It begins...

When the other folders just won't do!

Moderators: mknott, NickThorpe, lcarlson, Darran@Retro Gamer, MMohammed

User avatar
Guybrush
Posts: 954
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2006 9:40 am
Location: Harrogate

Re: It begins...

Post by Guybrush » Tue May 29, 2012 9:23 pm

r0jaws wrote:
Guybrush wrote:...Are you honestly disputing this?!...
Yes I am. The entertainment industry likes to blow hard about "lost sales" but there is no hard evidence for this "fact".
In truth when the RIAA tried to dispute this and take the matter to court, the ruling went against them. 17000-illegal-downloads-dont-equal-17000-lost-sales
For the second time, I am not saying 1 illegal download = 1 lost sale. I'm saying that any illegal download that results in a lost sale hurts the media industry.
r0jaws wrote:Just think about the demographics involved in downloading, are they all likely to have bought whatever your IP is? Even if your IP wasn't available to download, do you think you would sell even one piece of media more?
Are you asking about my personal IP or in general? I don't suppose anyone has illegally downloaded anything I've produced as it's all (relatively speaking) sh1t. If you're asking me if I think relatively famous bands/labels/film studios/games companies have lost out in sales then yes. I don't understand how anyone could think it has zero net negative effect.
r0jaws wrote:Look at the sales of media over the last 50 years, with each advancement of technology, if what you assert is true, then with each advancement in the ability to dupliacte IP from tape to CD and finally the arrival of the internet would have gradually and exponentially obliterated any sales whatsoever.
I don't know why you think it would be an exponential effect, but yes, I believe home taping as well as the ability to burn and copy CDs will have also had a net negative impact on sales in the past (not to the extent that 'home taping is killing music' however).
r0jaws wrote:Why would anyone pay, when you can get it for free?
Ethics?

Pretty much the only music I download is for DJing. It makes no difference to me practically whether I illegally download this music or I pay for it. I choose to pay for it because it's wrong not to.
r0jaws wrote:The answer is, because fans will always buy media. Good media sells, poor media gets thrown in the bargain bin.
Without being insulting, I find it incredibly naive to think that fans will always buy media. Most will. Some won't. Good and bad media gets pirated. Good and bad media gets bought.
r0jaws wrote:Fans will go and see their favourite bands live, buy the merchandise. Casuals, who may have copies of that music on their harddrive will listen to it as if it's on the radio. If it wasn't available, they would probably just listen to the radio.
Probably?
r0jaws wrote:Rant as much as you want, to invite a close down of torrent sites just to protect "potential" sales is not going to solve your "problem".
I wasn't aware I was ranting. It's not a case of solving a problem - I just don't see why some people believe they have the right not to pay for things.
r0jaws wrote:All it does is give a pretext for Govt to introduce more restrictions on an outlet they would love to control.
Maybe. It doesn't change the fact that piracy is wrong. You call it copywrite infringement, I call it theft.
r0jaws wrote:Seeing as this is a gaming forum, then a different view from a member of the industry might introduce a different perspective. Pirated games are not lost sales.
This article is about DRM and I'm not sure what that has to do with shutting down torrent sites. DRM obviously doesn't work. I imagine it's impossible to quanitfy the illegal download/lost sale ratio, but is this guy actually arguing that illegal downloading increases legal sales of his games?! A cute idea that I haven't heard since the days of Napster.

Ultimately, I believe two things:

1. I believe piracy negatively impacts sales in the media industry. You believe every single person who has ever downloaded something illegally would definitely not have paid for it if that were their only option. In effect no sale has ever been lost to piracy.

2. I believe illegal downloading is ethically wrong. You either don't believe it's ethically wrong, which I simply don't understand, or you believe that it's a fair price to pay for protecting internet freedom, which I have a better time understanding (although I think it's a little paranoid).

Either way, I really can't over emphasize how much we're at opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to this issue. :)

User avatar
r0jaws
Posts: 1860
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:48 pm

Re: It begins...

Post by r0jaws » Wed May 30, 2012 3:37 am

You love to point post don't you. :lol:

We are clearly never going to see eye to eye on this issue however I have to make one very strong point. You have mixed up morality with criminality they are 2 very different things. Morality is subjective and a personal opinion, criminality is absolute.
The entertainment industry is trying to make something that you find morally reprehensible, but I don't, and turn it into a criminal offence and restrict our freedoms so that they can control the media they produce as they used to be able to decades ago. Not only is that now impossible, but it is far more morally dubious than some 10 year old downloading a copy of sexy and I know it.
Plus any download equals a lost sale? I'm afraid that still doesn't hold any water. You could download 10 million copies of something, but if you weren't going to pay anything for it, the music industry has still lost nothing.
This really isn't about money and lost sales at the end of the day, it is about control and the retention of an outdated business model.

User avatar
sirclive1
Posts: 1937
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 10:57 am
Location: lancaster

Re: It begins...

Post by sirclive1 » Wed May 30, 2012 5:22 am

I love pirates trying to justify themselves - makes me chuckle .

Its not theft lol

No lost sales - lol

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Luxor the moonprince - Doomguard Slayer

psj3809
Posts: 19013
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 10:28 am

Re: It begins...

Post by psj3809 » Wed May 30, 2012 5:34 am

^Agree with that !

