The Star Wars thread

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pratty
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Re: The Star Wars thread

Post by pratty » Mon Dec 30, 2019 1:00 am

Matt_B wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 8:11 pm
That's not politics, that's outright conspiracy theory.
:lol: Ok. Well, I don't doubt there are pop culture consumers hypocritically LARP-ing as marxists, socialists, communists and whatever other hip political identities from their capitalist-produced I-Phones, nevertheless I maintain the politics of the film is at least designed to appease these people's ideas and feelings, if not their actual economic actions. That much the left is never satisfied isn't a shock in the slightest. Since the forum forbids a deeper discussion maybe we can at least agree this is another failure of the film.

Not that we need to get into the politics of the film to knock it, politics aside it's still a bad movie in my opinion. That Disney and the Star Wars brand as a whole, with all their resources, couldn't do better with Episodes 7-9, does make me question their story-telling priorities.
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Re: The Star Wars thread

Post by Matt_B » Mon Dec 30, 2019 1:20 am

Capitalist-produced iPhones? You do know that they're made in China, right?

The films might be a bit naff, but this discussion is comedy gold. :lol:

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Re: The Star Wars thread

Post by the_hawk » Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:13 am

Saw it last night & absolutely loved it.

So glad the internet wasn't around in the 80s to tell me how wrong I was about loving the original trilogy.
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Re: The Star Wars thread

Post by DPrinny » Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:30 am

pratty wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:25 pm
DPrinny wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:17 am
Im all for diversity in films, I watch Star trek for fecks sake.
Who isn't? Seriously, when it comes to race and gender Star Wars has been diverse from day one, there's nothing to fix. Diversity isn't the issue. Take Poe for example, he is the politically correct and "toxic masculinity" free re-imagination of Han Solo, and what a shallow and charisma-less character he is as a result. That he doesn't get, or even see the girl, might have actually been and interesting and refreshing twist, were it not for the clear and obvious, eye-roll inducing political agenda driving the film. Star Wars became a marxist/feminist fantasy, it might be interesting to elaborate and discuss further, but as I say one aspect of the political culture influencing the recent films is that you aren't to question it, which is where we find ourselves on this forum. So....
I guess I enjoyed the explosions. :|
Well the original trilogy did have a white guy that was dressed as a black guy that commanded loads of guys in white

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Re: The Star Wars thread

Post by Antiriad2097 » Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:45 am

DPrinny wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:30 am
pratty wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:25 pm
DPrinny wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:17 am
Im all for diversity in films, I watch Star trek for fecks sake.
Who isn't? Seriously, when it comes to race and gender Star Wars has been diverse from day one, there's nothing to fix. Diversity isn't the issue. Take Poe for example, he is the politically correct and "toxic masculinity" free re-imagination of Han Solo, and what a shallow and charisma-less character he is as a result. That he doesn't get, or even see the girl, might have actually been and interesting and refreshing twist, were it not for the clear and obvious, eye-roll inducing political agenda driving the film. Star Wars became a marxist/feminist fantasy, it might be interesting to elaborate and discuss further, but as I say one aspect of the political culture influencing the recent films is that you aren't to question it, which is where we find ourselves on this forum. So....
I guess I enjoyed the explosions. :|
Well the original trilogy did have a white guy that was dressed as a black guy that commanded loads of guys in white
...with a black guy's voice.
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Re: The Star Wars thread

Post by pratty » Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:27 am

Matt_B wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 1:20 am
Capitalist-produced iPhones? You do know that they're made in China, right?

The films might be a bit naff, but this discussion is comedy gold. :lol:
Yes I'm aware they are made in China. The word "produced" can refer to more than the physical creation of something, I was talking about the economic system that brought the phones into their conceptual existance, not the country where they are physically manufactured. Apparently my mistake for thinking that was obvious, but if you feel you've scored a point you're welcome to it.
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Re: The Star Wars thread

Post by Matt_B » Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:39 pm

pratty wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:27 am
Matt_B wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 1:20 am
Capitalist-produced iPhones? You do know that they're made in China, right?

