Manhunt 2 fails to pass the BBFC...

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Opa-Opa
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Manhunt 2 fails to pass the BBFC...

Post by Opa-Opa » Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:03 pm

So manhunt won't make it to the UK in it's present form because the BBFC have decided we are not allowed to play games that involve the player killing people in such a violent way without remorse...

What do you lot think..? Should we be able to play the game as the publishers/coders intended or are we a bunch of weak minded nutters more likey to go out and commit murder because our tiny minds can't seperate right from wrong / fact from fiction etc etc...

I have to admit to being disappointed, I was one of the people who enjoyed (if thats the right word) the first game. It was dark, dirty and bloody nasty in places, like the film hostel, it was sick in places but it is still entertainment and I was looking foward to the next game...

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Post by Dudley » Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:08 pm

I hated the first game but this is very disturbing. Outright banning should not be occurring ever.
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Post by paranoid marvin » Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:10 pm

So it's ok to see a real person have their eye blowtorched , but not ok to see some pixels strangled?
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Post by P-Head » Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:13 pm

Evidently. I'm really pissed off with this. Extremely. Censorship at this level is censored* disgusting.

*fizzucking

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Post by Opa-Opa » Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:27 pm

Dudley wrote:I hated the first game but this is very disturbing. Outright banning should not be occurring ever.
What did you hate about it Dudley..?

I found the subject matter a bit hard to "enjoy" (theres that word again..) but I really liked the game. I didn't like it at first though. I bought it on release, played it a couple of times then put it back on the shelf for a year.. I went back to it and really enjoyed (still not finished it yet though) playing through it this time.
P-head wrote: Evidently. I'm really pissed off with this. Extremely. Censorship at this level is censored* disgusting.
I think Dudley is right with "disturbing".
Disgusting is when they force changes, disturbing is seeing them do what they like and knowing we can't do anything about it..

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Post by paranoid marvin » Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:30 pm

Well I really enjoyed the first one - one o the only games to give real 'rewards' for good stealth play with the 3 levels of execution
Very silly game , not to be taken seriously (or so I thought)
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Post by FatTrucker » Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:33 pm

I think people are mistaking the reasons this was knocked back.

The actual depictions of the violence were not in and of themselves the reason it was denied.
The problem is that the game contains such gratuitous and graphic violence without context.
It is simply murder for murders sake and the whole premise of the game is to experiment with different ways of killing people for no apparent reason.

So effectively if you imagine the film Hostel being released with all the scenes cut out except for the ones in the torture rooms, then this is basically how they have classified Manhunt 2. Its gratuitous violence for its own sake.

Its also worth mentioning that the BBFC are actually very modern in their approach to censorship and this is only the second game ever to be denied a classification. It doesn't appear to have been done with any kind of agenda in mind, its simply that the game breaches the BBFC's rules for classification.

I actually agree with it in this case because these types of games do nothing for the games industry or gamers. They aren't particularly good and they are designed and marketed specifically to make sales on the back of media hysteria, rather than gaming excellence and I think the less of that we have in the industry the better. Who wants developers deciding that its more profitable to knock out something quick and controversial than sinking more time and cash into something that will actually sell because its good.

Perhaps this will actually be a kick up the arse for this kind of game and devs producing these kind of titles will put a little more effort in.

In an arena where gamers are constantly spitting feathers because games aren't taken seriously in mainstream circles and wanting games to feature more mature and advanced content, is there really still a place for this kind of sensationalist, lowest common denominator, cynical brand of games development?.

It certainly does nothing to promote games as the viable adult medium that we all want them to be, so really gamers should be more f**ked off at people that peddle these titles and help to keep the industry firmly in its immature pigeonhole than at the BBFC who knocked it back because they recognised it for exactly what it was.
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Post by forestville » Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:49 pm

I will be buying it on holiday in Spain, the bbfc have made a mistake banning manhunt 2 it is just a bucket of water thrown in the ocean, cos gamers will just import it from europe

it is just a game with a stealth element
if people don't like it leave it, simple as that the same goes for tv and movies if you find something offensive turn it off
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Post by Opa-Opa » Tue Jun 19, 2007 12:59 pm

FatTrucker wrote:I think people are mistaking the reasons this was knocked back.

The actual depictions of the violence were not in and of themselves the reason it was denied.
The problem is that the game contains such gratuitous and graphic violence without context.
It is simply murder for murders sake and the whole premise of the game is to experiment with different ways of killing people.
The game has a story, just as the first one did. In the first game you didn't kill for the sake of it, you killed because if you didn't you would BE killed.. you killed for survival...

As for just being "something quick and controversial " and "Perhaps this will actually be a kick up the arse for this kind of game and devs producing these kind of titles will put a little more effort in."

From what I have read in GamesTM and on line the game is very well made, contains improvements and inovations over the last one and the Wii version has made great use of the Wiimote, rather than just tacking a poor "light gun" style aiming system on it and claiming it is using the Wii's "unique" control system.

I don't agree with FatTrucker at all on this one, it sounds a lot to me as if you haven't played it for yourself, I maybe wrong but it sounds more like you have belived all the press and hype and Tabloid scare tactics to "ban this filth".. Censorship is wrong, we have the right to choose.

