Cryptozoology and proof that the Abominable Snowman exists?

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Cryptozoology and proof that the Abominable Snowman exists?

Post by c0nfu53d » Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:10 pm

It's "indisputable" apparently. Time to say hello to Mr yeti. Cryptozoology - always a facinating subject but one that rarely turns up any kind of reliable evidence apart from the occasional blurry photo.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... aught.html

I wonder what other facinating creatures exist that we thought were only legend?

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Re: Cryptozoology and proof that the Abominable Snowman exis

Post by Space_turnip » Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:54 pm

I am a cryptozoology freak, dozens of books clogging up my shelves and fortean times fulfills my monthly dose of it as well.
Dunno about this new 'indisputable' proof though - the Russians have in recent years made some pretty bizarre claims (I think this is the second time Russian 'scientists' have discovered proof of the Yeti in the last ten years), and they tend to be forgotten about quite quickly.
Definately think there's some big discoveries out there though, Orang Pendek maybe? Seems like the jungles of Borneo and Sumatra are the best bet.
Most interesting element to me though is the smaller creatures being found on a regular basis. Although it'd be great to find this generations Mountain Gorilla or Okapi, it's the smaller species that seem to prove there's still worth in Crytpozoology.

That's all of course if you don't subscribe to the belief that many creatures are phantoms, physical manifestations of mass thought, alien hybrids or shapeshifters of course...
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Re: Cryptozoology and proof that the Abominable Snowman exis

Post by JazzFunk » Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:58 pm

For some reason, this thread triggered long-forgotten memories of the two-toed Vadoma tribe, a phenomenon which initially spooked me upon hearing of it many moons back! :D

In regards to cryptozoology, I believe that (almost) anything is possible. Men tend to f*ck anything they can lay their hands on, most animals don't even have that base level of 'shame', so they'll be f*cking things randomly even more, *imagine* what freaky, soddish things be out there!!!

We need more threads like this and less like that Tesco one. ;)

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Re: Cryptozoology and proof that the Abominable Snowman exis

Post by James A » Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:30 am

Most likely the next big find will come out of the oceans. Just remember that fish they though was extinct for millions of years and then they refound it again

Fascinating subject Cryptozoology but has alot of nutters attached to it
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Re: Cryptozoology and proof that the Abominable Snowman exis

Post by nokgod » Wed Oct 12, 2011 4:44 am

James A wrote:Most likely the next big find will come out of the oceans. Just remember that fish they though was extinct for millions of years and then they refound it again

Fascinating subject Cryptozoology but has alot of nutters attached to it
that was a coeleocanth, an awesome prehistoric relic.
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Re: Cryptozoology and proof that the Abominable Snowman exis

Post by retrojc » Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:00 am

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burbot

I caught a burbot when i was around 13 years of age from a river where they claim to have never existed, last year my mate sent me a mobile picture of him holding a tiny one he'd caught with a maggot, won't give out the exact location though. Keep these fish safe etc.

Pretty mcuh believe anything is possible

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Re: Cryptozoology and proof that the Abominable Snowman exis

Post by c0nfu53d » Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:29 am

nokgod wrote:
James A wrote:Most likely the next big find will come out of the oceans. Just remember that fish they though was extinct for millions of years and then they refound it again

Fascinating subject Cryptozoology but has alot of nutters attached to it
that was a coeleocanth, an awesome prehistoric relic.
It's funny James A mentioned the ocean because it's the sea/lake monsters that intrest me the most. You'll probally find the Loch Ness Monster and other sea/lake monsters are dinosaur throwbacks. When the dinos were made extinct it definatly possible that deep water dwelling creatures were protected from whatever killed their friends above. Who knows what lurks beneith the waves? Or the earths surface for that matter. 100 ft centipeades anyone?

*shudders*

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Re: Cryptozoology and proof that the Abominable Snowman exis

Post by James A » Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:37 am

c0nfu53d wrote:
nokgod wrote:
James A wrote:Most likely the next big find will come out of the oceans. Just remember that fish they though was extinct for millions of years and then they refound it again

Fascinating subject Cryptozoology but has alot of nutters attached to it
that was a coeleocanth, an awesome prehistoric relic.
It's funny James A mentioned the ocean because it's the sea/lake monsters that intrest me the most. You'll probally find the Loch Ness Monster and other sea/lake monsters are dinosaur throwbacks. When the dinos were made extinct it definatly possible that deep water dwelling creatures were protected from whatever killed their friends above. Who knows what lurks beneith the waves? Or the earths surface for that matter. 100 ft centipeades anyone?

