Backwards Compatability

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GAZBEROTTEN
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Backwards Compatability

Post by GAZBEROTTEN » Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:17 pm

My first post here on the retro gamer forum so I have decided to make it a discussion on a controversial subject.

Just wondering what the Retro Gamer community and teams views are on the Xbox One and PlayStation 4s backwards compatibility?

My views are that this increases the library of games for console formats via platforms like Xbox One and PlayStation 4 games, as well as acts as a small stepping stone and goodwill gesture from Microsoft and Sony to developers to encourage them to develop sequels for the Xbox One And PlayStation 4 of popular franchises. This also allows the newer generations of gamers to be able to enjoy or try classic games from a previous generation. This even allows the Xbox One/PS4 to upscale some games bolstering the experience and enjoyment of classics from previous generations.

I currently am enjoying many new Xbox One and PS4 games and some of these games upscaled. And with the first generation, Xbox games going to be compatible with Xbox One it just keeps getting better and better for not only both Sony and Microsoft but for us as retro gamers as well who could enjoy last-gen classics on the newer generation of gaming systems while introducing some of the best retro games to the newer generation of gamers who can enjoy these classic games.

Sony does currently offer backwards compatibility with previous PlayStation titles via the PlayStation Now service however it is streaming based which is better than nothing. 8) Thanks to everyone on the forum for their time and replies on this thread and may I wish everyone here a pleasant week.

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greenberet79
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Re: Backwards Compatability

Post by greenberet79 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:58 am

Ain't got a clue - i haven't got a PS4 or Xbox. I am however looking forward to playing NES games on the Switch when the online stuff launches. Hopefully there'll be SNES games on the way soon.

I've also bought a couple of Neo Geo games on the Switch (Garou and Super Sidekicks 3) which I've really enjoyed.

Thing is i've got all these games on my modded Wii and PSP but i'm happy to pay for the stuff i want through official channels.

Basically i'm all for old games being as accessible in as many places to as many people as possible.
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English Invader
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Re: Backwards Compatability

Post by English Invader » Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:01 pm

GAZBEROTTEN wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:17 pm
Just wondering what the Retro Gamer community and teams views are on the Xbox One and PlayStation 4s backwards compatibility?
A joke. Emulation for whatever games they can be bothered to port over which IMO makes it negligible when considering whether to buy the systems or not. I'll stick with my 360, thanks.

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The Laird
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Re: Backwards Compatability

Post by The Laird » Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:35 pm

Backwards compatibility with the 360 is one of the key reasons I went for an Xbox One. Nearly all my favourite 360 titles now play one my XB1 (hurry up and do Lollipop Chainsaw!) so there's no reason to even plug in my 360 now.

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Tom_Baker
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Re: Backwards Compatability

Post by Tom_Baker » Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:23 pm

GAZBEROTTEN wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:17 pm
My first post here on the retro gamer forum so I have decided to make it a discussion on a controversial subject.
I thought this was going to be about Jimmy Saville or Steve Davis snooker or brexit for a second.Pheeww
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RetroBob
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Re: Backwards Compatability

Post by RetroBob » Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:28 pm

I have an Xbox One and think it's genuinely fantastic. I have well over 200 Xbox and Xbox 360 games that I just put in and it downloads the nicely upscaled games that play on my fancy new TV. Crimson Skies looks incredible in 4K! No extra cost at all (I'm looking at you Shadow of the Colossus etc.).

For digital games, they just appear in your list of available games and you can download them.
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GAZBEROTTEN
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Re: Backwards Compatability

Post by GAZBEROTTEN » Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:12 am

greenberet79 wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:58 am
Ain't got a clue - i haven't got a PS4 or Xbox. I am however looking forward to playing NES games on the Switch when the online stuff launches. Hopefully there'll be SNES games on the way soon.

I've also bought a couple of Neo Geo games on the Switch (Garou and Super Sidekicks 3) which I've really enjoyed.

Thing is i've got all these games on my modded Wii and PSP but i'm happy to pay for the stuff i want through official channels.

