Page 1 of 2

What was the first open world, real 3D, 3rd person action adventure?

Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 5:35 am
by Gigifusc
The earliest I can remember is Hunter on Amiga:
Image
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QA3pTA2DNhc

But I seem to remember there was a 3D line vector game on the Speccy that had a 3rd person camera??

I'm talking character based as opposed to vehicle.

Re: What was the first open world, real 3D, 3rd person action adventure?

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:49 am
by Antiriad2097
Mercenary on the 8-bits significantly predates that, though I suspect that isn't the first either.

Re: What was the first open world, real 3D, 3rd person action adventure?

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:53 pm
by paranoid marvin
Ant Attack?

Re: What was the first open world, real 3D, 3rd person action adventure?

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:00 pm
by Gigifusc
Mercenary was first person though. It might have had a 3rd person camera but it was a 1st person game really - but like Skyrim. You wouldn't say Skyrim was 3rd person.

And Ant Attack was forced perspective 3D so again doesn't count.

Unless I'm wrong?

Re: What was the first open world, real 3D, 3rd person action adventure?

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:50 pm
by paranoid marvin
Gigifusc wrote:
Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:00 pm
Mercenary was first person though. It might have had a 3rd person camera but it was a 1st person game really - but like Skyrim. You wouldn't say Skyrim was 3rd person.

And Ant Attack was forced perspective 3D so again doesn't count.

Unless I'm wrong?

Ant Attack allowed you to view the world from different angles and you could go behind objects as well as over and through them. It's essentially isometric 3d; depends whether you class that as 'real'.

Re: What was the first open world, real 3D, 3rd person action adventure?

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 8:46 pm
by ncf1
Wow, good question.. I don't think there was anything on the Apple II, then the C64 there was Tau Ceti.. that's about the best I can come up with, I think that was the first true 3d game I came across. But it was so slow that for me it was unplayable so I didn't even bother with it.

Re: What was the first open world, real 3D, 3rd person action adventure?

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:07 pm
by Matt_B
Elite pre-dates both Tau Ceti and Mercenary and pretty much wrote the book on procedurally generated universes. However, it is obviously vehicle based and first person and you could largely say the same for the other two. I suppose it's possible to "walk" in Mercenary, but seeing as that's basically the same as moving in a very slow vehicle so far as the gameplay is concerned, the distinction seems a bit moot.

For earlier games on other computers there are lots of variations on the 3D maze theme, such as 3D Monster Maze on the ZX81, but they're not exactly open worlds.

Working from the other direction, Midwinter is another game in similar vein to Hunter but it came out a couple of years earlier. It's in first person rather than third, but you've got a similar deal with being able to walk around an open world and use various vehicles.

Re: What was the first open world, real 3D, 3rd person action adventure?

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 9:37 pm
by outdated_gamer
imo the problem with these old "true 3D" polygon or vector games is that they usually ran very sluggish. Despite the simplistic look, they required a whole lot of 3D vector math processing power for the time so they usually only ran well on top Arcade hardware (such as the Texas Instruments TMS34010 powered Hard Drivin' and S.T.U.N. Racer) or top computer CPUs (386/68030 level CPUs), although some old 3D games did manage to run well on lesser hardware too (a good example is "No Second Prize" for Amiga and ST which managed to maintain playlable framerates while having full 3D graphics).

The Hunter probably is the first "GTA like" 3D game on classic hardware and Midwinter would be the first "Far Cry like" 3D game.

Re: What was the first open world, real 3D, 3rd person action adventure?

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:50 am
by Gigifusc
So maybe one problem is to define '3rd person' as well as define 3D?

3rd person is exactly that - is the default game played from behind the main character? This is why something like Skyrim isn't really considered 3rd person because, depite having a 3rd person camera, it's default play style is really 1st person. (Yes, I know some people play it in 3rd, but the default is 1st).

As for 3D, I've struggled to clarify this 100% tbh. I didn't even realise that games like Dungeon Master weren't actually 3D - they just gave the illusion of 3D. I'd say isometric games fall into this category - so it's not even about moving behing an object because this can be faked. It's about the actual world itself being true 3D. How you check this, I'm not sure tbh. But as examples, Mario64 is true 3D, Knightlore isn't. Falcon is true 3D, Afterburner isn't. Hard Driving was true 3D, ChaseHQ wasn't. (As far as I'm aware)

ncf1 - wasn't Tau Ceti 1st person and vehicle based??

So as noted above, Elite and Mercenary were real 3D games, but were not 3rd person.

