Manhunt 2 - the debate

jimbo_too · Post by **jimbo_too** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:20 pm

Linkage

D'oh! Just when it looked like it might be released, the BBFC takes Rockstar to court, claiming that their successful appeal undermines their authority.

This has become something of a silly merry-go-round. Just ban it or release it, make up your damn minds!

JetSetWilly · Post by **JetSetWilly** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:51 pm

its a bleeding merry-go-round

first its banned, then its released, now its banned again.

what the fudgecake is going on???

sscott · Post by **sscott** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:59 pm

Would you buy it anyway? Is it any good? Lets take Nintendo to court over their hideously priced VC downloads. I know we have a choice not too buy them but I'm sure I'll get a Wii Points card or two at Christmas. Will only buy classic NES games like SMW 3 with them I think.

C=Style · Post by **C=Style** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:15 pm

Ban it I say! and let that be the end of this miserable little game.

Shin_Gouki · Post by **Shin_Gouki** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 5:19 pm

From the linked article:

"Both sides agreed that the game was not suitable for children, but the BBFC argued that if given a certificate for release, it could still end up in the hands of minors."

Minors have been watching violent films without their parent's knowledge for years - shouldn't they be banned? And underage kids frequently obtain alcohol, so bugger everyone, lets ban that too.

jimbo_too · Post by **jimbo_too** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:26 pm

Let's ban boobies - sure, they're nutritious for the kids and fun for the guys, but some kiddies might get all messed up by seeing some in a movie and go on a killing spree with AIDS-riddled hypodermics and sharpened copies of Manhunt.

Let's make a big list of all the things in the world that should be banned so that children might grow up in a world completely free of conflict and stress, so that when they become adults they are unable to function and regress to an infantile state, before being sectioned and a whole generation of our youth being lost to mental enfeeblement! Yay! Then we can send the list to Gordon Brown and he will make it so/completely ignore us!

I'll start us off:

Let's ban the letter 'u' - it's used in all of the rudest swearwords after all, and we don't want our children to have the language tools necessary to explicate their feelings when they hit their thumb with a hammer, do we?

thl · Post by **thl** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:53 pm

Shin_Gouki wrote:From the linked article:

"Both sides agreed that the game was not suitable for children, but the BBFC argued that if given a certificate for release, it could still end up in the hands of minors."

Minors have been watching violent films without their parent's knowledge for years - shouldn't they be banned? And underage kids frequently obtain alcohol, so bugger everyone, lets ban that too.

That's right. Minors who are that young are trying to get away with it. When I was at Gamestation few months ago, one lad (I think aged 9-10) asked me to help him buy PS2 Scarface for him. I said 'Sorry I can't', which he then continued asking more customers (or grown-ups) to help him.

Desipte the influences of violent content in video games, I'd witnessed minors (or teenagers) using anti-social behaviours, murdering one another, wanted to belong in a gang culture and all that crap. It's something that never been dealt seriously which could go on for years to come.

sscott wrote:Would you buy it anyway? Is it any good?

It's not worth getting to be honest.

merman · Post by **merman** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:04 pm

JetSetWilly wrote:its a bleeding merry-go-round

first its banned, then its released, now its banned again.

what the fudgecake is going on???

To summarise

It was banned by the BBFC here and given an Adults Only rating in America, which meant Sony and Nintendo effectively banned it from being released on their machines.

Rockstar appealed and went back with the "cut" version, which gained a release in the US. Only for a hacker to reveal that, like the Hot Coffee mod for GTA San Andreas, some of the supposedly cut material was still in there.

Rockstar won its appeal here against the BBFC, which is why it looked like it might be released here after all. But the BBFC has contested that decision, on the basis that Rockstar misinterpreted part of the Video Recordings Act that is used to rate games as well as films.

That's why it's effectively banned again here, until the hearing in the New Year

Dudley · Post by **Dudley** » Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:17 pm

sscott wrote:Would you buy it anyway? Is it any good?

It's quite possibly the worst thing I've played this year. That doesn't change that banning it is both stupid, reactionary and a serious threat to our hobby.

Minors have been watching violent films without their parent's knowledge for years - shouldn't they be banned? And underage kids frequently obtain alcohol, so bugger everyone, lets ban that too. Rolling Eyes

Indeed, also ban cars, cricket bats and anything made of glass. Banning it completely because it MIGHT fall into the wrong hands is the height of lazyness and stupidity. Why not criminalise the supply. Don't punish US because a minority of parents are stupid and lazy. Don't punish us, prosecute them.

That's right. Minors who are that young are trying to get away with it. When I was at Gamestation few months ago, one lad (I think aged 9-10) asked me to help him buy PS2 Scarface for him. I said 'Sorry I can't', which he then continued asking more customers (or grown-ups) to help him.

Good thing too, if you had you and the shop assistant could be spending 2 years in jail.

It's illegal to supply a BBFC rated anything to a kid unless you're the legal guardian. I'd personally close that loophole.

sscott · Post by **sscott** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 4:11 am

Staff at video game store are pretty vigilant these days and so its most likely the parents knowingling buying the 18+ games for them. 10 year olds should not be playing these games.

Dudley · Post by **Dudley** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 4:41 am

sscott wrote:Staff at video game store are pretty vigilant these days and so its most likely the parents knowingling buying the 18+ games for them. 10 year olds should not be playing these games.

They're vigilent because in the case of PEGI games it would an instant firing from any reputable retailer and for BBFC is means 2 years in prison and a Â£50,000 fine.

My proposal is, and always has been, extend that penalty to parents who supply too.

James A · Post by **James A** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 7:44 am

I have a feeling even if Rockstar win this ruling there will still be more hurdles to pass in order to get it out. If it is passed though i do believe we will see stricter regulation of computer games by the BBFC or by new legislation brought in in a wave of moral panic.

To be honest Rockstar should justr elease the uncut version of it on the net and stick two fingers up at the BBFC.

Oh and if were on about banning stuff how about religion. How many people has that killed this week alone?

thl · Post by **thl** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 8:34 am

Dudley wrote:
That's right. Minors who are that young are trying to get away with it. When I was at Gamestation few months ago, one lad (I think aged 9-10) asked me to help him buy PS2 Scarface for him. I said 'Sorry I can't', which he then continued asking more customers (or grown-ups) to help him.
Good thing too, if you had you and the shop assistant could be spending 2 years in jail.

It's illegal to supply a BBFC rated anything to a kid unless you're the legal guardian. I'd personally close that loophole.

Thanks for mentioning it Dud.

It just one of those things that I didn't expect to happen when I was browsing at the video game store. Because it appeared on the shelves quite often, youngsters are so willing to have a go on it. About that lad who surprisingly came up to me with a game certificated 18, it left me wondering 'why does he want to buy it if he's not old enough to play it'.

jimbo_too · Post by **jimbo_too** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 8:39 am

I had a kid offer me Â£10 on top of the money for the game to buy Killer7 for him in Virgin Megastore (now Zavvi, ZAVVI for f*ck's sake!). When I said no, he just kept asking around. Probably got somebody to buy it for him in the end.

Dudley · Post by **Dudley** » Sat Dec 22, 2007 9:07 am

thl wrote: It just one of those things that I didn't expect to happen when I was browsing at the video game store. Because it appeared on the shelves quite often, youngsters are so willing to have a go on it. About that lad who surprisingly came up to me with a game certificated 18, it left me wondering 'why does he want to buy it if he's not old enough to play it'.

Personally I'd have been wondering "Why does he want to buy it, it's crap."

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