Being unemployed going Orwelian!

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MattyC64c
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Being unemployed going Orwelian!

Post by MattyC64c » Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:15 am

On Monday 19 November the DWP changed the directgov job search site to the travesty now known as Universal Jobsmatch. This site is beyond a joke. It's supposed to be for 'everyone' to use, not just the unemployed. Unfortunately to use it properly you need to create a Government Gateway account and upload your CV, a serious privacy concern for anyone, employed or otherwise.

Take a look at this link: http://johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/2012/11 ... continues/

So if you're unemployed the jobcentre could try to force you by stealth to sign up to the jobsmatch site and view everything you do on it. If you don't you could lose your benefit. Funny thing is the DWP's own site flatly denies this: http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/universal-jobmatch-faqs.pdf

Q8. Does everyone have to register to search for jobs?
"No, but if not, jobseeker’s will not be able to access all the facilities listed in question 7"


Also the DWP have joined up with Monster which is an American company. So, all your details could potential go in to the public domain and be sold. Monster are not well know for the site security, they've been hacked in the past.

Also since Monster is American and in effect a 'third party', their storing of your data without your consent is a violation of the Data Protection act of 1998.

This is just plain wrong. Discuss...

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Liamh1982
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Re: Being unemployed going Orwelian!

Post by Liamh1982 » Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:42 am

As part of my Working Links programme I've had to sign up for this.
My problem isn't uploading my CV or any privacy issues - I'm not idiotic enough to reply to anything I don't trust 100% - it's simply that the site DOESN'T BLOODY WORK!!! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
Once your CV's on there it's supposed to be a one-click application like on Reed or Totaljobs. Click on the link - absolutely eff all happens!

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Re: Being unemployed going Orwelian!

Post by DPrinny » Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:22 am

It wasn't exactly the best before the change now its just annoying. "Search for a job" is pushed to the bottom.

All job search is now online threw THERE site, it logs everything you do on there, easier for people like me, but for the computer illiterate? What about those that have never touched one in there life? More people being put on an simple IT course? What if the system goes down?

There was even talk of now it being a card that you take to any shop and get it swiped to sign on.

Glad that I will (hopefully) have a job next year (I know I know ive been saying that every year, but I reckon this MMU one is a dead cert)

Only upgrade I can see that I liked was the "Change text size"

It should be kept as simple as a search bar

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shiftytigger
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Re: Being unemployed going Orwelian!

Post by shiftytigger » Thu Nov 29, 2012 12:15 pm

Well I was one of the lucky ones this week - singled out for a benefits sanction due to 'doubt' on my jobsearch. Firstly they kept me waiting for an hour with no communication.They complained that my jobsearch was very generic. I reminded them that by its very nature my jobsearch is generic as I have done the same work since I left school. Also limited by the nature of the jobs market - stagnant and with the same vacancies listed then re-listed. I can only apply for jobs within my remit and just lately they have stopped handing out jobsearch leaflets - instead opting to give one sheet with six boxes on - meaning i have to truncate FOR THEIR BENEFIT.

No previous warning - obviously none needed these days - or advice to improve the detail of my search. Add to this that I have been for a screening interview last week and attended all appointments well before time. I am certainly not the only one to have been cornered in this way. So i face no payment next week and the potential for a sanction on what I can see being no reasonable grounds. I am currently researching all appeal avenues to see if they have contravened their contract with me - someone who can prove they have taken all the measures agreed in my Jobseekers Agreement.

No mention was made of this UJ at any of my recent signings , nor at this travesty of an investigation. They can have my email address , but its one I only use for a jobsearch and I will be using private browsing on jobsearches done at home.

Thank god Im just a lowly dole scum who wont fight back eh.

Oh wait - thats just not me. Just keeping my fingers crossed that the job interview I went for today comes to something as I damn sure dont want to have to go cap in hand begging for the hardship payments they have bandied around over the past few days - as having to claim any benefits at all is humiliating enough.
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Re: Being unemployed going Orwelian!

