Emulation Vs Original Carts

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vintage_system
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Emulation Vs Original Carts

Post by vintage_system » Sat Jul 21, 2007 2:25 am

What do people think?

This past two weeks i've been going mad on Ebay, buying up all these old vintage games, systems and what-not.

Then i thought, hang-on, what am i doing?

I thought about the Wii, most of the old school games i want to play i can play via virtual console. I guess i thought i was gonna become some kinda awesome video games collector, but then i thought, what is it about these games that i want?

And yes, i know emulation and roms are frowned upon in regards to talking about them on forums, but more i wanted to have a discussion about it.

I thought about this idea that we are in the 'age of the controller'. So i thought, maybe thats what i want, you know. I want to be able to sit there with a SNES pad in my hand, and play the original games the way they were meant to be played.

So i found out about all these adapters you can buy for Wii that plug in your old SNES, NES and 64 controllers.

I think that just about does it for me. Why collect games? I think i want to collect controllers. Because thats the only real difference between the old cart versions and the re-issues we're seeing today.

Of course, you miss out of the box and instructions, but, meh.

But maybe also handhelds, and Game and Watch, i think thats an entirely different kettle of fish, because the handheld itself is the controller, so in essence you have to buy the handheld to collect the controller.

Has anyone ever heard of a type of cartridge that would slot into a Gameboy but have like 50 games on it? Has anyone taken current tech and developed a cart that may contain, say, 50 roms ~ and jacks into a Gameboy? Or something along those lines~ even official carts...

On another completely different note i think a thing that holds back PC gaming in a massive way is the Qwerty keyboard. All the consoles evolve throughout the years, but PC still has the same old keyboard, doesn't anyone think that's lame?

Anyway enough for now, what do other people think are the virtues of emulation over the real-deal?

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Post by paranoid marvin » Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:03 am

For certain types of game , the mouse and keyboard is a perfect combination - it's like a contoller with about 60 buttons! - and don't forget some were using the keyboard to control their characters back in the days of the Speccy

Regarding the use of Wii & 360 downloads/emulationvs the original machine , the main problem for most is probably lack of space - how many of us would have an arcade cab if we had somewhwere to put it -personally I would pay up to 2 grand for a Star Wars Cockpit - if only I had somewhere to put it!

retro games are like antiques - the feel of the cart in your hands , opening the box , reading the original instruction manuals - even waiting for a cassette to load - emulation just can't compare. And regardless of whichever emulator you use , whether official or no , it's unlikely that it will be 100% faithful

You're right of course that use of the correct controllers is essential for some machines - you might as well not bother playing N64 games without the 'trident' , and many SNES games weredesigned around the controller - certanly SMW is an entirely different experience when played with any other controller
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Post by rossi46 » Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:47 am

I collect the originals because I want to have them as well as play them. Why else would anyone in their right mind stay up late watching Sega Saturn The Crow, The Incredible Hulk and Johnny Bazookatone on Ebay, ready to jump in with some last minute bidding? :)

Not because I want to play them, that's for sure. No, they'll look good on my shelf as part of a complete collection. Emulators are great for trying stuff out, but for me, they tend to devalue gaming.
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Post by paranoid marvin » Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:49 am

rossi46 wrote:I collect the originals because I want to have them as well as play them. Why else would anyone in their right mind stay up late watching Sega Saturn The Crow, The Incredible Hulk and Johnny Bazookatone on Ebay, ready to jump in with some last minute bidding? :)

Not because I want to play them, that's for sure. No, they'll look good on my shelf as part of a complete collection. Emulators are great for trying stuff out, but for me, they tend to devalue gaming.
agreed , in the same way that C90s devalued taped-based games in the 80s
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Post by vintage_system » Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:56 am

So what are games then if they are simply reduced to the shelf? Is it to look cool that you own an intense amount of games? That's a real interesting point.

"I want them to look good on my shelf".

To me in a sense that notion devalues gaming, because then they're not games, they're merely objects. In a sense the game, virtual or not, is the real deal, its the only thing that really matters. The box, the instructions, inserts and plastic wrapping, all are superfluous compared to the actual game itself, surely?

Its a unique interplay today, the difference, or the relationship, between gamer and collector.
Last edited by vintage_system on Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:05 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by vintage_system » Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:02 am

When the internet first came around there was this notion that it would free us from physicality. We wouldn't need to print anymore, music is virtual, games are virtual, video itself is purely data. But that's been proven wrong. Maybe still we are making that transition into the virtual. We all have printers, we all want consoles and we all want DVD's. In reality there doesn't need to be any of that stuff. The only reason its there is to give it physicality so it can be given a price. In truth, the old cyberpunk adage "information wants to be free" still rings true. But in humans, the collection of physical items still seems like some kinda of need. Maybe, at the core, there is only addiction.

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Post by paranoid marvin » Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:06 am

vintage_system wrote:So what are games then if they are simply reduced to the shelf? Is it to look cool that you own an intense amount of games? That's a real interesting point.

"I want them to look good on my shelf".

To me in a sense that notion devalues gaming, because then they're not games, they're merely objects. In a sense the game, virtual or not, is the real deal, its the only thing that really matters. The box, the instructions, inserts and plastic wrapping, all are superfluous compared to the actual game itself, surely?

Its a unique interplay today, the difference between gamer, and collector.
games are games whether emulated or on a cart

It's the overall experience , something quite important when retro-gaming , that is enhanced
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Post by Opa-Opa » Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:14 am

Just because they are on a shelf don't mean you can't use them..?
Surely your games just sit on your HDD in that case, becoming nothing but files untill you play them.

