Retro consoles on a 4ktv

Discuss and discover all the great games of yesteryear!

Moderators: mknott, NickThorpe, Darran@Retro Gamer, MMohammed, lcarlson

User avatar
David
Posts: 3861
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:05 am

Retro consoles on a 4ktv

Post by David » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:56 am

Right this has probably been asked a billion times but seeing as I haven't been on here for about a year here goes.

I've not been into gaming for the past year or so due to various reasons but got the bug again.

If I buy a retro console again and my TV doesn't have a scart socket (only the av connections red white yellow etc) just how bad is it going to look?

Not going to have enough time to play to consider the expense of fancy convertors etc


Enlighten me wise RGers
Last edited by David on Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
RetroBob
Posts: 3158
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:48 pm

Re: Retro consoles on a 4ktv

Post by RetroBob » Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:18 am

It's going to look censored through RF, end of story. Have you considered getting one of the Mini consoles - your get a decent amount of games and the good ones have HDMI. The Nintendo ones are good, pretty sure there is a C64 one, others too. Probably avoid the PlayStation one and the Mega Drive one (a better MD one is in the works though).
Xbox Live: RetroBob

User avatar
David
Posts: 3861
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:05 am

Re: Retro consoles on a 4ktv

Post by David » Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:20 am

That's a good shout actually cheers

User avatar
Antiriad2097
Posts: 26635
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:48 pm
Location: http://s11.zetaboards.com/RetroLeague/
Contact:

Re: Retro consoles on a 4ktv

Post by Antiriad2097 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:10 am

RetroBob wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:18 am
It's going to look censored through RF, end of story.
RF may not work at all. With the switch off of analogue signals, many modern TVs don't have analogue tuners, only digital, so the frequency range or decoding or something is different. In the dual signal period, TVs used to have analogue and digital options for tuning. That doesn't seem to be the case now.

Some old threads on retro systems on HDTV:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=55005
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=47041
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=46340
http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2014/11/05/pret ... es-new-tvs
The Retro League - Where skill isn't an obstacle
Retrocanteen, home of the unfairly banned
Tom_Baker wrote:I just finished watching a film about Stockholm syndrome. It started out terrible but by the end I really liked it.

User avatar
David
Posts: 3861
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:05 am

Re: Retro consoles on a 4ktv

Post by David » Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:30 am

I wouldn't be using rf the TV has component inputs

Lucretius83
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:38 am

Re: Retro consoles on a 4ktv

Post by Lucretius83 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:45 am

hey , retrogamer here too

if your tv has the typical connectors on the back better use component video cable for your consoles

the one with 5 cables is close to S-video , is separated in 2 parts : 2 connectors for audio red white and 3 connectors for video red blue green composite is worse (typically the cables that came with the original console yellow white red)

there are a lot of sites manufacturing a specific model for your consoles since retrogaming has risen in recent years

even my 55" lg hdtv has composite

pratty
Posts: 5405
Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:13 pm

Re: Retro consoles on a 4ktv

Post by pratty » Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:48 am

David wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:30 am
I wouldn't be using rf the TV has component inputs
Component or composite?

The Red/Yellow/White you described sounds like composite. What Lucretius described is component and is the superior of the two.

But crucially it also depends on the cable you have and the system, which is what I think Antiriad is getting at, you only have one piece of the puzzle so far. Some systems came only came with the RF cable, with the composite cables and scart cables being available seperately.

Chances are a retro system is going to look pretty rough on a brand new 4K TV through composite, but TVs, systems and games are different so results can vary.

A HDMI supporting device such as the NES or SNES Mini would probably be your safest bet picture-wise, but then you're limited by the games you can play. Ultimately it probably comes down to how much you're willing to spend.
Pratty's trade list, updated (May 2019)!
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=54823

User avatar
Antiriad2097
Posts: 26635
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:48 pm
Location: http://s11.zetaboards.com/RetroLeague/
Contact:

Re: Retro consoles on a 4ktv

Post by Antiriad2097 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:58 am

Some systems don't have anything except RF by default. I've used an old external RF/Composite/S-Video to VGA box in the past to display games on a monitor. It was supposed to be to allow you to watch video from VHS or whatever on a monitor, and switch the feed between PC and video. Ancient tech, but it worked. Probably had some lag in it if you bothered to play a game it was noticeable in though.
The Retro League - Where skill isn't an obstacle
Retrocanteen, home of the unfairly banned
Tom_Baker wrote:I just finished watching a film about Stockholm syndrome. It started out terrible but by the end I really liked it.

