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Re: The Star Wars thread

Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 7:08 am
by mrmessy
There seem to be quite a few people in general (hardcore SW fans?) really hating TLJ, which I find quite odd. I would suggest, despite it's arguable flaws, that The Last Jedi is still leagues ahead of episodes 1-3 in terms of dialogue, script, likeable characters and overall Star Warsy-ness. Episodes 1-3 seem to get worse every time I watch them. Although 3 is a bit better. You just cannot please everyone.

And dare I say it, even episodes 4-6 seem a little ropey-er than I remember them when I watch them with the kids now. I still love them, but one of the lenses from my rose-tinted spectacles may have fallen out, and I realise some of the love is from childhood nostalgia. Which is fine.

Anyway, if you have not seen it yet, just expect TLJ to be crap and you might like it.

Re: The Star Wars thread

Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:00 am
by Antiriad2097
I agree, it is a little strange that there is so much backlash against it. I think it comes down to two things mainly:

1) It isn't what they wanted. There were certain things that go against the build up from previous episodes, particularly with regard to Luke. They wanted to see him being the Jedi Master he'd been built up to be, instead of the tired old man he'd become. They wanted another ESB, where our heroes put up a good fight. Mostly, things don't work out for anyone particularly well here. Even leading from TFA, Snoke remains largely unexplained.

2) It isn't what they expected. Everything is turned on its head. We don't just get a rehash of plot like TFA. It's very much unlike any of the preceding films, except perhaps the depressing tone of Rogue One. Luke doesn't care about the Jedi any more, Leia doesn't get the anticipated send off, Poe runs round in circles, Finn's plot is largely pointless.

This isn't The Phantom Menace, where there's half a good film buried under boring politics and OTT slapstick. It's a good movie. It just defies all expectations and fanboy desires, a little like the prequels did. With the prequels, I wanted to see the rise of Vader and have him hunting down Jedi - all of the bits between Episode 3 and Rogue One. Perhaps we'll see that in future? Ewan McGregor could pull off an appropriately aged Obi-Wan for that now. TFA set us up with a fast paced movie that felt like old Star Wars. This feels like Star Wars, but not the one of old. It's a new thing, and I believe an interesting thing that will offer much to discuss in the years to come.

There are some misplaced elements. The dialogue is occasionally a little off - some of the jokes seem non-Star Warsy (e.g. Chrome Dome), and Snoke's use of 'juice' is too earthly grounded. Animal Rescue feels like it's from another Disney property, more like Jurassic Park perhaps? These things don't ruin the movie though, they're small glitches in one of the deepest movies in the series imo.

Some of the complaints I don't quite get though. Luke's reaction to his old saber was brilliant, echoing Leia a little ("You came in that thing, you're braver than I thought"). Total disregard for it, just a piece of crap he'd left behind with no meaning. Unexpected, but well played.

I'm much more excited by this than Rogue One, but then I'm a big fan of TFA. Perhaps many of the complainants are those who didn't take to that either?

Re: The Star Wars thread

Posted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:43 pm
by sscott
Antiriad2097 wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2017 8:00 am
I agree, it is a little strange that there is so much backlash against it. I think it comes down to two things mainly:

1) It isn't what they wanted. There were certain things that go against the build up from previous episodes, particularly with regard to Luke. They wanted to see him being the Jedi Master he'd been built up to be, instead of the tired old man he'd become. They wanted another ESB, where our heroes put up a good fight. Mostly, things don't work out for anyone particularly well here. Even leading from TFA, Snoke remains largely unexplained.

2) It isn't what they expected. Everything is turned on its head. We don't just get a rehash of plot like TFA. It's very much unlike any of the preceding films, except perhaps the depressing tone of Rogue One. Luke doesn't care about the Jedi any more, Leia doesn't get the anticipated send off, Poe runs round in circles, Finn's plot is largely pointless.

This isn't The Phantom Menace, where there's half a good film buried under boring politics and OTT slapstick. It's a good movie. It just defies all expectations and fanboy desires, a little like the prequels did. With the prequels, I wanted to see the rise of Vader and have him hunting down Jedi - all of the bits between Episode 3 and Rogue One. Perhaps we'll see that in future? Ewan McGregor could pull off an appropriately aged Obi-Wan for that now. TFA set us up with a fast paced movie that felt like old Star Wars. This feels like Star Wars, but not the one of old. It's a new thing, and I believe an interesting thing that will offer much to discuss in the years to come.

There are some misplaced elements. The dialogue is occasionally a little off - some of the jokes seem non-Star Warsy (e.g. Chrome Dome), and Snoke's use of 'juice' is too earthly grounded. Animal Rescue feels like it's from another Disney property, more like Jurassic Park perhaps? These things don't ruin the movie though, they're small glitches in one of the deepest movies in the series imo.

Some of the complaints I don't quite get though. Luke's reaction to his old saber was brilliant, echoing Leia a little ("You came in that thing, you're braver than I thought"). Total disregard for it, just a piece of crap he'd left behind with no meaning. Unexpected, but well played.

I'm much more excited by this than Rogue One, but then I'm a big fan of TFA. Perhaps many of the complainants are those who didn't take to that either?
I'm in the middle of hate vs love. But killing off snoke with no back story was bizzare. There are about 50 rebels left. I would like a year or two timeline gap to fill in where they go from here. Kylo Ren still a work in progress... wonder if the kid at the end will feature? Probably not

Re: The Star Wars thread

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:24 am
by kiwimike
Well after coming out of TLJ, I wasn't sure what to think- lots to take in. After some thought, I really like it. It's atmosphere kind of reminds me of the Galactica remake. But I like that too so all good. There were a couple of Hmmm moments, but it didn't ruin it for me. ESB and Rogue one are still my favourite two personally, but I enjoyed it.
I was prepared to hate it after seeing so much venom online about it. Really not sure what that's about. I don't know what a 'true' Star Wars fan is, or what a 'real' Star Wars movie is at the end of the day! :lol:

Re: The Star Wars thread

Posted: Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:59 am
by psj3809
Spoilers ahead....

Seen it twice. At first i was a bit disappointed, a lot of things surprised me (wasnt keen on the humour by Poe at the beginning), Snoke getting killed off (then again a nice surprise really as we probably all expected it at the end).

The main story of the imperials basically chasing the rebels i thought was poor but then again thats how Star Wars kinda started but they caught up with the ship. Luke being down trodden/fed up/wanting to stay alone i thought was quite cool as that line about 'you expect me to take down the empire' was good as many fans probably thought that would happen. The Porgs werent offensive, those 'nun' type creatures i thought looked too much like nuns though ! Leia doing her mary poppins impression was dire, perfect time to kill her off. Reading more about it online its not 'that' offensive, she used the force for the first time etc, just very OTT and didnt feel like the Star Wars world i knew. But then again its not just for me, think a lot of super geeks were upset as there were a few non star wars style things going on.

Anyway the fans giving it 2/10 and worst film ever crap - totally embarassing. It wasnt a perfect film but no way was it a 4/10 type of film. As a fan i would give it 7/10, not bad. Had some great moments - fight at the end with Luke, fight with Rey/Kylo against Snokes guards etc. Intro was great. Didnt mind the Canto Bight scene but hated the original Codebreaker (like some world war II pilot). Wish there was the odd alien we recognise there, just like Force Awakens it was completely new aliens.

But not a bad film, still enjoyed it the second time and looking out for things i might have missed. I'm more nervous about the Han Solo film as i keep reading how bad the lead actor is, how it was originally a 'comedy' style film and even the new director hasnt changed it tons. Time will tell

Re: The Star Wars thread

Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:58 am
by sscott
Lando should have been in there! That would have been Cool!

Re: The Star Wars thread

Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:26 am
by Pointman
There be SPOILERS here, let the curiosity die, kill it if you have to...




I don't think that Star Wars going in a new direction is the main problem with the fans, in fact a lot of comments made about the film seem to suggest that it could be a good thing. The problem lies with Rian Johnson's attempts at a bold new direction being neutered and ultimately resigning it to the same old beats. I thought at one point in the film that Kylo and Rey were really going to try something different, to attempt a reconciliation between the Jedi and the Sith that would create something new and exciting. However this idea stumbled when Kylo decided to embrace the Dark Side again and Rey the Light. Why did Kylo kill Snoke again if only to go back to being a cliched baddie? If anything he turns into more of a pantomime villain after this chance to change to status quo. There is nothing startlingly original about any of this, Johnson just wanted Snoke out of the way for "reasons". Holdo's withholding her "plan" from everyone lead to a sub plot that went nowhere, only to highlight social agendas that don't belong in a Star Wars film. This leads Poe to arranging a justified mutiny that when foiled and is told of the actual plan, says that it might just work. He would have had the same reaction if told about the plan initially! I can't believe how bad the writing was for this entire setup. And then there is Luke...sad, disheveled, curmudgeonly, defeated Luke. Paragraphs have been written about the assassination of his character which I won't go into here, but Rian Johnson's explanation for why he goes into exile is baffling. He abandons his friends, family and the galaxy because it's the Jedi religion's fault that all the bad things happen and if he takes himself out of the equation then he is saving everyone. What!? That's his reasoning!? I'm lost for words.

TL;DR In summary fans would have accepted change if the story had been written coherently.

Also the film was a retread of ROTJ and ESB. At one point a character on Crait mentioned that the white stuff on the floor is salt instead of snow, just to tell the audience that this is different to the walker attack on Hoth. Amazing.

Re: The Star Wars thread

Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:38 pm
by ALK
Apparently the trailer for the Han Solo movie could be shown during the Super Bowl Half Time show.

Re: The Star Wars thread

Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 5:48 am
by psj3809
I enjoyed the last Jedi. Wasn’t perfect but most films aren’t. Problem is what with the internet, twitter etc everyone thinks they’re Barry Norman and their opinion about the latest Star Wars film is right.

Yeah I was expecting Luke to destroy the empire but the twist of him being a recluse was a good one in my view. Just happy with the amount of Star Wars we’re getting. Amazing stuff

I’m sure episode 9 won’t be perfect but as always a small group of hardcore fans will go crazy about the plot line etc

Re: The Star Wars thread

Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:47 pm
by Pointman
Unfortunately if people like this kind of Star Wars film then Disney will continue to make them this way, ultimately diluting them to the likes of the green milk that Luke slavishly drinks straight from the boob of a space cow. If they do then I for one will be out. I'll still have the originals though, which I think were a product of their time. Nothing has been able to capture the magic since, it was like capturing lightning in a bottle. I'm glad I was around for that.

Re: The Star Wars thread

Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:00 am
by Antiriad2097
:roll:

Re: The Star Wars thread

Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:49 pm
by psj3809
Antiriad2097 wrote:
Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:00 am
:roll:
Anyway !

Han Solo teaser trailer tonight and a full trailer in the US on Monday apparently. I’m watching the Super Bowl tonight (US feed) so should see the teaser. Fingers crossed it’s decent (and there’s no red milk this time or it’ll offend some older fans :)

Re: The Star Wars thread

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:14 am
by Antiriad2097
Watched the Solo teaser trailer this morning. It isn't giving much away. A couple of potentially interesting scenes surrounded by a lot of nothing much, so its hard to get any sort of feel for how it will be. It does suggest we'll see at least some part of his military career though, which is something I don't know much about. Looks like it will take in the Chewie/Han origins though, which is good if predictable. A little surprised to see the Falcon in there, somehow I always imagined it coming much later in his life.

Re: The Star Wars thread

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 5:28 am
by psj3809
Well the full trailer arrives this afternoon so that should be good. The teaser was decent. Still nervous about this one but fingers crossed it’s good

Re: The Star Wars thread

Posted: Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:39 am
by psj3809