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Post by forestville » Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:07 pm

those games are not as bad as the tabloids make it out to be, censorship is wrong we all have a right to make our own choice of what to play or watch
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Post by SirClive » Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:19 pm

I half agree with FatTrucker. Just because it is a 'game' doesn't mean you should be able to do anything at all. If it was a game where (and I know this is taking it to an extreme) you had to fiddle with kiddies, because if you didn't you would get killed would that be acceptable?

Censorship is always worrying (especially with our current government), but some companies (like Rockstar*) are looking for the most controversy they can get away with and it look like this time the gamble didn't pay off.

*The whole Bully thing pissed me off, if they had called the game Bullworth they wouldn't have had the problems they did have and they knew it. But they forced through for the publicity and then chose a stupid name for effect.
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Post by Dudley » Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:34 pm

Opa-Opa wrote:
Dudley wrote:I hated the first game but this is very disturbing. Outright banning should not be occurring ever.
What did you hate about it Dudley..?

I found the subject matter a bit hard to "enjoy" (theres that word again..) but I really liked the game. I didn't like it at first though. I bought it on release, played it a couple of times then put it back on the shelf for a year.. I went back to it and really enjoyed (still not finished it yet though) playing through it this time.
I felt that the subject matter was all it had and it hid bland, repetitive gameplay that couldn't have sold itself any other way.

Hate might be too strong, I "blah" it.

I half agree with FatTrucker. Just because it is a 'game' doesn't mean you should be able to do anything at all. If it was a game where (and I know this is taking it to an extreme) you had to fiddle with kiddies, because if you didn't you would get killed would that be acceptable?
Yes. Why not? No-one was hurt making it. If you ban that game you'd have to ban any game depicting illegal activity as you've just admitted that playing the game makes people want to do things in reality. Real life kiddie porn should be banned because of how it has to be made, not what it is. Cartoons of said are not illegal, nor should they be.
The problem is that the game contains such gratuitous and graphic violence without context.
It is simply murder for murders sake and the whole premise of the game is to experiment with different ways of killing people.
So? That's not a problem, that's a reason to restrict, not censor.

Why do they thing they can view it without going crazy and I can't?
In real life of course, that game would be killed off by good old fashioned capitialism.
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Post by DanDare » Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:36 pm

FatTrucker wrote:The actual depictions of the violence were not in and of themselves the reason it was denied.
The problem is that the game contains such gratuitous and graphic violence without context.
It is simply murder for murders sake and the whole premise of the game is to experiment with different ways of killing people for no apparent reason.
You could argue the unbanned Postal 2 was the same thing. A game in which you can break into someones house, kill one of the occupants and make the other beg for her life while you urinate on her?

I agree to an extent with Dudley. Manhunt 2 should be released with all the appropriate warnings to allow us to make an informed decision as to whether to purchase it.
I actually agree with it in this case because these types of games do nothing for the games industry or gamers. They aren't particularly good and they are designed and marketed specifically to make sales on the back of media hysteria, rather than gaming excellence and I think the less of that we have in the industry the better. Who wants developers deciding that its more profitable to knock out something quick and controversial than sinking more time and cash into something that will actually sell because its good.
Manhunt 2 has scored highly in at least one review I have seen. The rest of your statement is suspect.

Developers and publishers will not make a game just because you want it. There must be a clear and strong demand, a sign that it will sell well. Just think how much money it goes into making a computer game. It's too big an industry these days to go and shoot for pot luck. Good games don't always make good-selling games (Terra Nova is one example that pops to mind).

I'm not inside the industry so I don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me if a group of developers got together and asked themselves: "What does our audience want?" Then they try and build a game around that.

In this case it is something of a horror/thriller. An adult game by a company who have made previous adult games.

I am not saying developers should just examine the charts and then clone it - clearly we do need experimentation to prevent the industry from becoming stagnent.

I actually remember Dave Perry (of Shiney) saying that he expected the video gaming industry to crash as graphics became more realistic. He theorised that once we hit a certain point of graphical excellence, that then developers would be forced to be more imaginative.

Of course, all this is a side argument to the main point that what is a seemingly good game has been banned. I'd not have bought Manhunt 2, but I do find it sad when the decision to purchase it is taken out of my hands.

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Post by Dudley » Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:39 pm

Personally I don't care whether it's a good or bad game, it's the precedent. This might even be the first time a game has ever recieved an outright ban.

I also don't care it does nothing for the image of the industry, neither does any of Rob Zombie's films for the movie industry. There's room for all types of art and trying to control which types enter a free market is just plain wrong.

If something illegal was done in its creation, that's fine but that's not the case here and I'm tempted to pay to import it just to prove the point.
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Post by DanDare » Tue Jun 19, 2007 1:40 pm

Dudley wrote:Personally I don't care whether it's a good or bad game, it's the precedent. This might even be the first time a game has ever recieved an outright ban.

I also don't care it does nothing for the image of the industry, neither does any of Rob Zombie's films for the movie industry. There's room for all types of art and trying to control which types enter a free market is just plain wrong.

If something illegal was done in its creation, that's fine but that's not the case here and I'm tempted to pay to import it just to prove the point.
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