*shudders*
If there is something in Loch Ness its likley to be a Sturgeon and they do get very big. Guy i work with caught a 1000lb one in Canada and they get much bigger than that. The food chain in the lake couldn't support a top level predatorof Dinosaur size nevermind several of them.
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Re: Cryptozoology and proof that the Abominable Snowman exis

Post by greenberet79 » Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:42 am

Sort of related to this is the number of "lost" tribes in the Amazon jungle. Doesn't seem to be many (any?) left, due to deforestation/better geography research. But the fact that there have been some recently, completely cut off from the rest of the world is fascinating. They've never heard of Simon Cowell, those lucky lucky people.

It still freaks me out that millions upon millions of years ago, dinosaurs were kicking about the planet. It was so long ago it's mind-boggling.

There was a BBC4 programme on a couple of weeks back, saying that the idea for Greek gods came about with greeks finding giant dinosaur bones - people thought they were the bones of gods/giants. Same in the Far East for dragons.

But, it's the mystery element. There should always be some mystery to the world. What's the point in knowing everything?
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Re: Cryptozoology and proof that the Abominable Snowman exis

Post by che_don_john » Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:38 am

greenberet79 wrote:It still freaks me out that millions upon millions of years ago, dinosaurs were kicking about the planet. It was so long ago it's mind-boggling.
The facts which I find most striking are:

- It took almost a billion years for basic cell life to appear after the Earth was formed
- Basic 'animal' life appeared only 600 million years ago (ie. 3.9 billion years into the Earth's 4.5 billion year life)
- Homo sapiens appeared approximately 200,000 years ago; so, after nearly a billion years of no life (in any form) on this planet, there was then a period of nearly 3.5 billion years of life before humans appeared
- Over 99.8% of species that have ever existed on this Earth are now extinct

And some dusty old books try to tell us that the Earth is 6,000 years old and that humans are special!

As for cryptozoology debates, I think there are some cases that are strong and some that are just mythological. The challenge of the field, particularly with regards to being taken seriously, is to separate the wheat from the chaff and make sure that all enquiry is scientific and that speculation and anecdotal evidence is viewed sceptically. I think there is a distinct line between something like the Loch Ness monster, which as James A suggested is unlikely from everything we know about marine biology, and something like the Yeti, which given what we know about primate evolution is not that far-fetched.
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Re: Cryptozoology and proof that the Abominable Snowman exis

Post by DPrinny » Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:01 am

We have yet to chart all of the sea.
We have charted more of the stars than we have of the sea

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Re: Cryptozoology and proof that the Abominable Snowman exis

Post by greenberet79 » Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:08 am

che_don_john wrote: - Over 99.8% of species that have ever existed on this Earth are now extinct
That's remarkable. And depressing.

Yep, God certainly sat round doing a whole lot of nothing for a billion years. And that was before telly as well! Still, that's another (pointless) debate for a another place.
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Re: Cryptozoology and proof that the Abominable Snowman exis

Post by che_don_john » Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:30 pm

greenberet79 wrote:
che_don_john wrote: - Over 99.8% of species that have ever existed on this Earth are now extinct
That's remarkable. And depressing.
Well, when you think about how long life has lived on the Earth, then chances are that most of those species would have had a good innings! 99.8% seems like a lot - well, it is a lot - but we're talking over 600m years here at least (just counting animal species).

Also, not a single one of those species were as clever as we are, so we have the potential for a long existence and are better equipped to survive the sort of doomsday scenarios that might have whiped out earlier species..
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Re: Cryptozoology and proof that the Abominable Snowman exis

Post by oli_lar » Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:09 pm

Firstly, what really depresses me is that bonafide 110 year old charity organisations dedicated to animal conservation fund searches for the Orang Pendek. It boggles the mind given there is no evidence whatsoever and there are innumerable species needing those funds.

