The Star Wars thread

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pratty
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Re: The Star Wars thread

Post by pratty » Mon Dec 30, 2019 1:00 am

Matt_B wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 8:11 pm
That's not politics, that's outright conspiracy theory.
:lol: Ok. Well, I don't doubt there are pop culture consumers hypocritically LARP-ing as marxists, socialists, communists and whatever other hip political identities from their capitalist-produced I-Phones, nevertheless I maintain the politics of the film is at least designed to appease these people's ideas and feelings, if not their actual economic actions. That much the left is never satisfied isn't a shock in the slightest. Since the forum forbids a deeper discussion maybe we can at least agree this is another failure of the film.

Not that we need to get into the politics of the film to knock it, politics aside it's still a bad movie in my opinion. That Disney and the Star Wars brand as a whole, with all their resources, couldn't do better with Episodes 7-9, does make me question their story-telling priorities.
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Re: The Star Wars thread

Post by Matt_B » Mon Dec 30, 2019 1:20 am

Capitalist-produced iPhones? You do know that they're made in China, right?

The films might be a bit naff, but this discussion is comedy gold. :lol:

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Re: The Star Wars thread

Post by the_hawk » Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:13 am

Saw it last night & absolutely loved it.

So glad the internet wasn't around in the 80s to tell me how wrong I was about loving the original trilogy.
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Re: The Star Wars thread

Post by DPrinny » Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:30 am

pratty wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:25 pm
DPrinny wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:17 am
Im all for diversity in films, I watch Star trek for fecks sake.
Who isn't? Seriously, when it comes to race and gender Star Wars has been diverse from day one, there's nothing to fix. Diversity isn't the issue. Take Poe for example, he is the politically correct and "toxic masculinity" free re-imagination of Han Solo, and what a shallow and charisma-less character he is as a result. That he doesn't get, or even see the girl, might have actually been and interesting and refreshing twist, were it not for the clear and obvious, eye-roll inducing political agenda driving the film. Star Wars became a marxist/feminist fantasy, it might be interesting to elaborate and discuss further, but as I say one aspect of the political culture influencing the recent films is that you aren't to question it, which is where we find ourselves on this forum. So....
I guess I enjoyed the explosions. :|
Well the original trilogy did have a white guy that was dressed as a black guy that commanded loads of guys in white

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Re: The Star Wars thread

Post by Antiriad2097 » Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:45 am

DPrinny wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:30 am
pratty wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:25 pm
DPrinny wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 5:17 am
Im all for diversity in films, I watch Star trek for fecks sake.
Who isn't? Seriously, when it comes to race and gender Star Wars has been diverse from day one, there's nothing to fix. Diversity isn't the issue. Take Poe for example, he is the politically correct and "toxic masculinity" free re-imagination of Han Solo, and what a shallow and charisma-less character he is as a result. That he doesn't get, or even see the girl, might have actually been and interesting and refreshing twist, were it not for the clear and obvious, eye-roll inducing political agenda driving the film. Star Wars became a marxist/feminist fantasy, it might be interesting to elaborate and discuss further, but as I say one aspect of the political culture influencing the recent films is that you aren't to question it, which is where we find ourselves on this forum. So....
I guess I enjoyed the explosions. :|
Well the original trilogy did have a white guy that was dressed as a black guy that commanded loads of guys in white
...with a black guy's voice.
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Re: The Star Wars thread

Post by pratty » Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:27 am

Matt_B wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 1:20 am
Capitalist-produced iPhones? You do know that they're made in China, right?

The films might be a bit naff, but this discussion is comedy gold. :lol:
Yes I'm aware they are made in China. The word "produced" can refer to more than the physical creation of something, I was talking about the economic system that brought the phones into their conceptual existance, not the country where they are physically manufactured. Apparently my mistake for thinking that was obvious, but if you feel you've scored a point you're welcome to it.
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Re: The Star Wars thread

Post by Matt_B » Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:39 pm

pratty wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:27 am
Matt_B wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 1:20 am
Capitalist-produced iPhones? You do know that they're made in China, right?

