Vegetarians!

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Sephiroth81
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Re: Vegetarians!

Post by Sephiroth81 » Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:32 am

RodimusPrime wrote:
Adding other stuff besides a lot of meat obviously :D

But, seriously typed it out a bit quick. I meant cut down on eating too much meat and have a more varied diet. still eat meat. but mix it up a little. you can eat meat and still have an incrdibly healthy diet. the problem is that some people rely on meat too much.
I think most animal activists, environmentalists, vegetarians and vegans already welcome meat eaters cutting back on their meat consumption. I would never discourage people going the "whole hog" (bad pun) and going fully to a plant based diet, but if they were to even cut back and eat meat a couple to few times a week, this would hugely help their own health, as well as reducing their carbon footprint and the overall demand for meat.

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crusto
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Re: Vegetarians!

Post by crusto » Sat Aug 01, 2015 4:35 pm

Sephiroth81 wrote:
RodimusPrime wrote:
Adding other stuff besides a lot of meat obviously :D

But, seriously typed it out a bit quick. I meant cut down on eating too much meat and have a more varied diet. still eat meat. but mix it up a little. you can eat meat and still have an incrdibly healthy diet. the problem is that some people rely on meat too much.
I think most animal activists, environmentalists, vegetarians and vegans already welcome meat eaters cutting back on their meat consumption. I would never discourage people going the "whole hog" (bad pun) and going fully to a plant based diet, but if they were to even cut back and eat meat a couple to few times a week, this would hugely help their own health, as well as reducing their carbon footprint and the overall demand for meat.
I'm not sure if this has been discussed already here or not but there's no way I'm checking all these pages..

If there was to be a large swing in people's diets and meat became a product in far less demand wouldn't we have a similar problem? Too many people, not enough veg to go round etc etc.
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Sephiroth81
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Re: Vegetarians!

Post by Sephiroth81 » Sat Aug 01, 2015 8:20 pm

crusto wrote:
I'm not sure if this has been discussed already here or not but there's no way I'm checking all these pages..

If there was to be a large swing in people's diets and meat became a product in far less demand wouldn't we have a similar problem? Too many people, not enough veg to go round etc etc.
It's far more efficient growing vegetables and grains just for humans. 80% of grains grown in the US goes to livestock.

Vegetables are easy to produce and require less energy and water and the yields are much quicker.

Cattle is particularly intense on resources. A swing to a Plants based diet would certainly be more efficient.

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silvergunner
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Re: Vegetarians!

Post by silvergunner » Sun Aug 02, 2015 3:33 am

But what of most if the planets population turned veggie. That's a few billion all needing feeding. Surely there has to be a limit to what we can produce, specially has soil only stays fertile for so long before needing to be left fallow.
Last edited by silvergunner on Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Vegetarians!

Post by Antiriad2097 » Sun Aug 02, 2015 4:26 am

You missed the point. It takes more plants to feed the cows than it would to just feed plants to the people. We'd potentially be growing less.
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RodimusPrime
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Re: Vegetarians!

Post by RodimusPrime » Sun Aug 02, 2015 4:47 am

Antiriad2097 wrote:You missed the point. It takes more plants to feed the cows than it would to just feed plants to the people. We'd potentially be growing less.
I think the point he is making is that the crops we grow for animals are far less resource heavy. We would not be directly replacing humans with animals so the grain going to animals would not be a switch to humans.

If we gave up meat, we would have to grow more crops that require a lot more care and resources, and these destroy the soils ability to produce nutrients after a few crops. Plus they are unable to be grown in a lot of areas.

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Re: Vegetarians!

Post by RodimusPrime » Sun Aug 02, 2015 4:52 am

Sephiroth81 wrote:
crusto wrote:
I'm not sure if this has been discussed already here or not but there's no way I'm checking all these pages..

If there was to be a large swing in people's diets and meat became a product in far less demand wouldn't we have a similar problem? Too many people, not enough veg to go round etc etc.
It's far more efficient growing vegetables and grains just for humans. 80% of grains grown in the US goes to livestock.

Vegetables are easy to produce and require less energy and water and the yields are much quicker.

Cattle is particularly intense on resources. A swing to a Plants based diet would certainly be more efficient.

80%, any chance of a source. Not saying you are wrong its just that I find it odd.

Wheat as a grain is grown mor than just about any other crop, and is I think 2nd only to rice, and its only used sparingly for cattle as its not really recommended, espacially for cows. this plus the fact the US imports over 50% of its grain to other countries where ots used for human consumption makes that figure seem a little high. especially as only 10% of wheat is used for for livestock consumption in the US.

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Sephiroth81
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Re: Vegetarians!

Post by Sephiroth81 » Sun Aug 02, 2015 4:34 pm

RodimusPrime wrote:
80%, any chance of a source. Not saying you are wrong its just that I find it odd.

Wheat as a grain is grown mor than just about any other crop, and is I think 2nd only to rice, and its only used sparingly for cattle as its not really recommended, espacially for cows. this plus the fact the US imports over 50% of its grain to other countries where ots used for human consumption makes that figure seem a little high. especially as only 10% of wheat is used for for livestock consumption in the US.
Rodimus - fair enough shout for a source. As I said before, I stopped really citing sources on here because I felt people were not reading anyway, but always happy to pass sources on upon request. I've read various ranges from 70-80% of grains (grown used by livestock in the US) being touted on various places.