The films might be a bit naff, but this discussion is comedy gold. :lol:
Yes I'm aware they are made in China. The word "produced" can refer to more than the physical creation of something, I was talking about the economic system that brought the phones into their conceptual existance, not the country where they are physically manufactured. Apparently my mistake for thinking that was obvious, but if you feel you've scored a point you're welcome to it.
Sorry, but you can't just handwave away manufacture as somehow not being part of the economic system. A major reason people criticize unrestrained capitalism is precisely because of its tendency to move jobs offshore to places where there's a lower cost-base, and when that place happens to be a Marxist state it's not exactly a great argument for the benefits of capitalism to the people whose jobs have been offshored. Apple have, in the past, been criticized for using slave labour and underage workers in their supply chains too. To their credit, they've responded and made efforts to reduce and eliminate, but that deregulated international trade has no safeguards to prevent it from happening isn't exactly a plus point for capitalism either.

In any case, the economic system that brought the iPhone into its conceptual existence was mostly state funding of public institutions. There's no totally capitalist country in the world with pretty much everywhere running a mixed economy. In large part that was DARPA, but I'm not going to champion the military-industrial complex. Apple obviously did make a lot of things themselves like their source code, industrial design and they own numerous trademarks and patents. Still, given the huge numbers of other smartphones on the market (including, dare I say it, some Chinese ones) it's not they came up with anything that crucial to their operation.

Anyway, that's just one of many reasons why it's a bad argument. For another, you can do a reductio ad absurdum and tell a slave that they can't complain about slavery, because slave labour gave them the food they eat, to see that it's just a fallacious appeal to the status quo. The world as it is gave us what we have, but that doesn't mean that we have to love every aspect of it.

On a final note, I'm surprised that this topic hasn't been modded yet. When that time inevitably comes, I'll claim in my defence that there's no ban on talking about conspiracy theories and economics. If other people want to make it political though, that's their lookout. :wink:

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Re: The Star Wars thread

Post by Matt_B » Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:41 pm

Antiriad2097 wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:45 am
DPrinny wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:30 am
pratty wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:25 pm



Who isn't? Seriously, when it comes to race and gender Star Wars has been diverse from day one, there's nothing to fix. Diversity isn't the issue. Take Poe for example, he is the politically correct and "toxic masculinity" free re-imagination of Han Solo, and what a shallow and charisma-less character he is as a result. That he doesn't get, or even see the girl, might have actually been and interesting and refreshing twist, were it not for the clear and obvious, eye-roll inducing political agenda driving the film. Star Wars became a marxist/feminist fantasy, it might be interesting to elaborate and discuss further, but as I say one aspect of the political culture influencing the recent films is that you aren't to question it, which is where we find ourselves on this forum. So....
I guess I enjoyed the explosions. :|
Well the original trilogy did have a white guy that was dressed as a black guy that commanded loads of guys in white
...with a black guy's voice.
It would have been so much more fun if he sounded like the Green Cross Man though.

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Re: The Star Wars thread

Post by DPrinny » Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:31 pm

Or Mr T
I pitty da foo dat dont join the Darkside

Watched Solo
Liked it

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Re: The Star Wars thread

Post by mr jenzie » Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:41 pm

seen it today on IMAX

very very good

there are problems OF COURSE THERE ARE PROBLEMS

the running time is it's main one ..... and just like DARK OF THE MOON it needed to be in TWO parts! just far too much to fit in and too many characters who didn't get ANY worthwhile scenes

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Re: The Star Wars thread

Post by DPrinny » Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:53 pm

mr jenzie wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:41 pm
seen it today on IMAX

very very good

there are problems OF COURSE THERE ARE PROBLEMS

the running time is it's main one ..... and just like DARK OF THE MOON it needed to be in TWO parts! just far too much to fit in and too many characters who didn't get ANY worthwhile scenes
My problems with it is the constant going back on stuff
He died, no he didnt
Trailer bait C3PO thing, that gets undone
HE DIED! *Casts res* NO HE DIDNT! Dies again

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Re: The Star Wars thread

Post by Antiriad2097 » Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:54 am

The problems with it are mainly the fault of The Last Jedi. If there'd been a token script written than outlined the overall arc to follow, Rian Johnson wouldn't have thrown away so much that was set up in The Force Awakens. Given what happened in Ep 8, they patched and tied things up pretty well. I liked TLJ (grumpy Luke is ace, I love that saber toss at the start), but it was clear it wasn't written with TFA and TROS in mind. The death fake outs were poor though, I'll give you that.
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Re: The Star Wars thread

Post by DPrinny » Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:00 am

I watch the Dragonball series's's so should be used to death fake-outs, but with that they stay dead for a while, this on the other hand, its within ten minutes

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