Commodore 16

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TMR
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Re: Commodore 16

Post by TMR » Sun Jan 23, 2011 6:11 am

stardust wrote:My understanding: screen update before raster #$50 will not show until next raster line, so character level scroll in hidden by #$50
The raster register keeps an eye on the television's refresh, so it moves down the screen from top to bottom; if the code waits until raster position $50 and alters the screen above that point, the changes won't be visible until the the raster passes that area again during the next frame. The scroll loops in that block of code i posted race against the raster and redraw parts of the screen it's already covered so the movement is seamless, if the timing is messed around so they start earlier, there'll be "tearing" where bits of the next frame are drawn in too early in the upper third of the screen.
stardust wrote:and register level scroll is hidden by #$00.
It's only hidden in the sense that raster position $00 is in the upper border.
stardust wrote:Then scroll up, left, right have no problem. just out of curosity, scroll down also need update the screen from upper part using a temporary buffer ?
It can theoretically be done without a second buffer on the C16 and i suspect a couple of games actually do so in a reduced area because they're desperate for RAM. Just about any scrolling is best handled with two buffers on these machines and, if there's enough memory for two blocks of 2K for display buffers, the TED chip can be repointed to flip between them so the job of copying from one to the other can be spread out over a number of frames.
stardust wrote:Do you know how NES and Genesis scrolling work? are they the same?
i know how NES scrolling works and it's a very different beast to the C16; there's a lot more brute force copying of data involved with all of the Commodore 8-bits.

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sack
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Re: Commodore 16

Post by sack » Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:41 am

I think scrolling on the Sega genesis is similar to scrolling on the sega mastersystem, only you have several layers you can scroll independently. I'm more familiar with the mastersystem at the moment, so I'll explain that way:

It's similar to the C16/64, only you don't have the 8-pixel limit, so you can scroll all the way across the screen so the right hand side edge actually forms the first column of pixels. It also wraps around, so for example with the screen set up with no scrolling you would see:
|<- screen width->|
|123456789ABCDE|F

Notice that the 'F' is outside of the screen width. This column gives you a hidden area to put the new character (or tile as the console lot like to call them), and once the scrolling has been incremented by 8 pixels the display layout will be:

|<- screen width->|
|23456789ABCDEF|1

and the technique is used over and over again until eventually as the scroll counter wraps around you'll end up where you started. This is handy because you only need to update 1 column of data each 8 pixels and you don't need to move the data. Y-scrolling uses a similar technique.

If you don't quite see what I mean install the MEKA mastersystem emulator and open up the video memory window. You'll see in the output window the TV display and the screen memory window will have white lines drawn on it to show where the left/right edges of the display are. If you try this with chuck rock you can see the c64 scrolling method in use (No idea why), other games will use the way I've described.

I might knock up some example code to explain this later if I get the chance...
A9 00 8D 20 D0 8D 21 D0 60

ramjet
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Re: Commodore 16

Post by ramjet » Fri Mar 11, 2011 7:01 am

Hi, i am looking for a c16 or plus 4 emulator for my nintendo ds. I can find other 8 bit emulators including the c64 but cant find my sweet c16. seems weird as hell playing the cpc range on the ds. :)

I am looking specifically for a c16+4 ds emulator, i already know of the ones for the pc.

Any help would be appreciated. Any programming whizzes capable of converting existing work like yape to the ds?

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Re: Commodore 16

Post by retro-play-uk » Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:22 am

My favourites are Kikstart and Tycoon Tex, I recently hunted down a copy of Tycoon Tex, just got to find the computer to play it on...

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Re: Commodore 16

Post by Katzkatz » Fri Mar 11, 2011 9:58 am

I remember I had one school friend who owned one of these machines. Remember their black cases. Only game we played on it was ACE, a flight simulator. Anyone else play it? I know it came out on the C64 as well.

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Re: Commodore 16

Post by clarance » Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:13 pm

ramjet wrote:Hi, i am looking for a c16 or plus 4 emulator for my nintendo ds. I can find other 8 bit emulators including the c64 but cant find my sweet c16. seems weird as hell playing the cpc range on the ds. :)

I am looking specifically for a c16+4 ds emulator, i already know of the ones for the pc.

