Just when you think Sony couldn't arse up PS3 any more....

When the other folders just won't do!

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Dudley
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Just when you think Sony couldn't arse up PS3 any more....

Post by Dudley » Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:29 am

... they manage it

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3153775


$1000 for GT4, only slightly higher res.

No, not a PS3 and GT4. Just the game.
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Elgin_McQueen
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Post by Elgin_McQueen » Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:46 am

I like the movie the Producers (original, haven't seen the remake), didn't realise you could do that with hardware though.
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markopoloman
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Post by markopoloman » Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:25 am

I hope its good for that price :shock:

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Shin_Gouki
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Re:

Post by Shin_Gouki » Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:04 am

markopoloman wrote:I hope its good for that price :shock:
It won't be... basically the same old game, HD graphics.

God I hate the Gran Turismo franchise. :evil:
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Dudley
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Post by Dudley » Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:23 am

The original GT was ground breaking. Gt2 was a decentish build (although missing features in GT1 like saved lap records).

From then it hasn't progressed and has added even more idiocy like massive AI catchup and tyres wear that goes through the best tyres in about 5 laps.

GT:HD isn't even fully HD since the car models are from the PS2 version.

It's a shame really, it should be the best thing ever and it's getting more and more out of date.

6 cars in a serious racing game when on my PC I'm playing the infinately better GTR2 with 48 on track is unacceptable.
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Opa-Opa
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Re:

Post by Opa-Opa » Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:35 am

Dudley wrote:The original GT was ground breaking.
No it wasn't, it was just broken...
The graphics were ground breaking, but the game was far from it....

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Eugene Mamalookaboobooday
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Re:

Post by Eugene Mamalookaboobooday » Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:48 am

Opa-Opa wrote:
Dudley wrote:The original GT was ground breaking.
No it wasn't, it was just broken...
The graphics were ground breaking, but the game was far from it....
Agreed. GT was flawed to start with and instead of fixing the flaws they've added to them. My interest wained with GT2 when I found it was a second helping of the soiled trousers that was GT1.
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Re:

Post by Utini » Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:56 am

Opa-Opa wrote:
Dudley wrote:The original GT was ground breaking.
No it wasn't, it was just broken...
The graphics were ground breaking, but the game was far from it....
I refer you to Opa-Opa's previous comments ;)
http://www.retrogamer.net/forum/viewtop ... 2892#42892[/url]
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Opa-Opa
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Post by Opa-Opa » Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:27 am

You will also find a nice little comparison of 3 driving games for the PS1 included in Episode 4 of Weekend Gamer, due out very soon ;)

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The Last Ginja
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Re:

Post by The Last Ginja » Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:24 pm

Opa-Opa wrote:You will also find a nice little comparison of 3 driving games for the PS1 included in Episode 4 of Weekend Gamer, due out very soon ;)
Bloody hurry up, I mean how long can it take to film these things, it's not like you have a life or anything! :wink:

Seriously though, looking forward to the next one.

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Opa-Opa
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Post by Opa-Opa » Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:31 pm

It's on its way....

Even though I don't have a life to speak of, KID is getting ready to do his GCSE mocks this year and finding the time to get him to record is hard..
After all, I don't want him failing them and ending up like me ;)

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Dudley
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Re:

Post by Dudley » Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:41 pm

Opa-Opa wrote:
Dudley wrote:The original GT was ground breaking.
No it wasn't, it was just broken...
The graphics were ground breaking, but the game was far from it....
Compared to its competition at the time I found very little it did wrong.

Oh, I just checked and found you thought TOCA had more realistic physics. Yeah, this discussion wouldn't end well.

And TOCA didn't have "Real cars and damage". It had racing cars, the licencing situation is very different (although not insurmountable these days)

To have 150 ROAD cars with pretty damn good physics and a decent number of tracks was in itself groundbreaking at the time. If you didn't play it like a baby and ram the other cars then there were even a few championships where you could actually race the AI sensibly.

I must have spent half my life in 1998 blating round autumn ring mini in the Cerbera LM trying to beat my lap record.

The problem started later.

GT2 removed the saving of time trial records, a major reason I played, it got so large as to be unwieldy (and had the amusing distinction that neither the PAL or NTSC versions had 100% complete as the limit, it was 102% and 98% respectively).

GT3 removed large numbers of cars, turned the AI into even more idiotic drones, took the licence test part to massively dull depths and introduced hillarious daft races like 5 laps of a 5 mile oval in a Toyota Yaris. The game structure became even more unwiedly. It also introduced incredibly unrealistic tyre wear into every single event and removed both qualifying for most races and standing starts.