To be fair the 'other side' dont help themselves with crazy statistics about how much revenue is lost every year, one download doesnt always mean one lost sale. But it is funny when people seem to justify piracy and how its okay etc.

I dont really download tunes anymore, theyre so cheap now i always buy digital downloads. When the UK took the mick and singles were 99p (instead of 69p as the rest of Europe) i did think 'sod that' and got dodgy illegal ones as i hate it when they take the biscuit out of us , just no need for digital downloads to be priced differently.

Again the piratebay was used mostly for pirated games/movies/music etc, i've got no complaints about it getting shut down or access denied to it. Like i say others will pop up anyway.

User avatar
DreamcastRIP
Posts: 9376
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2008 10:40 am
Location: England

Re: It begins...

Post by DreamcastRIP » Wed May 30, 2012 11:18 am

sirclive1 wrote:I love pirates trying to justify themselves - makes me chuckle
+1

They're restricting freedom of information = Oh noes, I might have to actually buy something instead of pirating it :lol:
Own: Jaguar JaguarCD Lynx 7800 Dreamcast Saturn MegaDrive MegaCD 32X Nomad GameGear PS3 PS PSP WiiU Wii GameCube N64 DS GBm GBA GBC GBP GB Virtual Boy Xbox Vectrex PCE Duo-R 3DO CDi CD32 GX4000 WonderSwan NGPC Gizmondo ColecoVision iPhone PC Mac

User avatar
r0jaws
Posts: 1860
Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 3:48 pm

Re: It begins...

Post by r0jaws » Wed May 30, 2012 5:38 pm

So, no actual points to make then guys, just vacuous comments?
That's me convinced then. :wink:

User avatar
sirclive1
Posts: 1937
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 10:57 am
Location: lancaster

Re: It begins...

Post by sirclive1 » Thu May 31, 2012 3:03 am

Arrrrr - Shiver my timbers jim lad ! :lol:

I hate pirates and whingers .

[edited by Mod following complaint of swearword used - please refrain from using such terms]
Luxor the moonprince - Doomguard Slayer

User avatar
Rayne
Posts: 6610
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 2:51 pm
Location: Scotland!

Re: It begins...

Post by Rayne » Thu May 31, 2012 11:39 am

You know what's funnier than pirates trying to justify themselves?

Users acting holier than thou as if they don't do it themselves :lol:
Image

User avatar
sirclive1
Posts: 1937
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2005 10:57 am
Location: lancaster

Re: It begins...

Post by sirclive1 » Thu May 31, 2012 12:38 pm

Rayne wrote:You know what's funnier than pirates trying to justify themselves?

Users acting holier than thou as if they don't do it themselves :lol:
Whether thats pointed at me or not , come round have a butchers at my collection :) , make you a brew :)

apologies for the previous swear word !
Luxor the moonprince - Doomguard Slayer

User avatar
Rayne
Posts: 6610
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2008 2:51 pm
Location: Scotland!

Re: It begins...

Post by Rayne » Thu May 31, 2012 1:47 pm

sirclive1 wrote:
Rayne wrote:You know what's funnier than pirates trying to justify themselves?

Users acting holier than thou as if they don't do it themselves :lol:
Whether thats pointed at me or not , come round have a butchers at my collection :) , make you a brew :)

apologies for the previous swear word !
Not directly at you, no :)

I buy a lot of media, too much actually :lol: if I ever search for media through alternative means, it's media that I'd have never purchased anyway. If it's not worth buying - Download!
Image

Gabe
Posts: 292
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 8:24 am

Re: It begins...

Post by Gabe » Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:24 am

r0jaws wrote:You love to point post don't you. :lol:

We are clearly never going to see eye to eye on this issue however I have to make one very strong point. You have mixed up morality with criminality they are 2 very different things. Morality is subjective and a personal opinion, criminality is absolute.
Except that various laws are based on the morals of the time, which therefore makes them subjective.

User avatar
ToxieDogg
Posts: 8356
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2005 8:54 am
Location: Vice City, a.k.a. 'Liverpool'

Re: It begins...

Post by ToxieDogg » Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:58 am

Rayne wrote:When did this legislation pass??? I thought restricting access to various websites was on the cards but would never actually go through!
Not to worry Rayne. It's not like I didn't start a thread on this nearly a month ago or anything :wink:

http://www.retrogamer.net/forum/viewtop ... pirate+bay
Sig pic temporarily removed...The Magnificent 7 will ride again 8)
Lost Dragon wrote:The 1st rule about Feedback is..

You do not give Feedback!

User avatar
Freestyler
Posts: 4150
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 3:15 pm

Re: It begins...

Post by Freestyler » Fri Jun 01, 2012 12:24 pm

For any filthy pirates out there; as I understand it you can still directly enter the IP address, it's just the DNS Server that returns "ACHTUNG!! VERBOTEN!!!"

Basically the DNS's job is to "translate" the text you type into proper readable ip numbers. Bypass the DNS and it's gravy. For instance if you enter the numbers 194.71.107.80 you get the site anyway, even through Virgin Media's "Filters" :roll:




Note to moderators: Please delete the numbers/post if it contravenes the site's rules. I am in no way trying to encourage piracy, or implying this site does.
Freestyler: A customer that's too hard to please, complains all the time and wants everything for next to nothing.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest