I want to believeAntiriad2097 wrote:Can one easily faked photo really be considered evidence? That could be anything.RetroRevival wrote:There were pictures.... hang on.....Isn't the Japanese thing just another story. There's no evidence to support it.
Make of that what you will, but its certainly thought provoking if nothing else
When the other folders just won't do!
A good starting point would be From Flying Toads To Snakes With Wings by Dr. Karl Shuker. It rounds up all sorts of bizarre animals, roughly by genre. Shuker's definitely the go-to guy on cryptozoology.Darran@Retro Gamer wrote:I'm finding this discussion fascinating. Could someone recommend books. Preferably with cool pictures in.
For a more coffee-table way of enjoying/learning about the stuff, there's two books called Beasts! (volumes 1 and 2), from Fantagraphics books. In each of these, ninety artists illustrate ninety different beasts, with short descriptions about them. Most of them are mythical monsters, granted, but there's a fair few cryptids in there as well.
My comics blog (mostly lesser-known UK stuff from the 80s and 90s)
C=Style wrote:It's always refreshing and nice to see someone such as TwoHeadedBoy who is a SNES hating bastard at the best of times rate a SNES game so highly.
I enjoy cryptozoology, but I dislike the hopeful optimism of its practitioners. Just because some news article appears about a hair or some new photograph is revealed hardly means the creature exists or that there is "proof."
This might be a good place to startDarran@Retro Gamer wrote:I'm finding this discussion fascinating. Could someone recommend books. Preferably with cool pictures in.
Cryptozoology A to Z: The Encyclopedia of Loch Monsters, Sasquatch, Chupacabras, and Other Authentic Mysteries of Nature
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listin ... ition=used
Or this which has actual photos
Monsters Caught on Film: Amazing Evidence of Lake Monsters, Bigfoot and Other Strange Beasts
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Monsters-Caught ... =pd_cp_b_2#_
Perhaps I should have said a belief in the supernatural? I can't think of any culture that doesn't have some beliefs in the supernatural, ours might be the least perhaps, but still many religious/'anything unexplained must be a supernatural being' believing people.Space_turnip wrote:I think religion is a false stick to beat them with though - many cultures in south east asia and Africa for instance have had religion subjected to them in relatively recent times compared to the duration of their belief in mystery creatures.
I think the chance that they could be distorted folktale remnants of extinct creatures is worth looking into. I mean how long ago was it that we would have dismissed, entirely, the legends of Flores islanders regarding the race of little people living in the forests of the island? We know (as far as we can determine with current information anyway) that they have been extinct for some time, but the fact that the islanders told tales of them either suggests they were around a lot closer than we think
I agree with you here, these tales may very well be records of genuine encounters in cultures with strong oral traditions. Certainly several distinct breeds of hominid were wandering the same environments at the same time until at the most a couple tens of thousands of years ago. I'm not sure how useful they will actually be however, or how much more information can be provided, especially compared to digs. An avenue of cheap research though and could perhaps mark the spot to dig? With regards to megafauna that is equally interesting - ground sloths being 'kept' in caves in south america.the passed down folk traditions that perhaps hold the answer to what once existed rather than what walks the earth today.
Had a quick look around the CFZ's site and looked at some interesting anthropology stuff (with my salt shaker out). I bet they are being facetious, but mentioning their headquarters has ghosts gives sceptics ammunition!Most of the reasearch areas taken by Cryptozoologists are the same as other Paleo/zoological researchers, simply because the line between the fringes is blurred. There is an element of fortean, even 'trickster', thought to Cryptozoologists, playing devils advocate to the conservative forces within science and attempting to look at the data on the fringes of what is seen as acceptable. I'd also say it takes in elements of psychology, anthropology and semantics rather than just looking at the Paleo/zoology areas, and having a belief (and I use that word carefully - there is definately an element of rather unscientific 'belief' in cryptozoology, although it's tempered with scientific method for the reputable part) that by examining that which is dismissed by others, we can acheive a greater truth. As for journals, the CFZ is about as close as you can get and I think they publish a journal regularly - i've never read it though, and as strictly a non-scientist, I couldn't comment on it's robustness as a scientific journal. Karl Shuker is obviously the best known Cryptozoologist, and an example of a 'proper' scientist interested (and successful) in the field, but as far as I know there's no specific departments for it.
JH Parry's 'The age of reconnaissance' chapters 8-11 (link below)Yeah, of course, I see where you're coming from - fair point. Happy for references though (interested in how tales from travellers were turned into myths).
The records are notoriously patchy though, as most of the tales came from private traders and fishermen who mostly didn't keep records nor publish them. Not until the 1400s and Prince Henry of Portugal were proper records kept (as an aside you can see a parallel of sorts with cryptozoology here). Many stories cam from over land expeditions too. The Cape Verde/Azores/Canaries and Madeira islands are a source of many European legends, as they were in relatively easy reach for a few centuries before 1400s, its just no government sponsored voyages (and thus records). A general example is an Englishman called Robert Machin told some 'romantic' stories about the Azores, reference and a couple of the chapters of the book in question on googlebooks: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=6l5r ... es&f=false
(my copy is the original edition, not sure how much it differs to that US version)
If you want some original accounts, the Hakluyt Society has republished many of the original journals of early explorers. Look in their online archive and then do a advanced googlebooks search with 'hakluyt' in the publisher section. Lots of the books are out of copyright so with 'full view only' checked the full things will be there for free. Polo would be a good start - I've not searched Hakluyt's archives, but I'm sure it'll be there. One problem with original accounts is the language, usually not in English or if it is, its in archaic English.
http://www.google.com/search?tbo=p&tbm= ... v:f&num=10
Sorry jumping to conclusionsNo insult from me as far as I know? :s apologies if you thought I was, certainly wasn;t my intent (and no sarcasm from me either). I see your point as well - I'd certainly be considered 'ignorant' by that definition, but obviously it's not the best way to describe someone. Amateur enthusiast maybe? My point was that I have known several people with an interest in Cryptozoology, and they've all held degrees (usually in Paleontology for some reason) - I currently work with someone for instance who has a Paleontology degree and has a very large interest in it.
Perhaps yeah, I have a tendency to stubbornly use the literal definitions regardless of cultural connotations!
Similar to Congo pygmy hippos then, I didn't know there were strict definitions between them - I wonder if its just a (large) mammals thing. See, I'd just call that zoology. Good to know cryptos aren't all wasting their time then.Well the Dwarf species are due to Island dwarfism, whereas the Pygmy varieties are potentialy smaller morphological versions of Asian and African elephants (more specifically the Forest elephants but smaller). Where Crypto research comes into it is that they have been flying the flag, so to speak, for the distinct congolese pygmy elephants to be a seperate sub-species. As for refernces, I know i'll get beaten for this but.....qikipedia is your friend (for links to them, not itself!) I think that's where Cryptozoology again comes into it's own - the examination of the damned data, the continued questioning of accepted belief. Keeping science on it's toes at all times, making it have to prove it's stated facts over and over and never become comfortable and 'orthodox'. It's a very Fortean thing, and I know it drives many scientists mad with rage, but I think it's incredibly important.
I agree with you its important...all systems that disregard redundancy/competition/innovation fail...its more the things some cryptos influence people into believing (directly or indirectly, eg via the media) despite all the evidence to the contrary. The worst is when 'its all a conspiracy' emerges. I guess cryptos are as easily persuaded as anyone else when a reporter says 'would you like a couple of grand for a few sexy sound bites?'.
che_don_john wrote: Slightly unrelated, but that last sentence reminded me of something else I saw that I think is very interesting.
Well, marine iguanas of the Galapagos are the only marine lizards extant so I presume those are it. That story sounds tosh tbh. I'm not surprised as the biggest idiots often shout the loudest (ie Dawkins is an absolute prune). Its possible though, people are born with semi-webbed feet. Its just that the chance a one in several million mutation would dominate a population in 1-2 generations is another scrapyard/jet/tornado scenario. I'd stake my money on my first explanation! I'd be interested in the reference though.
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