I find cryptozoology interesting in that its funny the stories people tell and believe - the Bible has more truth to it than any crypto animal. Before the age of exploration people were convinced that there were a race of people with their faces on their chests somewhere, all because one pissed sailor made up a fib.
JazzFunk wrote: In regards to cryptozoology, I believe that (almost) anything is possible. Men tend to f*ck anything they can lay their hands on, most animals don't even have that base level of 'shame', so they'll be f*cking things randomly even more, *imagine* what freaky, soddish things be out there!!!
Spent about 1/2 an hour this morning explaining why this doesn't happen outside of zoos due to behavior, and why anything above the taxonomic level of genus prevents it happening (well theoretically in both cases it can, but its like the tornado/scrapyard/jet plane scenario) but then didn't press ctrl + c properly...referenced it and everything!! :evil:

c0nfu53d wrote: It's funny James A mentioned the ocean because it's the sea/lake monsters that intrest me the most. You'll probally find the Loch Ness Monster and other sea/lake monsters are dinosaur throwbacks. When the dinos were made extinct it definatly possible that deep water dwelling creatures were protected from whatever killed their friends above. Who knows what lurks beneith the waves? Or the earths surface for that matter. 100 ft centipeades anyone?
Pliosaurs and their ilk are marine reptiles though, all of which lived in the vast shallow seas that don't exist any more. They lived there as they breath fresh air and most needed to return to land to lay eggs (icthyosaurs did give birth to live young though). The seas were also a lot warmer, and the atmosphere had much more oxygen (hence why such large animals could breathe).

Further more dinosaurs do exist, only through a single taxonomic order - birds. They ruled the world for many millions of years after the KT extinction event as well, until mammals gained sufficient size.

The problem with most of these theories is there simply aren't the prey populations to support them. An apex predator like a lion is 1:100 prey animals the size of zebra. Thus for a neanderthal population of 30, like the original article suggests, 3000 zebra sized animals would need to be within their territory. In savannah this would be possible (if the prey constantly moved so not to overgraze) but as Siberia is mostly pine forest/taiga, notorious for being scant of animal life, it would be impossible. Especially as most things extant there are smaller than deer.

No offense to any keen crypto's here but most people who believe them tend to be a bit ignorant about paleontology/zoology. In any case I find truth is much more interesting than fiction, 7m long monitor lizards in australia, pygmy mammoths on Wrangel Island and pygmy elephants on Corsica/sardinia (they influenced the Greek gods too - the nost cavity was though to be a giant's single eye).

That said I'd love to examine proper evidence ie a carcass in situ , or even just bones - strange how none has ever been found eh.

che_don_john wrote: - Over 99.8% of species that have ever existed on this Earth are now extinct
Thats a how long is a piece of string statistic though, given species are a human interpretation. There are 1.3 million of them extant, 90% named in the past 20 years. Not to mention the vast gaps in the fossil record. If a scientist wanted (and had the balls) they could easily classify different races of humans as different species, or at least sub species. Very subjective thing.
che_don_john wrote:
something like the Yeti, which given what we know about primate evolution is not that far-fetched.
What do we know about primate evolution that makes it likely? Notice how humans are the only primates that have gone under any real amount of taxonomic change over the last few million years - only because they have a far more flexible approach to reproduction. All other great apes/primates have remained in their own taxonomic boundaries for the past few million years, because there simply hasn't been the time. The extinct/extant apes that approach the size that the Yeti is conjectured to be are all quadrapeds, such large bulk can't be supported by two legs. You don't have to look very far to see this in action: Maasai are a tall race, but lightly built. Thus no members of the primate family, IMO, are suitable candidates for having produced a Yeti type creature.

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Re: Cryptozoology and proof that the Abominable Snowman exis

Post by c0nfu53d » Wed Oct 12, 2011 3:59 pm

che_don_john wrote:
greenberet79 wrote:

And some dusty old books try to tell us that the Earth is 6,000 years old and that humans are special!
I'm presuming your refering to the Bible. The problem is due to translation issues the Bible is open to dispute.

Genesis 1:9 says:

And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

This suggests that when the water moved it revealed the land below, which in turn sugests it was there to start with.

Anyway this isn't a religion thread so onward with the mysterious creatures.

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