the way it did, they also put forward the theory JFK was hit by two different guns, the 6.5mm weapon of Oswald and a different and more powerful 6mm shot from behind, and at ground level, this fragmented as it entered his skull, with parts of it travelling through his brain, lodging behind his eye, the majority of the bullet exited through his right temple, the pressure as it did so, blowing out the top right of his skull, it theorises that this was not the work of an assassin, but an awful accident by an agent in the following car.

So the timeline they proposed went something like this, as the motorcade turned into the plaza, Oswald was watching out the window, he ejected a blank cartridge used to keep the breach clean, this went further away than the other two cases later recovered, he then took his position behind some boxes, and levelled the gun, his first shot missed, down in the motorcade, the loud shot alerted the Secret Service agents following behind, both Lynden Johnson's car and a press car behind had people that testified that one agent stood and looked behind and up, one suggesting his gaze fixed on something, he turned and reached down into the car, by this time Oswald fired again, this shot hit the president in the neck, passing through and seriously injured the Governor, back in the Motorcade, the witnesses reported the Secret Agent standing back up with a rifle in hand, there is now a third shot, and both cars report a smell of gunpowder,this could not have come from the window above, as it was too high up, and the wind would have taken it away, one of the press officers noted the agent now had his eyes fixed forward on the president.

The conclusion is that the Agent went for the gun in the bottom of the car to return fire, it only needed the safety catch to come off, but the car lurched, the catch was already off, and the weapon fired, killing the president.

The Secret Service were never going to admit they killed their own president, so they needed to silence Oswald before he was able to say he only fired twice, they refused to let the Dallas coroner perform the autopsy, and were all present at the one back in Washington, no blood spatter tests were carried out on any vehicle, and no clothes were taken from the agents, some of whom were covered in blood and brain matter.

Ballistic tests on a similar automatic weapon to the one in the car caused the same damage on a dummies head as happened to Kennedy, Oswald's rifle did not.

This program and others I have seen also debunk the theory that Oswald was a poor shot, he was more than capable of unleashing all three rounds with a great degree of accuracy, and his wife would often watch him firing round after round after round, very fast and with a very smooth bolt action.

I also have no time for Stone's JFK film, purely because when you start adding characters for 'dramatic effect' then it loses all credibility for me, as well as getting the magic bullet theory totally wrong.

Whether or not the Agent had time to do all he was supposed to have done in just a few seconds was not really explored in the programme, and it did raise more questions, like why is there no film or photos of anyone looking at the Agent's car as surely the people around would know a shot had come from there, but also the agents all said there were only side arms in the vehicle, but as the two cars drove to the hospital there is one photo of an agent holding a rifle aloft, two agents acknowledged the presence of the rifle later.

If there was a conspiracy then this is as good as any, a real assassin, helped by a terrible, tragic accident, but with all the Secret Service files destroyed we will never know for sure
Last edited by adippm82 on Mon Dec 02, 2013 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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SoupDragon
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Re: So, Who Killed Kennedy?

Post by SoupDragon » Mon Dec 02, 2013 5:51 pm

I enjoyed Parkland for what its worth (nothing). Where was Kevin Bacon though? I thought he was in it? :?
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paranoid marvin
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Re: So, Who Killed Kennedy?

Post by paranoid marvin » Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:44 am

adippm82 wrote:I watched the interesting documentary JFK: The Real Killers on Channel 5, it used it's fair share of forensic science to prove there was no magic bullet, Governor Connelly was sitting lower down, and further in the car than the whole scene in the JFK film, so it is perfectly feasible the bullet travelled in the way it did, they also put forward the theory JFK was hit by two different guns, the 6.5mm weapon of Oswald and a different and more powerful 6mm shot from behind, and at ground level, this fragmented as it entered his skull, with parts of it travelling through his brain, lodging behind his eye, the majority of the bullet exited through his right temple, the pressure as it did so, blowing out the top right of his skull, it theorises that this was not the work of an assassin, but an awful accident by an agent in the following car.

So the timeline they proposed went something like this, as the motorcade turned into the plaza, Oswald was watching out the window, he ejected a blank cartridge used to keep the breach clean, this went further away than the other two cases later recovered, he then took his position behind some boxes, and levelled the gun, his first shot missed, down in the motorcade, the loud shot alerted the Secret Service agents following behind, both Lynden Johnson's car and a press car behind had people that testified that one agent stood and looked behind and up, one suggesting his gaze fixed on something, he turned and reached down into the car, by this time Oswald fired again, this shot hit the president in the neck, passing through and seriously injured the Governor, back in the Motorcade, the witnesses reported the Secret Agent standing back up with a rifle in hand, there is now a third shot, and both cars report a smell of gunpowder,this could not have come from the window above, as it was too high up, and the wind would have taken it away, one of the press officers noted the agent now had his eyes fixed forward on the president.

The conclusion is that the Agent went for the gun in the bottom of the car to return fire, it only needed the safety catch to come off, but the car lurched, the catch was already off, and the weapon fired, killing the president.

The Secret Service were never going to admit they killed their own president, so they needed to silence Oswald before he was able to say he only fired twice, they refused to let the Dallas coroner perform the autopsy, and were all present at the one back in Washington, no blood spatter tests were carried out on any vehicle, and no clothes were taken from the agents, some of whom were covered in blood and brain matter.

Ballistic tests on a similar automatic weapon to the one in the car caused the same damage on a dummies head as happened to Kennedy, Oswald's rifle did not.

This program and others I have seen also debunk the theory that Oswald was a poor shot, he was more than capable of unleashing all three rounds with a great degree of accuracy, and his wife would often watch him firing round after round after round, very fast and with a very smooth bolt action.

I also have no time for Stone's JFK film, purely because when you start adding characters for 'dramatic effect' then it loses all credibility for me, as well as getting the magic bullet theory totally wrong.

Whether or not the Agent had time to do all he was supposed to have done in just a few seconds was not really explored in the programme, and it did raise more questions, like why is there no film or photos of anyone looking at the Agent's car as surely the people around would know a shot had come from there, but also the agents all said there were only side arms in the vehicle, but as the two cars drove to the hospital there is one photo of an agent holding a rifle aloft, two agents acknowledged the presence of the rifle later.

If there was a conspiracy then this is as good as any, a real assassin, helped by a terrible, tragic accident, but with all the Secret Service files destroyed we will never know for sure
Interesting theory. As it was the President's car , you have to question whether they would only have a handful of handguns to protect him. Doesn't sound at all plausible.
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Re: So, Who Killed Kennedy?

Post by gman72 » Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:51 pm

All the secret service agents had a fire arm but only one had an automatic rifle which had an explosive bullet and the guy that had the rifle was two cars behind. I saw that program and thought it was a very plausible theory, it would also go a long way to explaining why there was a cover up... If indeed there was a cover up.
“To gain your own voice, you have to forget about having it heard.” —Allen Ginsberg, WD

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Re: So, Who Killed Kennedy?

Post by greenberet79 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:41 am

adippm82 wrote:I watched the interesting documentary JFK: The Real Killers on Channel 5, it used it's fair share of forensic science to prove there was no magic bullet, Governor Connelly was sitting lower down, and further in the car than the whole scene in the JFK film, so it is perfectly feasible the bullet travelled in the way it did, they also put forward the theory JFK was hit by two different guns, the 6.5mm weapon of Oswald and a different and more powerful 6mm shot from behind, and at ground level, this fragmented as it entered his skull, with parts of it travelling through his brain, lodging behind his eye, the majority of the bullet exited through his right temple, the pressure as it did so, blowing out the top right of his skull, it theorises that this was not the work of an assassin, but an awful accident by an agent in the following car.

So the timeline they proposed went something like this, as the motorcade turned into the plaza, Oswald was watching out the window, he ejected a blank cartridge used to keep the breach clean, this went further away than the other two cases later recovered, he then took his position behind some boxes, and levelled the gun, his first shot missed, down in the motorcade, the loud shot alerted the Secret Service agents following behind, both Lynden Johnson's car and a press car behind had people that testified that one agent stood and looked behind and up, one suggesting his gaze fixed on something, he turned and reached down into the car, by this time Oswald fired again, this shot hit the president in the neck, passing through and seriously injured the Governor, back in the Motorcade, the witnesses reported the Secret Agent standing back up with a rifle in hand, there is now a third shot, and both cars report a smell of gunpowder,this could not have come from the window above, as it was too high up, and the wind would have taken it away, one of the press officers noted the agent now had his eyes fixed forward on the president.

The conclusion is that the Agent went for the gun in the bottom of the car to return fire, it only needed the safety catch to come off, but the car lurched, the catch was already off, and the weapon fired, killing the president.

The Secret Service were never going to admit they killed their own president, so they needed to silence Oswald before he was able to say he only fired twice, they refused to let the Dallas coroner perform the autopsy, and were all present at the one back in Washington, no blood spatter tests were carried out on any vehicle, and no clothes were taken from the agents, some of whom were covered in blood and brain matter.

Ballistic tests on a similar automatic weapon to the one in the car caused the same damage on a dummies head as happened to Kennedy, Oswald's rifle did not.

This program and others I have seen also debunk the theory that Oswald was a poor shot, he was more than capable of unleashing all three rounds with a great degree of accuracy, and his wife would often watch him firing round after round after round, very fast and with a very smooth bolt action.

I also have no time for Stone's JFK film, purely because when you start adding characters for 'dramatic effect' then it loses all credibility for me, as well as getting the magic bullet theory totally wrong.

Whether or not the Agent had time to do all he was supposed to have done in just a few seconds was not really explored in the programme, and it did raise more questions, like why is there no film or photos of anyone looking at the Agent's car as surely the people around would know a shot had come from there, but also the agents all said there were only side arms in the vehicle, but as the two cars drove to the hospital there is one photo of an agent holding a rifle aloft, two agents acknowledged the presence of the rifle later.

If there was a conspiracy then this is as good as any, a real assassin, helped by a terrible, tragic accident, but with all the Secret Service files destroyed we will never know for sure
Very interesting. I know JFK the film was mostly nonsense. I also read American Tabloid which IIRC made it out to be a mix of the CIA and the mafia.

If it was an accident then that just adds to the tragedy really - I wonder what the world would have been like if it hadn't happened?
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gman72
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Re: So, Who Killed Kennedy?

Post by gman72 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:48 pm

American Tabloid is a great read, and yes, as you say it paints a similar scenario to the JFK movie.
Im reading a book at the moment called The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ by a chap named Roger Stone.
http://jfkfacts.org/assassination/poll/ ... dismissed/
Im not very far into into but so far it is a riveting read because of Stones insights into the inner workings of the American government at the time. He has actually worked within the White House for many years starting I believe in the Nixon administration. This naturally doesn't mean his theories are right but it does give his work an authenticity many others lack. Give it a read. :D
“To gain your own voice, you have to forget about having it heard.” —Allen Ginsberg, WD

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