Basically i'm all for old games being as accessible in as many places to as many people as possible.
Thanks for the reply. I have heard about the Neo Geo and it does have some great retro games for it. I am actually thinking of hunting down an old tv and getting one with it just to be able to play some of its games. I'm assuming you will try some of the Super Mario Brothers games from the NES as my favourite one was number 3 which I played at an uncles house once.
English Invader wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:01 pm
GAZBEROTTEN wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:17 pm
Just wondering what the Retro Gamer community and teams views are on the Xbox One and PlayStation 4s backwards compatibility?
A joke. Emulation for whatever games they can be bothered to port over which IMO makes it negligible when considering whether to buy the systems or not. I'll stick with my 360, thanks.
I will admit the only four consoles that I found to be my favourites were the Sega Mega Drive, Playstation, Playstation 2 and Xbox 360. They had the better games which appealed to me and considering they were all made by separate corporations and did far better than expected. I have hundreds of Xbox 360 games all on a disc which over the many years I have spent thousands of pounds on including the consoles all being brand new.
The Laird wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 1:35 pm
Backwards compatibility with the 360 is one of the key reasons I went for an Xbox One. Nearly all my favourite 360 titles now play one my XB1 (hurry up and do Lollipop Chainsaw!) so there's no reason to even plug in my 360 now.
The games id like to see from the Xbox 360 Library to be made backwards compatible on Xbox One is Crackdown 2, Syndicate, The Outfit, Frontlines Fuel Of War, South Park Lets Go Tower Defence Play, Tony Hawks Pro Skater 2 HD. There are a lot of other Xbox 360 games that I still think should be backwards compatible like the Dead Risings but these got ported to Xbox One and also some indie games like Castle Miner Z. May never happen but I can always dream, right?
Tom_Baker wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 3:23 pm
GAZBEROTTEN wrote:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 11:17 pm
My first post here on the retro gamer forum so I have decided to make it a discussion on a controversial subject.
I thought this was going to be about Jimmy Saville or Steve Davis snooker or brexit for a second.Pheeww
Wow, these seem like very controversial subjects on this forum and I'm glad I didn't make a single mention of any of them. I could post how I feel about these subjects but don't want to be going off topic and would prefer to stick with the Backwards Compatability discussion. Glad you took some time to read the thread and am hoping you will enjoy the read.
RetroBob wrote:
Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:28 pm
I have an Xbox One and think it's genuinely fantastic. I have well over 200 Xbox and Xbox 360 games that I just put in and it downloads the nicely upscaled games that play on my fancy new TV. Crimson Skies looks incredible in 4K! No extra cost at all (I'm looking at you Shadow of the Colossus etc.).

For digital games, they just appear in your list of available games and you can download them.
What I do hope developers will consider doing is looking into having discussions with Microsoft and try to work out a fair deal that will allow a lot more games from the retro consoles like Xbox and Xbox 360 and to see if they can in some way upscale these games which will allow newer generation and old-school gamers the ability to enjoy some of the greatest games again even in the future. There are a ton of games that deserve an upscaling and deserve to run on the Xbox One from the retro days. It would save developers having to do ports or remakes and considering the Xbox One is capable of a lot more potential like the Xbox One X for example.

However during the lifespan of the Xbox One we could see some ports show up, but that would be down to both Microsoft and developers to decide in the future.

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Re: Backwards Compatability

Post by HdE » Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:15 pm

I actually bought an Xbox One last year JUST to play Xbox 360 games. I've since been cajoled into forking out for genuine Xbox One exclusives and things like the Halo Master Chief Collection. But an Xbox One with external 2TB HD LOADED with old 360 games? Bliss, right there!

I do wish Sony would take a leaf from Microsoft's book on this front. The PS2 is now officially no longer supported by Sony for repairs or servicing, and as great as it is that owners of Sony's newer consoles have the option to buy and download select PS2 titles to enjoy all over again on those platforms, that really doesn't provide an ideal solution for folks keen to revisit their PS2 collection in full.

Theer are a few bugs and glitches with Xbox One backwards compatibility (Halo: Reach, for example, won't allow me to save campaign progress unless the console is permanently connected to the internet. Stupid and completely unnecessary, in my opinion) but the best thing is, if you own a physical copy of a supported game in the BC library, no additional purchase is necessary. You just slot it in and you're away.

That ties into my biggest beef where playing older games on new consoles is concerned: if I paid for it once, I shouldn't be asked to pay for it again.

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Re: Backwards Compatability

Post by The Laird » Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:19 pm

HdE wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:15 pm
if I paid for it once, I shouldn't be asked to pay for it again.
Try explaining that to Nintendo :lol:

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NickThorpe
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Re: Backwards Compatability

Post by NickThorpe » Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:29 pm

Backwards compatibility is great, but as I keep my old consoles anyway, it doesn't tend to affect my purchasing decisions too heavily.

If I get to have one fewer device set up, that's great - I'm generally happy to sacrifice a couple of minor features (a lack of PS1 link cable support on PS2/PS3, for example) if the new machine will play most or all of my new games. The problem for me is this weird era of partial compatibility we've ended up in, as the Wii U was the last console to do full backwards compatibility. The PS3 quickly went from full PS2 compatibility to none, and the Xbox 360's support for original Xbox games was very inconsistent.

As for the current consoles I think the Xbox One approach is pretty good. The games it does run often benefit from slight improvements such as more stable frame rates, which is a really nice bonus. However, the Xbox One actually only runs about a third of my Xbox 360 games and just three of my Xbox games. That's a massive improvement over the last couple of years and definitely better than nothing, but I just don't foresee a time when I won't need to keep the old hardware around to play all my old games.

On a personal level, I don't count PlayStation Now as backwards compatibility. While it does allow you a method of playing PS3 games via a PS4, a key aspect of backwards compatibility for me is that my existing purchases are taken into account. If a game I already own is on PlayStation Now, I have to pay to access it, and if it isn't then I can't play it. Between that and the compromised experience of playing a game via remote streaming technology, it's a hard pass from me. The only time I've ever used it was during the trial period, to give a pedantic reply to an anti-PS4 dig.
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GAZBEROTTEN
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Re: Backwards Compatability

Post by GAZBEROTTEN » Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:30 pm

HdE wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:15 pm
I actually bought an Xbox One last year JUST to play Xbox 360 games. I've since been cajoled into forking out for genuine Xbox One exclusives and things like the Halo Master Chief Collection. But an Xbox One with external 2TB HD LOADED with old 360 games? Bliss, right there!

I do wish Sony would take a leaf from Microsoft's book on this front. The PS2 is now officially no longer supported by Sony for repairs or servicing, and as great as it is that owners of Sony's newer consoles have the option to buy and download select PS2 titles to enjoy all over again on those platforms, that really doesn't provide an ideal solution for folks keen to revisit their PS2 collection in full.

Theer are a few bugs and glitches with Xbox One backwards compatibility (Halo: Reach, for example, won't allow me to save campaign progress unless the console is permanently connected to the internet. Stupid and completely unnecessary, in my opinion) but the best thing is, if you own a physical copy of a supported game in the BC library, no additional purchase is necessary. You just slot it in and you're away.

That ties into my biggest beef where playing older games on new consoles is concerned: if I paid for it once, I shouldn't be asked to pay for it again.
I wonder if the developers could set up a key with each game in the future that when a newer generation of consoles comes out then if that game is supported via Backwards Compatability then you would just input the key and get it for free or ports of that particular game that way without rebuying a game you already own?
I guess the bugs in certain Xbox 360 games might exist because at the time the game was developed the developers made it for Xbox 360 which was made to work with specific hardware. Because Xbox One has a different hardware configuration that could explain some of the bugs that appear via emulation.
The Laird wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:19 pm
HdE wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:15 pm
if I paid for it once, I shouldn't be asked to pay for it again.
Try explaining that to Nintendo :lol:
I hope eventually Nintendo will decide to offer some way to get ports of games you already own for free so that you don't end up with two copies of the same game on different platforms when games are not that cheap in most places. It would be a good way to persuade fans of that game franchise to consider jumping ship to the newest Nintendo console.

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Re: Backwards Compatability

Post by GAZBEROTTEN » Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:36 pm

NickThorpe wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:29 pm
Backwards compatibility is great, but as I keep my old consoles anyway, it doesn't tend to affect my purchasing decisions too heavily.

If I get to have one fewer device set up, that's great - I'm generally happy to sacrifice a couple of minor features (a lack of PS1 link cable support on PS2/PS3, for example) if the new machine will play most or all of my new games. The problem for me is this weird era of partial compatibility we've ended up in, as the Wii U was the last console to do full backwards compatibility. The PS3 quickly went from full PS2 compatibility to none, and the Xbox 360's support for original Xbox games was very inconsistent.

As for the current consoles I think the Xbox One approach is pretty good. The games it does run often benefit from slight improvements such as more stable frame rates, which is a really nice bonus. However, the Xbox One actually only runs about a third of my Xbox 360 games and just three of my Xbox games. That's a massive improvement over the last couple of years and definitely better than nothing, but I just don't foresee a time when I won't need to keep the old hardware around to play all my old games.

On a personal level, I don't count PlayStation Now as backwards compatibility. While it does allow you a method of playing PS3 games via a PS4, a key aspect of backwards compatibility for me is that my existing purchases are taken into account. If a game I already own is on PlayStation Now, I have to pay to access it, and if it isn't then I can't play it. Between that and the compromised experience of playing a game via remote streaming technology, it's a hard pass from me. The only time I've ever used it was during the trial period, to give a pedantic reply to an anti-PS4 dig.
Hi Nick thanks for dropping by the thread and responding

What id like to see happen is for Sony and Microsoft to contact teams who have produced amazing work with emulation on the pc which has allowed some of there next generation systems games to run on pc, and to work with these companies on making some decent software like that for next-generation consoles. This way a few more games could run and it could even develop further with the more teams each company has working on it.