Lucretius83
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:38 am

Re: Retro consoles on a 4ktv

Post by Lucretius83 » Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:01 pm

using hdmi would be a bad idea you can see the single pixels on the game graphics that way, the composite is way better for the colors and thing like that

i would use an hdmi if you are using emulators tough through the pc and emulate the scanlines and typical look using them

User avatar
Matt_B
Posts: 5258
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:30 am
Location: 5 minutes from the beach, 30 seconds from the pub

Re: Retro consoles on a 4ktv

Post by Matt_B » Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:24 pm

What it comes down to is that old consoles are typically designed to output a 240p signal to a CRT display that not only has a one on one correspondence to the scanlines that are output, but also displays its pixels as fuzzy blobs rather than sharp solid blocks. This does a good job of smoothing out sharp edges, jagged lines, etc. and allows good pixel art to suggest colours and shapes that would be beyond the limitations of the platform.

Stick that through a 4K display though and everything comes out as 9x9 pixel blocks. If you could get a digital output, via HDMI or similar, it'll be far more accurate than an old CRT but that'll also show all those things that the CRT kept hidden from you and the effect is never quite as good as it could be. Using a component or RGB SCART cable will also keep the colours pretty accurate, but you've got the same limitation. Going down to composite output adds noise to the signal, but it's generally of the wrong kind so you'll see solid blocks but of shifting colours. RF does much the same but with far worse interference.

Whatever you choose, don't expect to get the look you remember; the only way that's going to happen is if you can keep an old CRT set on hand or maybe you could run emulators that use filters to re-create the effects of a CRT.

User avatar
outdated_gamer
Posts: 2599
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 12:14 pm

Re: Retro consoles on a 4ktv

Post by outdated_gamer » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:39 pm

Getting one of those "classic" systems or a decently powered PC loaded with emulators is the best bet for 4K retro console gaming imo.

The pre-Xbox 360 consoles were all designed to output on SD CRTs and the "super sharp" output mods are "hit and miss" since the whole point was to have a bit blurry/fuzzy look to hide the jaggies which only CRTs could provide.

User avatar
Pacific
Posts: 147
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 8:26 am

Re: Retro consoles on a 4ktv

Post by Pacific » Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:38 am

Something else that hasn't been mentioned in this thread yet, and is something that by all accounts marries the old retro with use of new technology, is the Nintendo and Sega machines from Analogue (https://www.analogue.co/super-nt/)

They're a bit pricey compared to the cheapo plug-in emulation boxes, but they are apparently reverse-engineered chipsets (so run off the original architecture rather than emulation) and will give the most faithful reproduction possible on a modern TV. Currently on the SNES one for sale but the MD/Genesis is out later this year.

Might be a good option for anyone who doesn't want to have a Sony Triniton taking up 1/4 of their room space and keeping old hardware going, but want to use their collection of old games.

User avatar
Antiriad2097
Posts: 26635
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2005 2:48 pm
Location: http://s11.zetaboards.com/RetroLeague/
Contact:

Re: Retro consoles on a 4ktv

Post by Antiriad2097 » Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:00 pm

It says they're FPGA systems, so just hardware emulation instead of software emulation.
The Retro League - Where skill isn't an obstacle
Retrocanteen, home of the unfairly banned
Tom_Baker wrote:I just finished watching a film about Stockholm syndrome. It started out terrible but by the end I really liked it.

User avatar
Pacific
Posts: 147
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 8:26 am

Re: Retro consoles on a 4ktv

Post by Pacific » Sun Jan 27, 2019 6:05 pm

Yes - but from the sounds of things it really does make a difference to the responsiveness of games and help to display on 1080

Interesting write up here:
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/analo ... 0-6456626/

I'm prob not going to the get the SNES version as I've found Nintendo's own Mini SNES is excellent, but with lack of an equivalent from Sega the forthcoming Megadrive version looks pretty good for playing old Sega carts.

User avatar
David
Posts: 3861
Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:05 am

Re: Retro consoles on a 4ktv

Post by David » Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:13 am

Just discovered that my daughters barely used laptop has an hdmI on the back so going to just get some emulators and try that hooked up to the telly to see how it looks

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest