The Google Stadia

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Re: The Google Stadia

Post by Antiriad2097 » Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:21 pm

And all of these reasons are why price is such a big factor. It makes the games a disposable item, very different from what we're used to. At a low enough price point, I wouldn't be too concerned about the library going down and taking my games with it. Just as I don't worry about something being removed from Netflix, so I don't worry about the games, not at that price point.

Make the investment significant, and it's a different ballgame.

I can't see any offline download options for the service happening. It brings in too many factors they'd need to manage, never mind the fact that most devices capable of streaming games probably don't have the grunt to run them locally. Keep it controlled on their system.

It isn't a terrible idea, but I wouldn't necessarily want it as my only option. As long as we have Steam, GoG etc keeping me with a supply of games I can keep, I'm fine with it.
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Re: The Google Stadia

Post by merman » Fri Mar 22, 2019 1:29 pm

NickThorpe wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:07 am
The Digital Foundry analysis doesn't convince me that Google has solved the inherent problems of streaming - and that's before we even get into the question of whether streaming is at all desirable. The lag figures they're talking about suggest a delay of about ten frames in a 60fps game, and that's in the highly controlled environment Google was showing it off in. The 25Mbit connection requirement is going to be a struggle too, as will data caps.

But then, there's what streaming means in terms of a cultural change for gaming. Preservation efforts have come primarily from users rather than companies - whether that's people dumping ROMs or users producing patches to keep old PC games running on modern hardware. A streaming service means that the player never gets anywhere near a copy of the code, and while it'd be lovely to think that Google could preserve these games properly, the recent Myspace music loss incident shows that it's a bad idea to trust so much data to a single entity. In particular, I dread to think what will happen to licensed games - when the distribution contract ends, that game will be pulled from servers like current digital releases are, but with no local copies this effectively means that the game disappears forever. A game like Marvel vs Capcom 2, which became a long-lived staple of the tournament fighting scene, could never have the same sort of lifespan. And while there wouldn't be a reason for most games to leave the service, there's no reason for most shows to leave Netflix but they still do.

Even if you've somehow ended up on this forum but have no interest in playing older games, there are reasons to be wary. What happens if you love a Stadia game and want to mod it? Well tough luck buddy, the code's on Google's server and you're not getting access to it. Remember when Nintendo wanted to stop the Super Smash Bros Melee stream at Evo, and even shut down the tournament itself? A streaming service makes it much easier for a company to exercise that sort of control. When a dispute erupted between Blizzard and the Korean e-Sports Association over StarCraft II broadcasting rights, KeSPA and its players continued to play the original game - with a streaming service, Blizzard could have just shut that original game down.

There are some exciting aspects to game streaming - remote updating, near instant start-up times, and possibly a solution to cheating in competitive online games. It should definitely be an option for people. But I feel that there are too many issues with it for me to really want to endorse it over the existing model of local hardware/software ownership, and I would hope to see as few exclusives as possible on Stadia because of those concerns.
Well put, Nick.

The big risks are losing content and the payment method for developers.
Streaming does not pay well for musicians and I can't see Google coming up with a better structure for gaming.

I would also be worried about exclusives, unless they were timed.
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Re: The Google Stadia

Post by kiwimike » Fri Mar 22, 2019 6:28 pm

The more things head this way, the more retro I will get tbh. Not that they will care, they aren't aiming it at me!

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Re: The Google Stadia

Post by learnedrobb » Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:26 am

I just don't like the idea of games as a service. I pay for a game, I should be able to play it whenever I want. Not only until the publisher decides I should be playing the sequel, or the latest "big thing". Because that is what will happen.
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Re: The Google Stadia

Post by Antiriad2097 » Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:20 am

learnedrobb wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:26 am
I just don't like the idea of games as a service. I pay for a game, I should be able to play it whenever I want.
Even when you went to Blockbuster (other game rental services may have been available) and rented it?

This is what I keep thinking.

We're locked onto the idea of paying for a game, rather than paying a subscription to a game rental service.

You aren't paying to play a game. You're paying for access to the available games.

At least that's how I expect it to be. Perhaps it'll be a nominal fee to play a specific title for so long?

But we can count out owning games on the service I think.
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Re: The Google Stadia

Post by ulrich7ad » Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:27 pm

Was on about this with a friend and I listed why I wasn't interested in great detail. He nodded, smiled and simply said, "if this streamed the next assassin's creed a month early you would be all over it". And he"s right😂 it's the games that will sell it, as ever.

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Re: The Google Stadia

Post by Matt_B » Sun Mar 31, 2019 4:50 pm

ulrich7ad wrote:
Sat Mar 30, 2019 2:27 pm
Was on about this with a friend and I listed why I wasn't interested in great detail. He nodded, smiled and simply said, "if this streamed the next assassin's creed a month early you would be all over it". And he"s right😂 it's the games that will sell it, as ever.
Bear in mind that you'd be all over a game that's probably a bit laggy and has compressed video in the optimal experience and is potentially dropping out all the time in a sub-optimal one.

Also, the third party exclusive isn't what it used to be as a selling point and the PC games stores that are trying to secure timed exclusives over GOG and Steam are generally facing a bit of a backlash for doing so; have a read about Phoenix Point and Metro: Exodus on the Epic Store, for instance. Throw in the aforementioned downsides of streaming a single-player game, or even multi-player ones that aren't optimized for a streaming platform, and I'd think that it's going to take more than that.

I'd still think that online multi-player is their best bet for delivering something special, because Google has servers pretty much everywhere and there will surely be ways of leveraging that.

Alternatively, if they can offer a big library for a relatively small fee, and you can still buy all the games - including on physical media for those inclined that way - if you decide that they're keepers, it might still work.

I'd also consider that Google are notorious for starting lots of different services and quietly abandoning all but the most successful ones after a couple of years, so it could go that way too.

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Re: The Google Stadia

Post by learnedrobb » Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:02 pm

Antiriad2097 wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:20 am
learnedrobb wrote:
Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:26 am
I just don't like the idea of games as a service. I pay for a game, I should be able to play it whenever I want.
Even when you went to Blockbuster (other game rental services may have been available) and rented it?

This is what I keep thinking.

We're locked onto the idea of paying for a game, rather than paying a subscription to a game rental service.

You aren't paying to play a game. You're paying for access to the available games.

At least that's how I expect it to be. Perhaps it'll be a nominal fee to play a specific title for so long?

But we can count out owning games on the service I think.
For me, the difference is I knew that I only rented the game for however long the rental period was. I knew this upfront. With a "games as a service" model a la Stadia, I don't. A game might be playable for years. It might get pulled after 6 months. Unless it is specified clearly, upfront, then I'm just not interested.
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Re: The Google Stadia

Post by Antiriad2097 » Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:42 pm

You do know. You pay a month's sub, you play for a month. Ok, you might get the odd one pulled part way through, but I'd assume just as with Netflix that there'd be some indication that things were in their final period. Don't think of it as long term, think of the service as immediate, what you want to play right now, not in 6 months or 6 years.
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Re: The Google Stadia

Post by Matt_B » Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:47 am

I'd think that we're probably getting a bit too worried about content coming and going in the style of Netflix. That's the way it is because TV content has long been produced on a model where it's licensed for a limited period for broadcast after which it can then be sold on to someone else. It's nigh impossible to get the rights to anything in perpetuity in such a system unless you make it yourself, which is what Netflix are now doing for much of their content.

Most games aren't made with that model in mind, and once they're live on GoG or Steam they're pretty much there indefinitely, bar the odd case usually where there's content licensed from a film or TV show under similar terms to the above, and even then it only usually gets pulled if and when the licence changes hands. I'd be fairly confident that Stadia would work similarly.

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Re: The Google Stadia

Post by merman » Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:03 pm

Microsoft's eBook store is to close, all users will lose every eBook they "purchased":

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-47810367


Nope, I am not going fully digital. Even if it costs more.
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Re: The Google Stadia

Post by Antiriad2097 » Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:19 pm

All users who made purchases are getting a refund, so not a total loss there.

It was always pretty easy in the past to strip DRM from ebooks too, I used to do it all the time to read them on incompatible devices, with the DRM stripped they're easy to convert to other formats.
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Re: The Google Stadia

Post by Matt_B » Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:52 pm

merman wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:03 pm
Microsoft's eBook store is to close, all users will lose every eBook they "purchased":

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-47810367


Nope, I am not going fully digital. Even if it costs more.
Rather like with the death of G4WL, I'd suspect that it's mostly a case of an almost total lack of market penetration. The fact that they'll be refunding all purchases suggests that there weren't a lot of them.

I'd think the takeaway from that is to get your eBooks from somewhere a bit more reputable in that area, like Amazon or Apple.

So far as Google Stadia goes, there's a distinct chance that it won't gain much market penetration and will get quietly culled like a lot of other Google products have been over the years. However, I'd think that you'd be pretty safe with any games you've bought on the Play Store from them.

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Re: The Google Stadia

Post by merman » Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:38 am

Microsoft have CHOSEN to refund users.
Given Google's past behaviour I can't see them doing the same.
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Re: The Google Stadia

Post by kebabinho » Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:59 am

a bit late to the conversation but hasn't the same thing happened to the Microsoft books store.

They are closing from 2nd april and no books you have 'purchased' will be available after July 2019

i get the impression that there weren't many users of the service but the principal is still the same.

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