Formula 1 2013 season thread

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Hiro
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Re: Formula 1 2013 season thread

Post by Hiro » Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:27 pm

While I haven't liked Vettel's behaviour on the track several times (behind safety cars, when ordered by the team to slow down, when generally complaining when not everything goes smooth for him) I find some kinds of personal attacks quite excessive, if not totally unmotivated. He's not the kind of guy I'd want as a teammate, and I wouldn't place him in the F1 hall of fame of top drivers (yet), but it's not like he's some kind of unfair, cowardly or dangerous a**hole. I'm no fan of him, but I find that in certain comments there's just a lot of envy.
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Re: Formula 1 2013 season thread

Post by killbot » Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:43 pm

I think part of the problem with Vettel is that people don't feel he's earned it. Schumacher had several years of similar dominance ten years ago, but for several years before that he had sweated blood in Ferraris that weren't up to scratch. Before that he had dragged Benetton from a respectable front-of-the-midfield outfit who won occasional races to two driver's and one constructor's title. He deserved the dominance because he had put in the graft.

Vettel, by contrast, had one full year with Toro Rosso (during which, in his defence he impressively won a wet Italian GP) and was then flung into an Adrian Newey designed car that was, from halfway through his first season with the team, the fastest in F1 by some margin. I don't know anyone who doesn't feel Vettel is a superb driver but equally I think people feel he's being flattered at least a little by the car. He's steamrollering the likes of Kimi, Jenson, Lewis and Fernando when in reality they're probably much closer to him in terms of raw talent and pace than the history books are going to make it appear. That, I think, frustrates people. We have a strong line-up of great F1 drivers at the minute and all but one of them, by dint of being in the wrong car, aren't actually in a position to give us the exciting racing that we would expect from them.

Another thing that I've heard people complain about is the closeness of his relationship with the team. There's a general feeling that, having had this success without having had to work as hard as, say, Button to get it that he's become spoiled. Incidents like 'Multi 21' back this up, and give an impression of a guy who acts in his own interests at all times irrelevant of what other people want or need him to do. He seems to have the ear of the team's top brass to the extent that it often looks like Christian Horner is a mere figurehead and Vettel is actually calling the shots. I'm not sure that's true, but I can see why people think it.
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Re: Formula 1 2013 season thread

Post by Hiro » Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:26 am

And there are some good points there, but still... Vettel actually worked his way up for a couple of years, proving to be very fast at Toro Rosso and joining RB when they weren't dominant yet, but still a gamble.
And besides, how much has Hamilton earned it? He debuted in F1 on a McLaren and has always driven a top car, he really should be the last to speak.

In addition, at RB Vettel has almost always outperformed his teammate, and I don't think Mark Webber can be considered a poor driver at all. This does not justify neither the team's lenient attitude towards Vettel nor some of his behaviours on the track, but still to me many comments about him are out of place.
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Re: Formula 1 2013 season thread

Post by Prof Mango B Coconut » Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:37 am

killbot wrote:I think part of the problem with Vettel is that people don't feel he's earned it...
I've heard arguments like this, along with the "let's see how well he'd do in a Ferrari" and "because he's always up front, he'll be rubbish at overtaking" types of statement. They're all a mixture of sour grapes, faulty reasoning and jingoism.

It's not Red Bull's fault that all the other teams have produced comparatively uncompetitive cars and it's not Vettel's fault that he's able to exploit the performance advantage of his car. Indeed, if you think about it, Red Bull's success is the logical outcome of the millions upon millions of pounds Dietrich Mateschitz has invested in the team.

Now I'm not a Red Bull fan as I find it difficult to muster up much enthusiasm for a soft drink company's car. I'm not a big fan of Vettel either - but mostly because these periods of dominance in F1 lead to boring, predictable races. But to blame Vettel or Red Bull for their success is a nonsense. Who we should be blaming is the other big teams who have equal amounts of funding and resources but have consistently failed to deliver competitive cars.
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Re: Formula 1 2013 season thread

Post by Megamixer » Sun Oct 13, 2013 11:45 am

Vettel gets more from his equipment and the tyres than his teammate and that's the be all. If he really was 'overrated' then Mark Webber would be able to consistently match him and clearly, he can't. I'm not saying Webber is a bad driver of course (I was actually hoping he'd win the Japanese GP today) and he has had a lot of bad luck with accidents/DNF's that weren't his own doing.

Vettel will go down as one of the greats whether people like him or not. I'm saying that from a completely un-biased point of view because this many wins (and other statistics) will be impossible to ignore and 100% write-off beneath whatever excuse is most popular.

Gotta remember that there are many other drivers given top machinery who couldn't extract the best from it such as Kovaleinen (not sure I've spelt that right!) at McLaren so just being given the best car doesn't automatically bestow greatness.

Anyway...

I was hoping for a different winner today but it didn't turn out that way. It would have been nice to see Webber take the win but Grosjean was probably the driver of the day. What a start from the grid!
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Re: Formula 1 2013 season thread

Post by merman » Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:43 pm

Good drives from Sauber as well, they have done a nice job improving that car during the season.

And Grosjean really came of age today, showing pace and strategy.
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Re: Formula 1 2013 season thread

Post by Katzkatz » Sun Oct 13, 2013 1:14 pm

A pretty decent race - well allowing for the fact that it is difficult to pass at Suzuka and also that Korea was a bit boring! I really wanted Grosjean to win - but it wasn't to be! Still - he really put in a good performance today.

A shame that Hamilton got knocked out of the race so early on.

The Saubers have steadily improved over the course of the season. Really strong showing here. Guitiérrez had his best race so far - 7th.

Kudos to Kimi for that pass at the last chicane.

By the way - what the hell was up with the Williams drivers? That wasn't good! Williams are going no where fast - and there drivers nearly took each other out!

POSTSCRIPT - I just check the TV schedules for the UK, and the documentary Senna is on tonight at 22:20 on ITV 1. In case anyone hasn't already seen it.

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Re: Formula 1 2013 season thread

Post by Timothy Lumsden » Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:11 am

merman wrote:Good drives from Sauber as well, they have done a nice job improving that car during the season.

And Grosjean really came of age today, showing pace and strategy.
yer, Sauber really have been the surprise of the 2nd half of the season. the Hulk is great, but also Guitterez has upped his form a lot too.

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Re: Formula 1 2013 season thread

Post by psj3809 » Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:16 am

I'm not a 'hardcore' F1 fan but do enjoy watching the grand prix's, i'm a casual type of fan as i dont watch all the build up, normally tape the race and then fast forward to the start.

Last year or two i've got more bored with F1, with Vettel dominating its turned me off it more so can 'kinda' see what Hamilton is saying. I mean you look back to when Hamilton won it when it was on that final race and practically final corner and it was so exciting. Now when Vettel wins with about 4 or so races left its dull. Bit like the premiership when Man Utd used to win the title with weeks to go.

Hopefully it'll be more competitive next year and not just another Vettel championship

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Re: Formula 1 2013 season thread

Post by markopoloman » Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:40 am

I watched the qualifying and the race after I got in from Replay last night!

Was great to see Webber take Pole... but RedBull shafted him in the race. The radio transmissions were a dead giveaway when they said to Vettel he was only racing Grosjean. Webber was supposed to be on a 2 stop race - he thought he was on a 2 stop race - they changed him to a slower 3 stop to help Vettel win the race. I really wanted Webber to get past Grosjean earlier so that he could hunt Vettel down as after Vettel screamed over his radio telling his team to 'tell him to back off and not try overtaking me' when he knew Webber was on the hunt.

I always watch the after race stuff but for this race I waited for Button & Massa to cross the line then turned it off. Schumi the 2nd IS harming the sport (I know that isn't his fault, but non the less, it is harming it). The other teams had better pull their heads out of their backsides for 2014 - another Vettel title will turn even more fans away to something more exciting...
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Re: Formula 1 2013 season thread

Post by Megamixer » Mon Oct 14, 2013 12:52 pm

markopoloman wrote:I watched the qualifying and the race after I got in from Replay last night!

Was great to see Webber take Pole... but RedBull shafted him in the race. The radio transmissions were a dead giveaway when they said to Vettel he was only racing Grosjean. Webber was supposed to be on a 2 stop race - he thought he was on a 2 stop race - they changed him to a slower 3 stop to help Vettel win the race. I really wanted Webber to get past Grosjean earlier so that he could hunt Vettel down as after Vettel screamed over his radio telling his team to 'tell him to back off and not try overtaking me' when he knew Webber was on the hunt.

I always watch the after race stuff but for this race I waited for Button & Massa to cross the line then turned it off. Schumi the 2nd IS harming the sport (I know that isn't his fault, but non the less, it is harming it). The other teams had better pull their heads out of their backsides for 2014 - another Vettel title will turn even more fans away to something more exciting...
Have to admit that I was disappointed to see Webber held up so much by Grosjean as I would have enjoyed a Red Bull battle...if it had been allowed that is...

As for next year, I'm hoping that with the regulation changes, somebody can build a race winner out of the blue Brawn style and surprise everybody.

I'd like to Williams return to the front of all the teams but I also wouldn't mind seeing Merc or Lotus take a title or two.
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Re: Formula 1 2013 season thread

Post by Timothy Lumsden » Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:58 am

would be great to see Williams back at the sharp end. Still curious if Bottas is good or not. Maldonado has speed, but he's a bit of n0b really and doesn't have the discipline to make anything of it.

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Re: Formula 1 2013 season thread

Post by Joey » Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:43 pm

Caterham and Marrusia should join into one team. With their money combined they may not be as pointless as they are currently.

They could call themselves Materham.
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Re: Formula 1 2013 season thread

Post by Katzkatz » Thu Oct 24, 2013 4:26 pm

Don't forget to order your curry and mosquito nets for the India Grand Prix. Take a look at the following :-

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formul ... -back.html

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Re: Formula 1 2013 season thread

Post by markopoloman » Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:07 pm

Sounds great!! Well, they will have races in these places.

In other news, Today we find out if Sundays race will go ahead from the Indian courts! Apparently they class F1 as entertainment and not a sporting event so should pay entertainment tax (and have failed to pay 2012's bill.....

Hmmm bye bye India
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