France vs Ireland Qualifier

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Fred83
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Re: France vs Ireland Qualifier

Post by Fred83 » Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:05 pm

hopefully we get the luck of the irish and get a rematch!

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paranoid marvin
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Re: France vs Ireland Qualifier

Post by paranoid marvin » Thu Nov 19, 2009 3:54 pm

Henry has openly admitted he deliberately handballed. Very honest of him , but now that he has actually admitted he cheated , no one canturn a blind eye - or a deaf ear. There's no doubt about it now - it wasn't a dodgy camera angle , the ball didn't 'bobble' , video evidence showed it clearly and - let's get this clear - HE HAS ADMITTED HE CHEATED.

Now if that doesn't at the very least get him a ban - or in the fairest case scenario Ireland a replay - I don't know what would
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Re: France vs Ireland Qualifier

Post by markopoloman » Thu Nov 19, 2009 4:37 pm

Football corruption goes all the way up - so he will probably get no ban and the Irish will not get a re-match.
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CraigGrannell
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Re: France vs Ireland Qualifier

Post by CraigGrannell » Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:01 pm

Spooky wrote:It's not a defence per se, I'm just saying it's not right to blame just him and not every single professional football player at the same time...
"Every single professional football player" wasn't there last night. It's down to the individual how they act. He could have thrown his hands up, admitted at the time what he'd done. On penalties, chances are France would have won, but the Irish would have gone down fighting. France would have deserved to have been there in just fashion. As it is, this isn't the case.
stvd wrote:I think players diving to win a penalty (while still technically cheating) is part of the game.
That's not "technically cheating"—it's plain old "cheating".
This is not comparable to deliberately handling the ball (twice!).
It really is.
Why do people call this "The Hand of God"? What Henry did was no different...
In the UK, "The Hand of God" is used in sarcastic fashion. In Argentina, it's used to rile the English, what with the Falklands conflict.
Fred83 wrote:hopefully we get the luck of the irish and get a rematch!
Like that'll happen. FIFA got what it wanted—the big teams are through. It won't do anything to jeopardise that.
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Spooky
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Re: France vs Ireland Qualifier

Post by Spooky » Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:25 pm

The argument that "FIFA wanted only the big teams" is really a bad excuse... If that was the case, why didn't the ref give us a penalty when there was rightfully one during the extra time?
Referees make mistakes and it can happen during any match, even in the World Cup finals... we've had our share of bad luck, everyone has!

It's just silly to think the FIFA would grant a rematch... or else, we should replay Serbia-France, Germany-France from World Cup '82, etc...
If all this was in favour of Ireland, I'm not sure they would have said "Oh yes, it's completely unfair. Let's play the match again!".
The referee's mistakes are part of the game, why should we start replaying matches now?
The disappointment is huge, there's no denying that, but it's now in the past... There'll be other unfair decisions made by referees that will be in favour of Ireland!

And why should Henry get a ban? A deliberate use of the hand during a match is only a yellow card...
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Re: France vs Ireland Qualifier

Post by paranoid marvin » Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:52 pm

Spooky wrote:The argument that "FIFA wanted only the big teams" is really a bad excuse... If that was the case, why didn't the ref give us a penalty when there was rightfully one during the extra time?
Referees make mistakes and it can happen during any match, even in the World Cup finals... we've had our share of bad luck, everyone has!

It's just silly to think the FIFA would grant a rematch... or else, we should replay Serbia-France, Germany-France from World Cup '82, etc...
If all this was in favour of Ireland, I'm not sure they would have said "Oh yes, it's completely unfair. Let's play the match again!".
The referee's mistakes are part of the game, why should we start replaying matches now?
The disappointment is huge, there's no denying that, but it's now in the past... There'll be other unfair decisions made by referees that will be in favour of Ireland!

And why should Henry get a ban? A deliberate use of the hand during a match is only a yellow card...

He's brought the game into disrepute - an offence that incorporates a multitude of sins. Not only has he brought it into disrepute , he's a a player who many see as the embodiement of everything that is good about football ; skillful , pacey, a player with flair and a deadly eye for goal. Rarely controversial , usually diplomatic and I'm sure regarded by many as a fair player. By so blatantly cheating in the front of the eyes - and the cameras - of the world , he has not only thrown away all the good feeling many had towards him over the years , but has brought to the surface the ugly face of football. the win-at-all-costs attitude of the sport which says that anything is acceptable as long as the ref doesnt see it.

Probably the biggest mistake he made was doing it against Ireland , who - along with Brazil - seem to be pretty much universally loved by all but their most hated rivals.
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Re: France vs Ireland Qualifier

Post by stvd » Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:52 pm

CraigGrannell wrote:
stvd wrote:I think players diving to win a penalty (while still technically cheating) is part of the game.
That's not "technically cheating"—it's plain old "cheating".
No it isn't, it's a 'grey' area.
If a player makes contact with you it may or may not be enough to bring you down.
Then the tackled player has a choice. Continue on or go down.
There's been contact in the box, technically it's a penalty.
Even the slightest touch when running at speed or turning can be enough for you to lose your
balance or just knock you a little so that the goal scoring opportunity is lost.
In such cases the contact is so minimal that, as a spectator, you might think the player has dived.
You can't be 100% sure.