Post by DoraemonTheCat » Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:34 pm

Did anyone see the rather scathing report about JobCentre+ on Channel 4s Dispatches programme a few months ago??

When I went to sign, I was told I should be using the jobpoints to look for work - I then told them about said above TV report, to which I was told - "That was just a load of rubbish, all lies, all politically motivated"

I asked if I could be excused for a minute - to get something from my car

I actually went outside the jobcentre and laughed out VERY loud.

I HATE job centers, and dislike the utter jobsworthy morons that just want to make your life even worse than it already is. There are many Little Hitler's working in these establishments

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Re: Being unemployed going Orwelian!

Post by Antiriad2097 » Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:27 pm

Yeah, thanks for that, much appreciated.

The Dispatches 'report' was horribly skewed. Yes, mistakes were made, yes, there's too much red tape on occasion, but I really don't appreciate the assumption that everyone who works there is a git or that there's some sort of vendetta against the customers.

A significant number of the staff are there because its 'the right thing to do'. You know, helping your fellow man and all that. For every horror story you give me, I could personally recount tales of success and worth where I've made someone's life that bit easier, more fulfilling or even just a bit better off.

Btw Shifty, you don't have to provide your jobsearch evidence on the forms they provide (unless you've let them write that into your JSAg). The standard agreement is that you'll provide evidence of jobsearch. It doesn't specify you must use their forms. I've accepted spreadsheets, things scrawled on dogends of paper, all manner of oddities. I don't think that's changed in the last decade or so since I did it.
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MattyC64c
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Re: Being unemployed going Orwelian!

Post by MattyC64c » Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:32 pm

At this current time even the term 'Job Centre' seem to be a misnomer. I agree that they should crack down on cheats, frauds the work shy, but should those crack downs also apply to the vast majority who are trying their uttermost hardest to get a job. It doesn't seem fair to tar everyone with the same brush. How very 'Conservative' of them....

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Re: Being unemployed going Orwelian!

Post by Antiriad2097 » Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:40 pm

MattyC64c wrote:I agree that they should crack down on cheats, frauds the work shy, but should those crack downs also apply to the vast majority who are trying their uttermost hardest to get a job. It doesn't seem fair to tar everyone with the same brush. How very 'Conservative' of them....
And how do you determine which is which?
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Re: Being unemployed going Orwelian!

Post by MattyC64c » Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:44 pm

I agree with Antiriad2097. Of course it varies from JC to JC, but I haven't had much difficulty with the people at my local JC. At mine they've been very courteous. You're always going to get some horrid person, but I think it's the exception not the rule.

And yes, you don't need to write your job search on their forms, I for one have never used them. I use my own spread sheet print outs. In fact the people there like it, they told me so. Luckily my printer ink is dirt cheap so it's not an issue printing my own.

Yes, to my eternal sorrow I'm unemployed too.

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Re: Being unemployed going Orwelian!

Post by shiftytigger » Thu Nov 29, 2012 4:55 pm

Antiriad2097 wrote:Yeah, thanks for that, much appreciated.

The Dispatches 'report' was horribly skewed. Yes, mistakes were made, yes, there's too much red tape on occasion, but I really don't appreciate the assumption that everyone who works there is a git or that there's some sort of vendetta against the customers.

A significant number of the staff are there because its 'the right thing to do'. You know, helping your fellow man and all that. For every horror story you give me, I could personally recount tales of success and worth where I've made someone's life that bit easier, more fulfilling or even just a bit better off.

Btw Shifty, you don't have to provide your jobsearch evidence on the forms they provide (unless you've let them write that into your JSAg). The standard agreement is that you'll provide evidence of jobsearch. It doesn't specify you must use their forms. I've accepted spreadsheets, things scrawled on dogends of paper, all manner of oddities. I don't think that's changed in the last decade or so since I did it.
Unfortunately , every time I have provided a detailed , clearly typed sheet I have been told not to do so as its meant to be on the correct forms.