Any help would be appreciated. Any programming whizzes capable of converting existing work like yape to the ds?
There's no C16 emulator on the DS unfortunately - if you want to stir up some interest then post on the plus/4 world forum - the right sort of chaps for this sort of thing hang out there I believe, and it's a fantastic resource for all things C16 (and plus/4).
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Re: Commodore 16

Post by ramjet » Sat Mar 12, 2011 12:46 pm

clarance wrote:
ramjet wrote:Hi, i am looking for a c16 or plus 4 emulator for my nintendo ds. I can find other 8 bit emulators including the c64 but cant find my sweet c16. seems weird as hell playing the cpc range on the ds. :)

I am looking specifically for a c16+4 ds emulator, i already know of the ones for the pc.

Any help would be appreciated. Any programming whizzes capable of converting existing work like yape to the ds?
There's no C16 emulator on the DS unfortunately - if you want to stir up some interest then post on the plus/4 world forum - the right sort of chaps for this sort of thing hang out there I believe, and it's a fantastic resource for all things C16 (and plus/4).
thank for the reply, may post a request there. would die for a c16 emulator on the ds.

would play g-man, thrust, jet set willy, prospector pete,kickstart and rockman to name a few

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Re: Commodore 16

Post by Shinobi » Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:18 pm

retro-play-uk wrote:My favourites are Kikstart and Tycoon Tex, I recently hunted down a copy of Tycoon Tex, just got to find the computer to play it on...
Was Tycoon Tex a separate release are on the 4 in 1 compilation? Was my mothers favourite game, I had Xargon Wars and Petals of Doom with my Plus 4 but Tycoon Tex was missing annoyingly so
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Re: Commodore 16

Post by clarance » Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:34 pm

Tycoon Tex was indeed a separate release, but was later included in the Gremlin Graphics C16 Classics compilation - great little game, and a great compilation for that matter -

Image
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Re: Commodore 16

Post by ramjet » Sun Mar 13, 2011 8:19 am

gremlin graphics, best c16 game easily Trail Blazers. well hard to play.

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Shinobi
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Re: Commodore 16

Post by Shinobi » Sun Mar 13, 2011 2:10 pm

clarance wrote:Tycoon Tex was indeed a separate release, but was later included in the Gremlin Graphics C16 Classics compilation - great little game, and a great compilation for that matter -

Image
Excellent I used to own this, but sold all the games when my 16 broke just keeping Bongo and 3d Glooper.. Having both a working Commodore 16 and plus 4 never see on Ebay, or any of the games I'm after like Tomcat, Ghost Town or Robo Knight

Best games that used to own are G Man, Auto Zone, Powerball, Jack Attack, Fingers Malone, Summer games, Manic Miner Terra Nova.. Me and my friend always used to play Storm
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Re: Commodore 16

Post by Sixteen Plus » Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:18 am

@Shinobi. Most of the games you've mentioned have now been transferred onto casseette ready for posting along with the others when I'm next in town. You'll love the new added music in Tower Of Evil, which will now only run in 64K. The regular C16 version just has some simple standard blip noises. Saboteur 2 for the +4 is also on the cassette which is a faithful fanport.
ramjet wrote:gremlin graphics, best c16 game easily Trail Blazers. well hard to play.
Both Trailblazer and A.C.E were first concieved on the C16, and afterwards converted over for other systems. There's 2 versions of A.C.E, one for the C16 and a seperate one for the Plus/4 which equals the C64 version, all of them are great :)

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Re: Commodore 16

Post by ramjet » Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:49 pm

firebird / silverbird made some pretty good budget games if i remember. used to be a member of the firebird penpal club.

spiky harold?. codemasters were good too with the dizzy games

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Sixteen Plus
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Re: Commodore 16

Post by Sixteen Plus » Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:14 am

The Dizzy games were not officially released for the C16/+4. The versions we now have are later fanmade C64 ports which will only work on the Plussy or on an upgraded C16.

Thrust was Firebird's best C16 game, but there was a graphics glitch which made the screen flicker quite badly. Fortunately last year, the original programmer came back and fixed it for us, now it's every bit as good as the C64 version :)

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Re: Commodore 16

Post by ramjet » Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:38 pm

was probably thinking of the dizzy series when i owed a cpc 6128

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