Emulators are usefull for..

Research
Preservation
Information (such as RG Magazine etc using them to show everyone what the game was about).

The real thing will always be better for actual sitting down and playing though.
For a true collector the Box and the Manual are a part of the game, and for a complete gaming experiance you need to own the lot.

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Post by rossi46 » Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:21 am

I play my games like it's 1997. Let me get that straight so there's no room for doubt. In the debate about emulation versus the real thing, I was pointing out that it's so much better, as far as I'm concerned to physically own the original package than some emulated code on a hard drive. IMO, nothing can beat opening the box and popping the original game into the machine. I do collate, restore and list alphabetically my whole collection, but it gets played as much as ever.
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Post by rossi46 » Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:26 am

vintage_system wrote: Maybe, at the core, there is only addiction.
Yeah!

Why else would anyone trawl through other people's stinking rubbish at carboot sales in the p1ssi1ng rain, just in case there may be a copy of Gianna Sisters or Panzer Saga hidden beneath the pile of 'Your Barbecue' monthly or broken Elvis vinyl? :wink: :roll:
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Post by vintage_system » Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:44 am

Opa-Opa wrote:
The real thing will always be better for actual sitting down and playing though.
I guess it depends on what system. I mean for SNES and NES and old SEGA stuff i really don't see much difference, if any, in the ports. Thats why I make the point about the controllers. Coz really if you're sitting down to play the games, man, all you need is a controller and a screen.

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Post by Opa-Opa » Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:55 am

vintage_system wrote:
Opa-Opa wrote:
The real thing will always be better for actual sitting down and playing though.
I guess it depends on what system. I mean for SNES and NES and old SEGA stuff i really don't see much difference, if any, in the ports. Thats why I make the point about the controllers. Coz really if you're sitting down to play the games, man, all you need is a controller and a screen.
If thats what you belive then fair enough.

I play my games on a TV - an old TV, not a Computer monitor, that makes a difference.
I use real controllers, real hardware and real games when ever possible which does make a difference to a real gamer.
I guess a casual gamer or fanboy wouldn't know enough about the hobby to understand the way in which audio played using the real hardware can sound different to audio played through a piece of software pretending to be hardware for example..?

Don't get me wrong though, I love emulation and all it has to offer, but I prefer to do my serious gaming on the real thing.

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Post by woody.cool » Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:58 am

Opa-Opa wrote:
vintage_system wrote:
Opa-Opa wrote:
The real thing will always be better for actual sitting down and playing though.
I guess it depends on what system. I mean for SNES and NES and old SEGA stuff i really don't see much difference, if any, in the ports. Thats why I make the point about the controllers. Coz really if you're sitting down to play the games, man, all you need is a controller and a screen.
If thats what you belive then fair enough.

I play my games on a TV - an old TV, not a Computer monitor, that makes a difference.
I use real controllers, real hardware and real games when ever possible which does make a difference to a real gamer.
I guess a casual gamer or fanboy wouldn't know enough about the hobby to understand the way in which audio played using the real hardware can sound different to audio played through a piece of software pretending to be hardware for example..?

Don't get me wrong though, I love emulation and all it has to offer, but I prefer to do my serious gaming on the real thing.
I second that one - I have an extensive collection of retro systems and game for them - I much prefer to play on the real thing. Although when it comes to Arcade I have no choice but to use emulation (usually MAME).

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Post by paranoid marvin » Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:59 am

Opa-Opa wrote:
vintage_system wrote:
Opa-Opa wrote:
The real thing will always be better for actual sitting down and playing though.
I guess it depends on what system. I mean for SNES and NES and old SEGA stuff i really don't see much difference, if any, in the ports. Thats why I make the point about the controllers. Coz really if you're sitting down to play the games, man, all you need is a controller and a screen.
If thats what you belive then fair enough.

I play my games on a TV - an old TV, not a Computer monitor, that makes a difference.
I use real controllers, real hardware and real games when ever possible which does make a difference to a real gamer.
I guess a casual gamer or fanboy wouldn't know enough about the hobby to understand the way in which audio played using the real hardware can sound different to audio played through a piece of software pretending to be hardware for example..?

Don't get me wrong though, I love emulation and all it has to offer, but I prefer to do my serious gaming on the real thing.
the 48k Speccy definately does sound different through the onboard speaker , than through a computer speaker

Again , if I had the room , I'd have all the right set-up - and as Opa said , the use of an old telly is a definate advantage. As is waiting 5 mins for the game to load - knowing you can't simply switch roms makes you less inclined to not giving a new game a fair crack before giving up

Playing a bit of 80's music in the background probably helps too!
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Post by Opa-Opa » Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:07 am

paranoid marvin wrote:
Again , if I had the room , I'd have all the right set-up - and as Opa said , the use of an old telly is a definate advantage. As is waiting 5 mins for the game to load - knowing you can't simply switch roms makes you less inclined to not giving a new game a fair crack before giving up

Playing a bit of 80's music in the background probably helps too!
You have a good point with the loading thing.
Loading up the real thing and playing it does stop you just flicking through romz playing snipets of a few games. Also when using 8bit - 16bit games you can't just hit the "save state" hot key and continue from that point if you die, you have to play it as it was intended to be played.

Not sure about the music though, I tend to listen to the game tunes and FX for a full gaming effect :)

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