The films might be a bit naff, but this discussion is comedy gold. :lol:
Yes I'm aware they are made in China. The word "produced" can refer to more than the physical creation of something, I was talking about the economic system that brought the phones into their conceptual existance, not the country where they are physically manufactured. Apparently my mistake for thinking that was obvious, but if you feel you've scored a point you're welcome to it.
Sorry, but you can't just handwave away manufacture as somehow not being part of the economic system. A major reason people criticize unrestrained capitalism is precisely because of its tendency to move jobs offshore to places where there's a lower cost-base, and when that place happens to be a Marxist state it's not exactly a great argument for the benefits of capitalism to the people whose jobs have been offshored. Apple have, in the past, been criticized for using slave labour and underage workers in their supply chains too. To their credit, they've responded and made efforts to reduce and eliminate, but that deregulated international trade has no safeguards to prevent it from happening isn't exactly a plus point for capitalism either.

In any case, the economic system that brought the iPhone into its conceptual existence was mostly state funding of public institutions. There's no totally capitalist country in the world with pretty much everywhere running a mixed economy. In large part that was DARPA, but I'm not going to champion the military-industrial complex. Apple obviously did make a lot of things themselves like their source code, industrial design and they own numerous trademarks and patents. Still, given the huge numbers of other smartphones on the market (including, dare I say it, some Chinese ones) it's not they came up with anything that crucial to their operation.

Anyway, that's just one of many reasons why it's a bad argument. For another, you can do a reductio ad absurdum and tell a slave that they can't complain about slavery, because slave labour gave them the food they eat, to see that it's just a fallacious appeal to the status quo. The world as it is gave us what we have, but that doesn't mean that we have to love every aspect of it.

On a final note, I'm surprised that this topic hasn't been modded yet. When that time inevitably comes, I'll claim in my defence that there's no ban on talking about conspiracy theories and economics. If other people want to make it political though, that's their lookout. :wink:

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Re: The Star Wars thread

Post by Matt_B » Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:41 pm

Antiriad2097 wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:45 am
DPrinny wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 7:30 am
pratty wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 6:25 pm



Who isn't? Seriously, when it comes to race and gender Star Wars has been diverse from day one, there's nothing to fix. Diversity isn't the issue. Take Poe for example, he is the politically correct and "toxic masculinity" free re-imagination of Han Solo, and what a shallow and charisma-less character he is as a result. That he doesn't get, or even see the girl, might have actually been and interesting and refreshing twist, were it not for the clear and obvious, eye-roll inducing political agenda driving the film. Star Wars became a marxist/feminist fantasy, it might be interesting to elaborate and discuss further, but as I say one aspect of the political culture influencing the recent films is that you aren't to question it, which is where we find ourselves on this forum. So....
I guess I enjoyed the explosions. :|
Well the original trilogy did have a white guy that was dressed as a black guy that commanded loads of guys in white
...with a black guy's voice.
It would have been so much more fun if he sounded like the Green Cross Man though.

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Re: The Star Wars thread

Post by DPrinny » Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:31 pm

Or Mr T
I pitty da foo dat dont join the Darkside

Watched Solo
Liked it

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Re: The Star Wars thread

Post by mr jenzie » Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:41 pm

seen it today on IMAX

very very good

there are problems OF COURSE THERE ARE PROBLEMS

the running time is it's main one ..... and just like DARK OF THE MOON it needed to be in TWO parts! just far too much to fit in and too many characters who didn't get ANY worthwhile scenes

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Re: The Star Wars thread

Post by DPrinny » Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:53 pm

mr jenzie wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 1:41 pm
seen it today on IMAX

very very good

there are problems OF COURSE THERE ARE PROBLEMS

the running time is it's main one ..... and just like DARK OF THE MOON it needed to be in TWO parts! just far too much to fit in and too many characters who didn't get ANY worthwhile scenes
My problems with it is the constant going back on stuff
He died, no he didnt
Trailer bait C3PO thing, that gets undone
HE DIED! *Casts res* NO HE DIDNT! Dies again