Simple , concise , clear standardised instructions would be nice. I would prefer to type as it allows for ease of reading and means I can keep a log of what I have done.

Not everyone who works there is a git , but with vastly different messages from one advisor to another it really does not help. I barely ever have to explain my jobsearch to anyone , most of the time all I do is go in , sign then go out again. But I have faithfully filled out and presented a jobsearch every time - partly because I actually want to work and partly because I am supposed to. But even following the 'rules' has led me to this point.

As farcical as the Workplace groups themselves. Instead of being able to help with re-training / re-education or actually listening to what I have done and what I can do they have railroaded me in the direction of companies I would never actually want to work for - yet still I attend and apply - go for interviews for companies that dont tell you anything about why they dont want you.

My introductory interview involved telling the woman what I have done - presenting my cv and telling her the things I would prefer to avoid and could i maybe take a career path change.
My few 'dont send me for' jobs /companies are -

Cash Converters / Generators - dont want to go back there as I was near breakdown when I left each time.(worked with them 3 times now)
Food related retail / butchers - I am sadly very OCD / squeamish with food and have NEVER worked in food retail for this very reason.
Call Centres/Door to door/commision only sales assistant - Just no.If I have to deal with people I want to see their faces,but not in their own homes unless I have arranged it in advance. As for sales - If im doing a sales job , Im going to do it well and get paid a proper wage while I build up a customer base - not become some poxy,pushy phone shop git.

First interview / application forwarded - Costa Coffee.

And so begins the cycle that started in school. If you dont listen to the things I tell you,I am less inclined to listen to you. I want to work , I want to get out of this horrendous benefits mess but to help me you need to listen. Or so I would hope.

I should add that I have been unemployed for 3.5 years through no fault of my own and before that had worked since I left school.

As for how to weed out the cheats. Start by NOT picking on those who have actual proof of efforts to find work.
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Antiriad2097
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Re: Being unemployed going Orwelian!

Post by Antiriad2097 » Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:17 pm

shiftytigger wrote:As for how to weed out the cheats. Start by NOT picking on those who have actual proof of efforts to find work.
That's how the current system works. The thing about cheats is, they lie. Not that I'm making any accusations here, just pointing out the problem. Hence any doubts get sent off elsewhere.
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Re: Being unemployed going Orwelian!

Post by DPrinny » Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:39 pm

^Send them on a mandatory course?
Have different sign on times/days each week?
MattyC64c wrote:I agree with Antiriad2097. Of course it varies from JC to JC, but I haven't had much difficulty with the people at my local JC. At mine they've been very courteous. You're always going to get some horrid person, but I think it's the exception not the rule.

And yes, you don't need to write your job search on their forms, I for one have never used them. I use my own spread sheet print outs. In fact the people there like it, they told me so. Luckily my printer ink is dirt cheap so it's not an issue printing my own.

Yes, to my eternal sorrow I'm unemployed too.
While I was with a back to work thingy I sent mine in via email the night before as even they said the "Job log" was badly laid out.
Made it easier for them as well as it was copy paste

DoraemonTheCat
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Re: Being unemployed going Orwelian!

Post by DoraemonTheCat » Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:39 pm

Antiriad2097 wrote:Yeah, thanks for that, much appreciated.

The Dispatches 'report' was horribly skewed. Yes, mistakes were made, yes, there's too much red tape on occasion, but I really don't appreciate the assumption that everyone who works there is a git or that there's some sort of vendetta against the customers.

A significant number of the staff are there because its 'the right thing to do'. You know, helping your fellow man and all that. For every horror story you give me, I could personally recount tales of success and worth where I've made someone's life that bit easier, more fulfilling or even just a bit better off.