A player handling the ball, deliberately, twice is completely different.
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Re: France vs Ireland Qualifier

Post by paranoid marvin » Thu Nov 19, 2009 5:59 pm

stvd wrote:
CraigGrannell wrote:
stvd wrote:I think players diving to win a penalty (while still technically cheating) is part of the game.
That's not "technically cheating"—it's plain old "cheating".
No it isn't, it's a 'grey' area.
If a player makes contact with you it may or may not be enough to bring you down.
Then the tackled player has a choice. Continue on or go down.
There's been contact in the box, technically it's a penalty.
Even the slightest touch when running at speed or turning can be enough for you to lose your
balance or just knock you a little so that the goal scoring opportunity is lost.
In such cases the contact is so minimal that, as a spectator, you might think the player has dived.
You can't be 100% sure.

A player handling the ball, deliberately, twice is completely different.

I agree - get fouled in the box , and no-one can complain if the ref gives a penalty. Tbh Henry's handball was FAR more blatant than Maradonna's . Well , the fist was questionable , the second was deliberately pulling the ball back and guiding it onto his foot. I don't blame the officials , because he was in a packed area and the linesman was some distance away. And , tbh , at that level of the game , with the knowledge that every movement is being scrutinesed and replayed all over the world, I don't think it would in anyway be expected that a professional footballer on the world stage would do such a thing.
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CraigGrannell
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Re: France vs Ireland Qualifier

Post by CraigGrannell » Thu Nov 19, 2009 6:56 pm

Spooky wrote:The argument that "FIFA wanted only the big teams" is really a bad excuse... If that was the case, why didn't the ref give us a penalty when there was rightfully one during the extra time?
Then answer this: why did FIFA suddenly decide to seed the play-offs, when it became apparent quite a few big names would otherwise potentially get knocked out by playing each-other? It's clear FIFA would rather France went to the finals than Ireland.
stvd wrote:No it isn't, it's a 'grey' area.
I'm talking about people who weren't touched, and that happens a hell of a lot in the modern game. I agree that the 'slight knock' is perhaps more of a grey area, but modern-day footballers are rather showing themselves up to be wusses if they fall to the ground screaming after getting less contact than you'd get from an elderly gnat accidentally flying into your bonce.
paranoid marvin wrote:Tbh Henry's handball was FAR more blatant than Maradonna's .
I'm not sure I'd go with that. Diminutive Argentinian out-leaps Shilton and practically punches the ball into the net.
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Re: France vs Ireland Qualifier

Post by Smurph » Thu Nov 19, 2009 8:52 pm

CraigGrannell wrote:
Spooky wrote:The argument that "FIFA wanted only the big teams" is really a bad excuse... If that was the case, why didn't the ref give us a penalty when there was rightfully one during the extra time?
Then answer this: why did FIFA suddenly decide to seed the play-offs, when it became apparent quite a few big names would otherwise potentially get knocked out by playing each-other? It's clear FIFA would rather France went to the finals than Ireland.
Totally agree with this, I've been saying this since even before Ireland drew France. The seedings are a transparent farce.
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the_hawk
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Re: France vs Ireland Qualifier

Post by the_hawk » Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:17 am

I've never heard such whinging in all my life. Shite decisions happen in practically every football game I've ever seen ever.

In the Northern Ireland V France 1982 World cup quarter final Martin O'Neill had a perfectly good goal ruled out for offside, are we going to replay that too?

What about the Accrington Stanley V Bournemouth game from the other week where Bournemouth got a throw in that should have gone Stanley's way?

I agree the seeding was harsh on the lower ranked nations, but there was a 4 in 7 chance that the Republic of Ireland would have drawn a seeded nation anyway!

The ref made an error of judgement not some big FIFA conspiricy.

I'd be absolutely devastated if it happened to Northern Ireland, but if I was a Republic fan I'd be more concerned about Paul McShane's inability to track his man & Robbie Keane's squandered chances.

Frankly all the bleating about it from the FAI & Irish politicians has evaporated any sympathy I may have otherwise had.

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Re: France vs Ireland Qualifier

Post by binaryRooster » Fri Nov 20, 2009 4:33 am

The only instance of a game ever being replayed that i can recall, is when Arsenal offered a replay to Sheffield United in the cup after a dubious goal (a rare occurence of Wenger seeing the incident). There's no way in a million years, that France will offer a replay. Qualifiying for the World Cup means a boost to your nation's economy and morale - there's no way France would risk that now it's actually in their hands.

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Re: France vs Ireland Qualifier

Post by lanky316 » Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:37 am

The only reason it got a replay was that Sheffield would never be able to do it twice at Highbury (at the time), it was a faux gesture.

This incident is all down to the linos incompetence, he had a clear view and didn't see anything, supposedly. Of course the oft ridiculed extra officials behind the goal system should have prevented it.

The reality is teams away to big boys at any level can and do find it tough. Last year Stevenage were knocked out of the play offs because a player got sent off for passing the ball and being caught late, Spurs scoring from miles out at Old Trafford and it not being given, I'm sure everyone could find similar "mistakes".

Unlucky for RoI they got caught out this time, that's football and while humans are involved there will always be human errors.
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Re: France vs Ireland Qualifier

Post by the_hawk » Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:49 am

Indeed - One minute & 44 seconds into this clip.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIFCToqGZpk

Or what about this one... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jf9fx4ipF4Q

Part & Parcel of the game I'm afraid.
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Re: France vs Ireland Qualifier

Post by firebreather » Fri Nov 20, 2009 5:56 am

The match wont be replayed nor should it, henry cheated the majority of pro footballers cheat its just that his was more blatant and in a very big game, i hate the cheating in football its always happened on the continent but our game in now littered with it, and that not just the foreigners the vast majority of england team have cheated at some point.
The thing that i still cant believe is how fifa were allowed to change the rules of the competition, introducing seeding to the playoffs when qualification was in the latter stages.
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