Re: What was the first open world, real 3D, 3rd person action adventure?

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 7:16 am
by General Opulence
It was very unique and very underrated at the time, starting to get some recognition in later years, years ahead of some similar styled games now we take for granted.
As others have mentioned there are a couple of first person games Mercenary, Midwinter etc but i can't think of another 3rd person 3d world game that came earlier than 1991.

Re: What was the first open world, real 3D, 3rd person action adventure?

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 3:32 pm
by outdated_gamer
Gigifusc wrote:
Mon Sep 11, 2017 6:50 am
So maybe one problem is to define '3rd person' as well as define 3D?

3rd person is exactly that - is the default game played from behind the main character? This is why something like Skyrim isn't really considered 3rd person because, depite having a 3rd person camera, it's default play style is really 1st person. (Yes, I know some people play it in 3rd, but the default is 1st).

As for 3D, I've struggled to clarify this 100% tbh. I didn't even realise that games like Dungeon Master weren't actually 3D - they just gave the illusion of 3D. I'd say isometric games fall into this category - so it's not even about moving behing an object because this can be faked. It's about the actual world itself being true 3D. How you check this, I'm not sure tbh. But as examples, Mario64 is true 3D, Knightlore isn't. Falcon is true 3D, Afterburner isn't. Hard Driving was true 3D, ChaseHQ wasn't. (As far as I'm aware)

ncf1 - wasn't Tau Ceti 1st person and vehicle based??

So as noted above, Elite and Mercenary were real 3D games, but were not 3rd person.
Some say "2nd person" would be the correct term, but "3rd person" is what everyone uses.

Mario 64 was 3D but it actually had a lot of 2D billboards. For example if you look at the trees in SM64, they always face the camera. This is because they are completely 2D. Tomb Raider and Quake were "full 3D" though. Only the explosions and blood was 2D in Quake but everything else was textured polygon 3D.

Re: What was the first open world, real 3D, 3rd person action adventure?

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:24 pm
by Matt_B
The first/second/third person usage relates to pronouns.

The first person pronoun is "I", so a first-person perspective is from inside the character you're playing.
The third person pronouns are "him/her/it", so, a third-person perspective is looking at the character you're playing from outside.

The second person pronoun is "you" and this doesn't really make sense in terms of video game perspectives. Maybe a text adventure that responds in the form "you did..." could be described as second-person, but second-person perspective graphically would be the equivalent of looking in a mirror while you play the game. Maybe it makes sense in terms of AR games where you can see yourself interacting with the environment?

Re: What was the first open world, real 3D, 3rd person action adventure?

Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:10 am
by paranoid marvin
I still don't get why Ant Attack isn't 3d though. Yeah the likes of Knight Lore, Sweevos World etc were isometric, but AA was able to view objects from different angles, all the objects and people had 4 sides to them. What's the difference between Hunter and AA?

Re: What was the first open world, real 3D, 3rd person action adventure?

Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:56 am
by Gigifusc
paranoid marvin wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:10 am
I still don't get why Ant Attack isn't 3d though. Yeah the likes of Knight Lore, Sweevos World etc were isometric, but AA was able to view objects from different angles, all the objects and people had 4 sides to them. What's the difference between Hunter and AA?
Ok, so that's a good question and I don't have the technical knowledge to completely answer. Possibly the fact that you cannot move smoothly between angles - you jump between set camera positions - means that the entire way the game handles 3D is not the same as Hunter which has completely free moving camera set behind the protagonist. So the game and its 3D art was created to work exclusively in an isometric viewpoint as it scrolls along the horizontal axis of the game world.

Apologies if that's not 100% correct.

I found this which explains it a bit but I'm not sure it's a definitive answer:
http://www.crashonline.org.uk/06/3d.htm
(Scroll about 3 quarters down).

Having said that, if I'm wrong in my understanding, Antattack could well be the first 3rd person real 3D game??

Re: What was the first open world, real 3D, 3rd person action adventure?

Posted: Thu Sep 14, 2017 7:59 pm
by outdated_gamer
paranoid marvin wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:10 am
I still don't get why Ant Attack isn't 3d though. Yeah the likes of Knight Lore, Sweevos World etc were isometric, but AA was able to view objects from different angles, all the objects and people had 4 sides to them. What's the difference between Hunter and AA?
No smoothly rotating objects, just images viewed from different angles. Battlezone (1980) and Star Wars (1983) are 3D because you can see all the objects from all angles rotating smoothly, so it's objects moving in a X, Y, