Backwards Compatability

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pratty
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Re: Backwards Compatability

Post by pratty » Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:37 pm

GAZBEROTTEN wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:44 am
There are Xbox 360 indie games that are available on digital download. These titles, because they are available in digital download, could then be amended or have slight amendments made to the code so they could run on the Xbox One. This would then mean that those who owned the indie game from Xbox 360 could play it on their Xbox One and those on Xbox One could also purchase this. A lot of Xbox 360 indie games would still appeal to the newer generation of Xbox One players and could still make money. With indie games being a big thing nowadays its wouldn't be to hard to promote some of the best Xbox 360 indie games to people and still allow developers to sell existing and new indie titles which would also encourage more indie games to be produced.
I look after my old hardware as well but when you have a system clearly capable of playing older games and it not being used to its full potential then it limits the number of games available on that system which isn't good for anyone including the retro gamer who happens to be a fan and longtime supporter of that platform.

I do wonder how many people from Xbox 360 have not upgraded to the Xbox One. It does show though that Microsoft needs to be finding ways to get the Xbox 360 fanbase to jump to Xbox One and with Sony beating there competitor Microsoft in console sales, Microsoft needs to look further into issues like BC on the Xbox One and see if they can squeeze in a few more games to support. Granted more games get supported each month but if that amount rose more people from Xbox 360 would think you know what I could use a new system and some new games and if I get bored I can play my Xbox 360 ones too.
That would bring anyone over but sadly it simply isn't being done.
I think tying online purchases to an account that carries over to the next system would be great for the consumer, but to reasonably expect such a thing or not you have to look at the issue a little deeper. What will the next console be like? Will it have the necessary hardware to ensure the old game is still playable, e.g. the necessary controller functions, online infrastructure etc?

If the old game is to be re-sold to new gamers the division of the revenue between Microsoft and the developer, will they come to terms? A game deal allowing a game to appear on the 360 may not apply to the XBox One, and any exclusivity deal may have expired, could Sony or Nintendo make them a better offer to bring it over to their system exclusivly? Does the developer even still exist to OK it's appearance and sale on the XBox One or any system?

And of course with the re-sale of games you're straying furthere from ther concept of backwards compatibilty towards outright ports, which draws the usual "why pay again?" complaints, as well as the risk of market saturation.

I just looked up how many games 360 games are playable on the One, and according to Wikipedia it's 506 out of 2101, and roughly half of them seem to be XBLA games. That's nearly a quater of all the 360 games, I don't think that's bad considering the amount of potential hoops that may need to be jumped through. It doesn't seem to be enough for you but I think in order to fairly judge Microsoft on this we'd need a better idea of what it takes to bring all this about.

Additionally I'm still not convinced people are opting for PS4s over XBox Ones because the BC isn't up to scratch, I still think the new games are the main driver of a console's success when it comes to the game library.
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GAZBEROTTEN
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Re: Backwards Compatability

Post by GAZBEROTTEN » Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:49 pm

pratty wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:37 pm
GAZBEROTTEN wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:44 am
There are Xbox 360 indie games that are available on digital download. These titles, because they are available in digital download, could then be amended or have slight amendments made to the code so they could run on the Xbox One. This would then mean that those who owned the indie game from Xbox 360 could play it on their Xbox One and those on Xbox One could also purchase this. A lot of Xbox 360 indie games would still appeal to the newer generation of Xbox One players and could still make money. With indie games being a big thing nowadays its wouldn't be to hard to promote some of the best Xbox 360 indie games to people and still allow developers to sell existing and new indie titles which would also encourage more indie games to be produced.
I look after my old hardware as well but when you have a system clearly capable of playing older games and it not being used to its full potential then it limits the number of games available on that system which isn't good for anyone including the retro gamer who happens to be a fan and longtime supporter of that platform.

I do wonder how many people from Xbox 360 have not upgraded to the Xbox One. It does show though that Microsoft needs to be finding ways to get the Xbox 360 fanbase to jump to Xbox One and with Sony beating there competitor Microsoft in console sales, Microsoft needs to look further into issues like BC on the Xbox One and see if they can squeeze in a few more games to support. Granted more games get supported each month but if that amount rose more people from Xbox 360 would think you know what I could use a new system and some new games and if I get bored I can play my Xbox 360 ones too.
That would bring anyone over but sadly it simply isn't being done.
I think tying online purchases to an account that carries over to the next system would be great for the consumer, but to reasonably expect such a thing or not you have to look at the issue a little deeper. What will the next console be like? Will it have the necessary hardware to ensure the old game is still playable, e.g. the necessary controller functions, online infrastructure etc?

If the old game is to be re-sold to new gamers the division of the revenue between Microsoft and the developer, will they come to terms? A game deal allowing a game to appear on the 360 may not apply to the XBox One, and any exclusivity deal may have expired, could Sony or Nintendo make them a better offer to bring it over to their system exclusivly? Does the developer even still exist to OK it's appearance and sale on the XBox One or any system?

And of course with the re-sale of games you're straying furthere from ther concept of backwards compatibilty towards outright ports, which draws the usual "why pay again?" complaints, as well as the risk of market saturation.

I just looked up how many games 360 games are playable on the One, and according to Wikipedia it's 506 out of 2101, and roughly half of them seem to be XBLA games. That's nearly a quater of all the 360 games, I don't think that's bad considering the amount of potential hoops that may need to be jumped through. It doesn't seem to be enough for you but I think in order to fairly judge Microsoft on this we'd need a better idea of what it takes to bring all this about.

Additionally I'm still not convinced people are opting for PS4s over XBox Ones because the BC isn't up to scratch, I still think the new games are the main driver of a console's success when it comes to the game library.
Dead Rising games were exclusive to the Xbox brand for example Dead Rising 1,Case West and Case Zero are still Xbox 360 exclusive. Both of the Dead Rising arcade titles are backwards compatible on Xbox One. This shows that Microsoft and developers can come to terms with each other. 506 games playable out of 2101 is way below 40 percent which isnt good figures for anyone including the newer generations of gamers.

The longer BC problems exist the more debates about it will appear over time even in the future and many generations which by that time you and i will either be in our pensioner era. Will be fun to see the future generations talk about the past though and what they think of backwards compatability.

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Re: Backwards Compatability

Post by kiwimike » Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:17 am

GAZBEROTTEN wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:44 am
I do wonder how many people from Xbox 360 have not upgraded to the Xbox One. It does show though that Microsoft needs to be finding ways to get the Xbox 360 fanbase to jump to Xbox One and with Sony beating there competitor Microsoft in console sales, Microsoft needs to look further into issues like BC on the Xbox One and see if they can squeeze in a few more games to support. Granted more games get supported each month but if that amount rose more people from Xbox 360 would think you know what I could use a new system and some new games and if I get bored I can play my Xbox 360 ones too.
That would bring anyone over but sadly it simply isn't being done.
[/quote]

I know heaps of people that haven't made the upgrade yet. I can't speak for everyone, but my reasons are: I was a bit iffy about a machine online non stop, requiring never ending updates! But, I've used a few PS4 and XB1 at peoples houses now and found it not as bad as my old fart mind thought it would be :lol:
The other reason has been simply nothing has absolutely stood out as a must buy, must upgrade just to play AAA title. A remake of Resident Evil 2 sounds good, Ultimate/Rare history compilation almost made me do it, seeing plenty of XB1 games around cheap now almost made me do it. Fortnite hasn't interested me :wink: I really don't know tbh. I know I am no longer the market demographic, so it's probably hard to know for a company how to push older gamers up. Perhaps a way would be the backwards compatibility combined with some sort of trade in deal- a really too good to turn down enticement, trade in the 360 on XB1. Those people will buy new games for a system they now have, rather than just play the 360 games they had already.

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Re: Backwards Compatability

Post by GAZBEROTTEN » Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:19 am

kiwimike wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:17 am
GAZBEROTTEN wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:44 am
I do wonder how many people from Xbox 360 have not upgraded to the Xbox One. It does show though that Microsoft needs to be finding ways to get the Xbox 360 fanbase to jump to Xbox One and with Sony beating there competitor Microsoft in console sales, Microsoft needs to look further into issues like BC on the Xbox One and see if they can squeeze in a few more games to support. Granted more games get supported each month but if that amount rose more people from Xbox 360 would think you know what I could use a new system and some new games and if I get bored I can play my Xbox 360 ones too.
That would bring anyone over but sadly it simply isn't being done.
I know heaps of people that haven't made the upgrade yet. I can't speak for everyone, but my reasons are: I was a bit iffy about a machine online non stop, requiring never ending updates! But, I've used a few PS4 and XB1 at peoples houses now and found it not as bad as my old fart mind thought it would be :lol:
The other reason has been simply nothing has absolutely stood out as a must buy, must upgrade just to play AAA title. A remake of Resident Evil 2 sounds good, Ultimate/Rare history compilation almost made me do it, seeing plenty of XB1 games around cheap now almost made me do it. Fortnite hasn't interested me :wink: I really don't know tbh. I know I am no longer the market demographic, so it's probably hard to know for a company how to push older gamers up. Perhaps a way would be the backwards compatibility combined with some sort of trade in deal- a really too good to turn down enticement, trade in the 360 on XB1. Those people will buy new games for a system they now have, rather than just play the 360 games they had already.
[/quote]

The problem with that is there are many new i.p's and indie games being released and the majority of them not all are to me either games that look like they were made in the 80's and even some which look like beta versions of similar games. This then gives the retro gamer a poor impression as to what indie games and new i.ps can really do. When you have most of the best Xbox 360 games not supported via backwards compatability along with the lower ammount of games than the PS4 this adds to the determent of those who retro game from getting an Xbox One.

The worst thing any retro gamer wants to see is a lack of a good ammount of AAA games and a bit to much faith and dependancy of indie games/ new i.ps then be told only a limited ammount of your last gen games will work. Then knowing you have lesser new games than the other system does just adds to the deterant of buying an Xbox One. Trade in deals could work if there were enough newer sequals to the majority of Xbox 360 franchises on Xbox One that were a significant improvement this is barely happening. Dont forget you also have spent hundreads if not thousands of pounds on your Xbox 360 titles most which are probably not supported on Xbox One either forcing you to rely on an old system when you have a newer system which doesnt look good at all.

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Re: Backwards Compatability

Post by GAZBEROTTEN » Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:59 am

Looks like the Playstation 4 can actually run PS2 games and has been able to for years. It is a system level feature which is good news for retro gamers however Sony has not enabled it yet. Game will run at 4 times the resolution as well. Excellent news here's the video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BovUfR7OfHk

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GarryG
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Re: Backwards Compatability

Post by GarryG » Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:58 pm

IMO it isn't backwards comparability unless you can stick the real media from the older console in and play it.
Buy-it-from-an-online-store backwards compatibility isn't compatibility at all,it's buy-it-from-an-online store!
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ALK
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Re: Backwards Compatability

Post by ALK » Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:20 pm

True, but I see that as an alternative. If Microsoft add a game you like to its program but the physical skyrockets in price on the second hand market and the digital's a fraction of that price, you always have another option to revisit that game on your XBONE.

The CODs have gone that way when added. Modern Warefare 2 used to be picked up for a few quid but when it got added to XBONE BC, it soon became something like £20+ in CeX. Hell, it was something like the 9th highest selling game in the month of August in the US. :lol:
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GarryG
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Re: Backwards Compatability

Post by GarryG » Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:39 pm

Don't get me wrong.I do see the point of the online-store based option. And do have some games for older systems, that I've bought this way.

But is it really a 'compatible' system?
I'd say my original 60Gb PS3 was (more or less) compatable with my PS2, e.g. I could put PS2 or PlayStation games in there and they would (mostly) work. The next PS3 I got suddenly couldn't do that, as they had removed the necessary hardware. Instead I could buy pseudo compatability through the store.

Not the same thing at all. I think 'compatible' is the wrong word here somehow, although I admit I don't really have a better one.
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pratty
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Re: Backwards Compatability

Post by pratty » Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:26 am

GarryG wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:39 pm
Don't get me wrong.I do see the point of the online-store based option. And do have some games for older systems, that I've bought this way.

But is it really a 'compatible' system?
I'd say my original 60Gb PS3 was (more or less) compatable with my PS2, e.g. I could put PS2 or PlayStation games in there and they would (mostly) work. The next PS3 I got suddenly couldn't do that, as they had removed the necessary hardware. Instead I could buy pseudo compatability through the store.

Not the same thing at all. I think 'compatible' is the wrong word here somehow, although I admit I don't really have a better one.
"Multi-generational"?

I agree that backwards compatability isn't the right term for online console stores, compatability implies object A will work with object B.
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GAZBEROTTEN
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Re: Backwards Compatability

Post by GAZBEROTTEN » Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:48 pm

GarryG wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:58 pm
IMO it isn't backwards comparability unless you can stick the real media from the older console in and play it.
Buy-it-from-an-online-store backwards compatibility isn't compatibility at all,it's buy-it-from-an-online store!
I am sure that if a console has a USB port Backwards Compatability could be done from a USB hard drive or flash drive which would be a good way to run the disc based games.
ALK wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:20 pm
True, but I see that as an alternative. If Microsoft add a game you like to its program but the physical skyrockets in price on the second hand market and the digital's a fraction of that price, you always have another option to revisit that game on your XBONE.

The CODs have gone that way when added. Modern Warefare 2 used to be picked up for a few quid but when it got added to XBONE BC, it soon became something like £20+ in CeX. Hell, it was something like the 9th highest selling game in the month of August in the US. :lol:
A lot of retro games have sold like that but for a disc based system no bc is offered for those discs. That is what lets done a lot of retro gamers of previous console generations especially with best selling games.
GarryG wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:39 pm
Don't get me wrong.I do see the point of the online-store based option. And do have some games for older systems, that I've bought this way.

But is it really a 'compatible' system?
I'd say my original 60Gb PS3 was (more or less) compatable with my PS2, e.g. I could put PS2 or PlayStation games in there and they would (mostly) work. The next PS3 I got suddenly couldn't do that, as they had removed the necessary hardware. Instead I could buy pseudo compatability through the store.

Not the same thing at all. I think 'compatible' is the wrong word here somehow, although I admit I don't really have a better one.
There are many way to get around that one which is stated above
pratty wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:26 am
GarryG wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:39 pm
Don't get me wrong.I do see the point of the online-store based option. And do have some games for older systems, that I've bought this way.

But is it really a 'compatible' system?
I'd say my original 60Gb PS3 was (more or less) compatable with my PS2, e.g. I could put PS2 or PlayStation games in there and they would (mostly) work. The next PS3 I got suddenly couldn't do that, as they had removed the necessary hardware. Instead I could buy pseudo compatability through the store.

Not the same thing at all. I think 'compatible' is the wrong word here somehow, although I admit I don't really have a better one.
"Multi-generational"?

I agree that backwards compatability isn't the right term for online console stores, compatability implies object A will work with object B.
There does look like a lot of online dependancy is letting most next gen consoles down. No one really wants to have to be online 24/7 especially considering most retro games are not online.

GAZBEROTTEN
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Re: Backwards Compatability

Post by GAZBEROTTEN » Sun Sep 30, 2018 8:12 pm

Heres an interesting documentary the Playstation Backwards Compatability that is only 22 minutes and does a good job of explaining how backwards compatability is possible on many consoles from today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcAmnuI13RY

GAZBEROTTEN
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Re: Backwards Compatability

Post by GAZBEROTTEN » Wed Oct 24, 2018 6:56 pm

UPDATE:Looks like Playystation 5 will be offering backwards compatability sony have confirmed they are working on it.

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SJ_Sathanas
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Re: Backwards Compatability

Post by SJ_Sathanas » Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:45 pm

More titles on Xbox including Call of Juarez, The Orange Box and Zone of the Enders HD.

GAZBEROTTEN
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Re: Backwards Compatability

Post by GAZBEROTTEN » Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:10 pm

SJ_Sathanas wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:45 pm
More titles on Xbox including Call of Juarez, The Orange Box and Zone of the Enders HD.
Wow didnt think Orange Box would of made it guess Micrsoft must of seen the light

GAZBEROTTEN
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Re: Backwards Compatability

Post by GAZBEROTTEN » Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:10 pm

GAZBEROTTEN wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 10:10 pm
SJ_Sathanas wrote:
Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:45 pm
More titles on Xbox including Call of Juarez, The Orange Box and Zone of the Enders HD.
Wow didnt think Orange Box would of made it guess Microsoft must of seen the light

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