Perhaps in the near future as last gen hardware drops down greatly in price Sony and Microsoft could include this as an additional way to run older games as a handy feature to have for all gamers and retro gamers as a whole.

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Re: Backwards Compatability

Post by pratty » Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:17 pm

GAZBEROTTEN wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:30 pm
The Laird wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:19 pm
HdE wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 12:15 pm
if I paid for it once, I shouldn't be asked to pay for it again.
Try explaining that to Nintendo :lol:
I hope eventually Nintendo will decide to offer some way to get ports of games you already own for free so that you don't end up with two copies of the same game on different platforms when games are not that cheap in most places. It would be a good way to persuade fans of that game franchise to consider jumping ship to the newest Nintendo console.
That may be possible with digital purchases going forward on their next hardware. But for physical software proving that the owner bought it new would be tricky.

I really think we're being too idealistic and entitled though. I like backwards compatability and I like ports, but companies are in no way obliged to provide either. It should be clearly understood that when you buy a console game you're buying it to play on that console, and nobody is taking our old systems away from us. Gaming is still generally forward focused, and I'd suggest most gamers (ie not us; the minority of retro gamers) only play current gen games.

And Nintendo are only asking us to pay for ports, not forcing the money out of our wallets. Don't bite and they will have to lower their prices. But bear in mind some ports and remakes still require some effort to make/provide, and they often offer an improved and/or convenient experience to the original. If they choose to be generous then more power to them, but it's not something we should take for granted.

Nintendo have actually been pretty good with backwards compatibility in recent years, offering a generation of backwards compatibility for the last few generations. That ended with the change in media and the form of their console, ie the handheld Switch doesn't use discs. If the next Nintendo system is anything like the Switch I wouldn't be surprised if it supports Switch carts, assuming it still uses physical media.
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GAZBEROTTEN
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Re: Backwards Compatability

Post by GAZBEROTTEN » Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:15 pm

pratty wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:17 pm
GAZBEROTTEN wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:30 pm
The Laird wrote:
Fri Sep 07, 2018 1:19 pm


Try explaining that to Nintendo :lol:
I hope eventually Nintendo will decide to offer some way to get ports of games you already own for free so that you don't end up with two copies of the same game on different platforms when games are not that cheap in most places. It would be a good way to persuade fans of that game franchise to consider jumping ship to the newest Nintendo console.
That may be possible with digital purchases going forward on their next hardware. But for physical software proving that the owner bought it new would be tricky.

I really think we're being too idealistic and entitled though. I like backwards compatability and I like ports, but companies are in no way obliged to provide either. It should be clearly understood that when you buy a console game you're buying it to play on that console, and nobody is taking our old systems away from us. Gaming is still generally forward focused, and I'd suggest most gamers (ie not us; the minority of retro gamers) only play current gen games.

And Nintendo are only asking us to pay for ports, not forcing the money out of our wallets. Don't bite and they will have to lower their prices. But bear in mind some ports and remakes still require some effort to make/provide, and they often offer an improved and/or convenient experience to the original. If they choose to be generous then more power to them, but it's not something we should take for granted.

Nintendo have actually been pretty good with backwards compatibility in recent years, offering a generation of backwards compatibility for the last few generations. That ended with the change in media and the form of their console, ie the handheld Switch doesn't use discs. If the next Nintendo system is anything like the Switch I wouldn't be surprised if it supports Switch carts, assuming it still uses physical media.
Fantastic responses from the community here. One thing I did like about the Nintendo Wii was that it could run Gamecube games. One Gamecube game in particular that I loved playing on the Wii is Metal Gear Solid The Twin Snakes. There are a few I would have loved to of played on that system from the Game Cube but sadly never had the time to do so.

Although I do wonder how many games Nintendo has even from as far back from the NES days up to the Switch. Must be thousands at least.

English Invader
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Re: Backwards Compatability

Post by English Invader » Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:37 am

I guess I have a beef with console manufacturers claiming backwards compatibility when it's not supported in hardware and the library of games is significantly reduced. In my book, if I can't play my old discs or any used discs I buy in the future, it's not backwards compatible in any way that matters to me and manufacturers have a cheek selling it like PS1 to PS2 when the reality is a lot different to that.

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against the current gen systems and may even branch out to one of them in the not too distant future but my decisions will be based completely on their current games and backwards compatibility (for want of a better word) will not be taken into account.

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