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/travel/is ... 07/?no-ist

This one states 80% of corn, and 95% of oats.

http://www.worldwatch.org/node/549 - 70% of grain produced in the united states goes towards livestock, much of it cattle.

Its staggering how much livestock is fed food like this, when really they should be grass-fed, but the demand for meat is just so high, that grass-fed cattle is just not feasible with a 7bn population with such an appetite for beef. We have to be realistic.

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RodimusPrime
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Re: Vegetarians!

Post by RodimusPrime » Sun Aug 02, 2015 4:53 pm

Sames source says that cattle only use a 3rd of all grain produced worldwide.

http://www.worldwatch.org/node/5539

Now considering the US produce most of it, and most of what they grow goes to cattle, it certainly seems like its a problem that the US have a far bigger problem than the rest of the world does.

If you take into account that the US produce more grain than anyone else, then give 80% of that to cattle. yet the worldwide total given to cattle is around a 3rd. logic dictates that if you remove the US from the equation then the percentage would be even lower for the rest of the world. maybe as low as 1/5.


Considering the dietry habits of the US and how important meat is, it certainly looks like one country is the main culprit.


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Skrunch
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Re: Vegetarians!

Post by Skrunch » Sun Aug 02, 2015 5:14 pm

My father happens to be a butcher so such an attempt would result in a lot of mockery due to the bags of free meat he takes home each week.

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Sephiroth81
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Re: Vegetarians!

Post by Sephiroth81 » Sun Aug 02, 2015 6:28 pm

RodimusPrime wrote:Sames source says that cattle only use a 3rd of all grain produced worldwide.

http://www.worldwatch.org/node/5539

Now considering the US produce most of it, and most of what they grow goes to cattle, it certainly seems like its a problem that the US have a far bigger problem than the rest of the world does.

If you take into account that the US produce more grain than anyone else, then give 80% of that to cattle. yet the worldwide total given to cattle is around a 3rd. logic dictates that if you remove the US from the equation then the percentage would be even lower for the rest of the world. maybe as low as 1/5.


Considering the dietry habits of the US and how important meat is, it certainly looks like one country is the main culprit.
I
I did specify the US from the outset, but its still a global problem/travesty - and their problem is all our problems. Globally the WWF says 40% of grain is produced for livestock, with more developed countries averaging around 70%. Also, water used for livestock production is projected to increase 50% by 2025. It currently accounts for 15% of all irrigated water. Its an astonishing waste.

Just the american output alone, we are talking about enough grain to feed 800m people. Yes, as with global warming and many things, the US shoulder the biggest responsibility, but even without the US a huge amount is wasted fattening up (and sickening) cattle and other livestock. Also its an ecological disaster, globally the meat industry generates nearly 1/5 of greenhouse gases (GHGs), more than transport.

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Re: Vegetarians!

Post by aztecca » Mon Aug 03, 2015 6:31 pm

Had a semi veggie meal tonight kind of.

Quorn chicken pieces cooked with panceta and a rocket salad with apple in it.Was well tasty.
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Sephiroth81
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Re: Vegetarians!

Post by Sephiroth81 » Tue Aug 04, 2015 5:05 pm

aztecca wrote:Had a semi veggie meal tonight kind of.

Quorn chicken pieces cooked with panceta and a rocket salad with apple in it.Was well tasty.
Thats like saying I had a semi-veggie snack in a bacon sandwich for lunch.....well the bread is vegetarian :P

You may be missing the point, but I suspect you may be doing on purpose, bless ya!

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Re: Vegetarians!

Post by Sephiroth81 » Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:29 am

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 133148.htm

Interesting article about how "carbs" and starch based diet could have been potentially the reason for the large expansion of human brains. Sadly though, there is a lot of ignorance due to "fad diets" over what "carbs" means....so many will assume "what, bread and pasta??". I think our brains developed through a combination of factors and lifestyle, but certainly a rich carbohydrate diet of leafy green vegetables, root vegetables, nuts, beans, fruits as well as grains (the latter seems to be the one most people tend to associate "carbs" with, which is sad and why so many bad diets have been created and negative connotation for that word "carbohydrates").

"Understanding how and why we evolved such large brains is one of the most puzzling issues in the study of human evolution. It is widely accepted that brain size increase is partly linked to changes in diet over the last 3 million years, and increases in meat consumption and the development of cooking have received particular attention from the scientific community. In a new study published in The Quarterly Review of Biology, Dr. Karen Hardy and her team bring together archaeological, anthropological, genetic, physiological and anatomical data to argue that carbohydrate consumption, particularly in the form of starch, was critical for the accelerated expansion of the human brain over the last million years, and coevolved both with copy number variation of the salivary amylase genes and controlled fire use for cooking.

With global increase in obesity and diet-related metabolic diseases, interest has intensified in ancestral or ‘Palaeolithic’ diets, not least because — to a first order of approximation — human physiology should be optimized for the nutritional profiles we have experienced during our evolution. Up until now, there has been a heavy focus on the role of animal protein and cooking in the development of the human brain over the last 2 million years, and the importance of carbohydrate, particular in form of starch-rich plant foods, has been largely overlooked."

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Re: Vegetarians!

Post by DPrinny » Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:44 am

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