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Re: The Star Wars thread

Post by Antiriad2097 » Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:54 am

The problems with it are mainly the fault of The Last Jedi. If there'd been a token script written than outlined the overall arc to follow, Rian Johnson wouldn't have thrown away so much that was set up in The Force Awakens. Given what happened in Ep 8, they patched and tied things up pretty well. I liked TLJ (grumpy Luke is ace, I love that saber toss at the start), but it was clear it wasn't written with TFA and TROS in mind. The death fake outs were poor though, I'll give you that.
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Re: The Star Wars thread

Post by DPrinny » Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:00 am

I watch the Dragonball series's's so should be used to death fake-outs, but with that they stay dead for a while, this on the other hand, its within ten minutes

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Re: The Star Wars thread

Post by ToxieDogg » Wed Mar 04, 2020 10:36 pm

Really didn't like Rise Of Skywalker. Nothing to do with 'politics' or 'agendas' either, it just didn't work as the conclusion to the Skywalker saga.

1. Palpatine should not have just randomly been bought back without any build up for one movie, daft decision, although this stems from Rian Johnson's even dafter decision to kill off Snoke in the previous film. One of the great things about the original trilogy was the whole 'hero's journey' and natural progression of all the characters, including the bad guys. Here it was just 'Oh, Palpatine's back. No explanation. And he's got a giant army of Star Destroyers with planet destroying cannons as well. Oh, and he's Rey's grandfather. Sorry we didn't even hint at any of that in the last 2 movies. But we did do some radio transmissions in bloody Fortnite :roll: '

2. Rey and Kylo randomly developing healing powers and the ability to bring people back from the dead with no explanation was silly as well, when no Jedi/Sith before them has done this? Don't come at me with something about stuff in the games/comics/books, I shouldn't have to be clued up on a load of outside knowledge to follow what happens in the movies. So the Force is basically having superpowers now.

3. 'They fly now!' Yes, you berks. They always had that capability. Boba Fett, anybody? And if you want to bring the games/comics etc. into it, there's plenty of jetpack Stormtroopers in those.

4. The Knights Of Ren...was there any point to these guys at all??

5. That kiss between Rey and Kylo...what the hell?? Again, why???

6. Why would Rey even take the Skywalker name with all the negativity it had (Anakin turning to the dark side, Luke almost killing his nephew and exiling himself, etc.) She had the strongest relationship and most trainimg from Leia, who identified as an Organa. So wouldn't Rey Organa have made a lot more sense?

7. Does it even count as the Skywalker Saga anymore when the entire Skywalker bloodline was wiped out and the last Jedi standing is a Palpatine descendant?

8. Finn was an utterly wasted character in all 3 movies. Honestly feel bad for the character, I had really high hopes for him.

I could go on and on and on but won't. It was a stupid movie though. I don't need the internet to convince me it was bad, JJ Abrams did a good enough job of that himself :lol:
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Re: The Star Wars thread

Post by Megamixer » Thu Mar 12, 2020 3:44 pm

I still haven't watched Rise. TLJ was so bad in my eyes that I simply cannot be bothered with the franchise anymore.

The Luke force projection thing was terrible and really robbed us of the battle we thought we were about to see. Worse was that crap in space with the pink-haired bird. Run away, fight, run away, fight...it got boring and that entire section + the characters involved felt like an enormous waste of time that nobody cared about.

And then there was all that mystery about Snoke post-TFA...remember all the analysis and theories? But he just turns out to be some evil bloke who gets offed in such an anticlimactic way.

Obviously, I haven't watched ROS, so if there is some Snoke development there then I'm unaware of it. However, from what I have read about Palpatine's return and all the other highly convenient, unexplained plot points, I'm not sure I'll ever care enough. Palpatine died. He was thrown into the Death Star's core. End of. You can't just keep bringing people back and have them say, "I survived because REASONS"

Makes me wish that Disney had not been so arrogant and had bought the scripts that Lucas supposedly had for these films.
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