Btw Shifty, you don't have to provide your jobsearch evidence on the forms they provide (unless you've let them write that into your JSAg). The standard agreement is that you'll provide evidence of jobsearch. It doesn't specify you must use their forms. I've accepted spreadsheets, things scrawled on dogends of paper, all manner of oddities. I don't think that's changed in the last decade or so since I did it.
Hi there Antiriad2097

I don't actually recall saying that everyone who works there is a git or that there's some sort of vendetta against the customers. There is one person I have met in a Job Centre, who worked as an advisor, who was the most genuine, caring, helpful, and pleasant of people. Sadly, he no longer works there. Am sorry, must be just my JC, but most of the advisors look down on you as though you are scum or just seemingly go out of their way to irrate, annoy and argue - i.e, just make your life even more difficult. Being un-employed already has a psychological affect on a lot of people, a high percentage of long-term unemployed sometimes fall into depression due to being out of work for long periods. So when you get "Little Hitler" advisors on your case, it just makes things worse ten-fold. I'm sure in this country, somewhere there are advisors like the one I met that do care, really want to help and give excellent customer service.

Issues that I have (in no order)

I am told to sign at a very specific time. Sometimes, they (advisors) keep me waiting for nigh on half an hour. This is just NOT right. We have to arrive early, or at the very least, on-time for job interviews - so I find it very annoying when Job Centre staff keep me waiting. It's rude and very un-professional.

Rude, nasty, spiteful "Little Hitler's"

The fact that JCs in general allow Job Agencies to advertise inside/on job-points. Agencies "plant" ads that they DON'T actually have work for, in the hope they can get more people to register with their company. It's a well-documented process but it cost unemployed people like myself alot of time. Time I could be using to find a job that DOES actually exist.

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Re: Being unemployed going Orwelian!

Post by HalcyonDaze00 » Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:08 pm

job centre staff are spineless turds, they do nothing about the p1ss takers and scroungers but will hound the decent genuine people and speak to them like sh1t, its no surprise more and more job centres are having to employ security staff to protect the cretins that work there.

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Re: Being unemployed going Orwelian!

Post by Antiriad2097 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:07 am

DoraemonTheCat wrote:I am told to sign at a very specific time. Sometimes, they (advisors) keep me waiting for nigh on half an hour. This is just NOT right. We have to arrive early, or at the very least, on-time for job interviews - so I find it very annoying when Job Centre staff keep me waiting. It's rude and very un-professional.

Rude, nasty, spiteful "Little Hitler's"

The fact that JCs in general allow Job Agencies to advertise inside/on job-points. Agencies "plant" ads that they DON'T actually have work for, in the hope they can get more people to register with their company. It's a well-documented process but it cost unemployed people like myself alot of time. Time I could be using to find a job that DOES actually exist.
I agree, you shouldn't be kept waiting and if you are, you should receive an apology and at least some form of explanation. Its unavoidable sometimes, ocassionally you'll get a customer with a complex or time consuming issue that needs resolving. With current staffing levels, there's just no scope for someone else to pick up the slack. fwiw I had to hang around in reception for longer than I wanted at a recent job interview, so its not restricted to JCs.

Not sure how/why you think they're nasty/spiteful. Most have no real interest in you to that extent, it needs some effort to be nasty and spiteful. They may not care much, but I don't think its intentional spite. Most customers seem to think the staff doing their job is a personal thing. Its not their fault they have a job that requires giving people 'a hard time' sometimes. Nobody who is sanctioned ever really sees it as fair, even when its an obvious chancer.

Agencies advertising jobs that don't exist isn't allowed. Properly reported etc, repeat offenders can be blacklisted. Doesn't generally happen and its very annoying I agree.
HalcyonDaze00 wrote:job centre staff are spineless turds, they do nothing about the p1ss takers and scroungers but will hound the decent genuine people and speak to them like sh1t, its no surprise more and more job centres are having to employ security staff to protect the cretins that work there.
I disagree. There''s no satisfaction in hounding the decent people. There's at least a sense of a job done when you've sanctioned a genuine dodger. You forget we're all taxpayers like the rest of you, we have much the same views as you regarding people who shouldn't be getting money and those who should.
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