It also largely removed used cars, one of the huge draws of the original GT.

Between GT3 and 4 they decided to produce a pointless arcade only title which no-one cared about then tried to sell what amounted to a demo of GT4 for £25.

GT4's catch up is legendarily hideous, it's made so you don't even need to drive the races anymore thanks to the "management mode". The problem with this though is that while it has "Accelerated time", it resets to 1x at every single one of the pitstops. The game structure borders on the insane and I don't even want to mention the AI itself.

I spent a lot of time doing "online races" in GT4. Without that I'd have been bored of it very quickly.

But GT1 changed the face of driving games, whether you like it or not. To basically condemn its incredible realism (by 1998 standards) because of one fault is very short sighted.

And Doom wasn't revolutionary. Wolfenstien was. Doom was merely an incremental upgrade. It wasn't any more 3d than Wolf.
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Opa-Opa
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Post by Opa-Opa » Thu Sep 21, 2006 2:07 pm

Sorry Dudley, but you are wrong..
I can't be arsed to argue this all over again, but there is definitely more than one fault with GT....

Toca (the game) does use "real cars and real damage" (as much is posible on a 32bit machine ) and therefore is as close to real world touring car racing as it can be on a machine of that power. There are very strict rules governing the spec of cars that can be entered into a real life Toca season and the game reflects this.

I have, as I said, made a feature for my next Weekend Gamer show featuring both Toca and GT and explains why I think that Toca is a far better game than GT.
I tried to make it objective so it is not just me ranting on about how I hate a game.
I hope you will take the time to have a look once it is released.

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necronom
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Post by necronom » Thu Sep 21, 2006 2:46 pm

I bought Toca 2 and G.T. for the PS1. I liked Toca 2 quite a lot, but I think I only played G.T. for one afternoon, and never played it again (I got it second hand and it didn't cost much luckily).

As for the "micro payments" idea, I hate it. Games will cost more, you'll have to download them, and if you have a problem with your hard drive or memory card (whichever has you downloaded stuff on), you 'll have to either have it all backed up, or download it all again. Plus if you take your game to a friends house, you can't play it! What a load of crap!

What if you lose your downloaded stuff, then the "Powers That Be" stop making the game available for download? If I buy a game I expect to own it all on a disc from day one!

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Dudley
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Re:

Post by Dudley » Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:01 pm

Opa-Opa wrote:Sorry Dudley, but you are wrong..
I can't be arsed to argue this all over again, but there is definitely more than one fault with GT....

Toca (the game) does use "real cars and real damage" (as much is posible on a 32bit machine ) and therefore is as close to real world touring car racing as it can be on a machine of that power. There are very strict rules governing the spec of cars that can be entered into a real life Toca season and the game reflects this.
TOCA does NOT use real cars. Racing cars are not real cars, the licencing issues are completely different.

Also, TOCA was BTCC, not WTCC which didn't even exist at the time, it was also missing several of the cars that ran that year (despite including them in the intro video), Robb Gravett and Paula Cook to name but two.

Believe me, trying to lecture me about my single most geeky obsession's rules and regs isn't going to get you very far.

I have, as I said, made a feature for my next Weekend Gamer show featuring both Toca and GT and explains why I think that Toca is a far better game than GT.
I tried to make it objective so it is not just me ranting on about how I hate a game.
I hope you will take the time to have a look once it is released.
You lost me the second you claimed TOCA had "realistic physics". It really doesn't. It doesn't even model the four courners of the car, it basically just uses pivot point physics. It's a superb racing game, but it's not a great DRIVING one. And you're still dodging the huge contribution GT1 made to today's driving games whether you like it or not.

Don't mistake me for a TOCA basher. It's the game I bought the PSX for and, especially on PC is still an immensely playable game. I'd probably be prepared to admit it's a better GAME than GT. However, it certainly didn't shape the future of racing games in the way GT did.

Although it does share GT's problem of being a series that took a steep dive after game 2. The last 2 iterations haven't even included TOCA's BTCC series, despite retaining the licence so no-one else can make it.
As for the "micro payments" idea, I hate it. Games will cost more, you'll have to download them, and if you have a problem with your hard drive or memory card (whichever has you downloaded stuff on), you 'll have to either have it all backed up, or download it all again. Plus if you take your game to a friends house, you can't play it! What a load of crap!
To be fair, the 360 gets around that last bit by tying the content to both your profile and your 360. So if you go round to a mate's house you CAN play downloaded content if you're signed in as you, but on your 360 anyone can play it.

The rest of your points of course remain valid. There's also the secondary point that games you buy online are effectively more expensive since you don't have the ability to sell them on.
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