The problem with Amstrad games

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RocketRanger
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Post by RocketRanger » Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:50 am

oswald wrote:what was wrong with the c64 keyboard ? :shock: and how come everyone bashes cpc / c64 colors, but noone the speccy ? which was your first machine rocketranger?
I like the C64 keyboard in terms of build quality, but it lacks the numeric keypad, arrow keys and argh it has combined function keys. It wasn't a keyboard I'd enjoy using for games. On the plus side, 2 joystick ports as standard!

I had a second hand CPC first (and yes I did ask for a Spectrum) and only picked up the breadbin Commodore in a freak bidding accident at a church bazaar, it was still in production and not a retro purchase. So I admit, didn't cut my teeth on the Commodore so I don't have that weird allegiance to the machine that we all seem to have with our childhood computer.

I thought the C64 was a good games machine, but never considered using it for anything serious.

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Gryzor
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Post by Gryzor » Tue Jul 31, 2007 6:51 am

oswald wrote:either way, my screenshot looks like cpc -> garish colors (according to retrogame community)
your screenshot -> dull colors (according to retrogame community).

now can you show me something thats none of the above?
I really don't understand your point, but still the 'garish' version looks so much better :D

oswald
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Post by oswald » Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:23 am

RocketRanger wrote:I had a second hand CPC first (and yes I did ask for a Spectrum)
now I understand your dull color argument. it would have been weird if the c64 was your first machine. on the c64 side its the garish colors argument is the winning one you see.

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Post by oswald » Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:33 am

Gryzor wrote:I really don't understand your point, but still the 'garish' version looks so much better :D
you know when you watch TV all the time with contrast and color set to the max then the default settings will seem like dull colors. same goes to speccy / cpc users looking at c64.

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Gryzor
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Post by Gryzor » Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:38 am

oswald wrote:
Gryzor wrote:I really don't understand your point, but still the 'garish' version looks so much better :D
you know when you watch TV all the time with contrast and color set to the max then the default settings will seem like dull colors. same goes to speccy / cpc users looking at c64.

Ah, I see now. Yes, I understand what you're saying; perception is an art of comparison. Even so, and even if the CPC colours are garish (which I don't think they are, especially with sane monitor settings), the c64 colours are certainly dull - I mean, it's the dullest palette I've ever seen on an electronics machine, not only compared to the CPC...

oswald
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Post by oswald » Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:49 am

well for me the c64 has the best 16 color palette possible in the known universe. while cpc/speccy colors are horridly bleeding :) and now I think its time to stop arguing about tastes.

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Post by NorthWay » Tue Jul 31, 2007 7:54 pm

RocketRanger wrote:
oswald wrote:I have never heard this dull statement outside this forum except spectrum fans.
I used to think they were quite dull and I owned a C64. The pallette was ok for earthy gradients or shades of gray, but rarely looked good for the bright cartoony games popular in the 90's
100% seriously: Have you played Delta on a proper machine with a good old-fashioned CRT display (mine's a 1701(2?))? Does it look washed and dull, especially the attract mode?

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ivarf
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Post by ivarf » Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:25 am

Image
Image

Yep, the first image looks like a typical C64-image ande the second looks like a much better Amstrad CPC RGB-image. Does it look like the second image on C64-monitors? If so, very nice :)

NorthWay
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Post by NorthWay » Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:09 pm

ivarf wrote:Does it look like the second image on C64-monitors? If so, very nice :)
Seeing as pictures don't transfer colours properly or evenly, can someone set up a 1701 and a pc with these two pictures side by side and take a picture so we at least can see the _relative_ difference?

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Gryzor
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Post by Gryzor » Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:16 pm

Well, here's the question I've always been wondering: how do emulators translate colours? I mean, I've seen different CPC emulators and the Blue screen is different from each to the next... So?

That said, the first is definitely a palette, while the second looks more CPC-ish...

oswald
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Post by oswald » Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:36 pm

NorthWay wrote:
ivarf wrote:Does it look like the second image on C64-monitors? If so, very nice :)
Seeing as pictures don't transfer colours properly or evenly, can someone set up a 1701 and a pc with these two pictures side by side and take a picture so we at least can see the _relative_ difference?

no you cant, as thats even affected by display type & brand & display settings.

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paranoid marvin
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Post by paranoid marvin » Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:38 pm

Well , I've got to say that C64 (winvice) and Speccy (speculator) emulators both make the games look like they did back in the day - mind you , it's probably 15 years since I last played on an original machine
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Mr Mash
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Post by Mr Mash » Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:19 pm

Likewise, Winape does a fair representation of the CPC (according to my memory only, no other 'proof').

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Gryzor
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Post by Gryzor » Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:34 am

Well, I still power up my CPC(s) from time to time and, to be frank, I don't know which emulator is more 'correct'. But if you put them side-by-side, there *is* a difference!

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TMR
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Post by TMR » Thu Aug 02, 2007 4:36 am

Gryzor wrote:Well, here's the question I've always been wondering: how do emulators translate colours? I mean, I've seen different CPC emulators and the Blue screen is different from each to the next... So?
Depends on the emulator and the person doing it; all of the earliest ones just used a rough approximation of the colours (which is why C64S or the earliest Spectrum emulators look totally wrong next to a real machine), others have used a capture card and a real machine to get something to work with (some C64 palettes work that way and i believe Atari 800Win Plus has one palette worked out that way) and the rest use calculations - all three techniques are open to some variation, capture cards vary, calculations for how analog hardware handles stuff can be disputed and outright guessing depends on the person doing said guessing. =-)

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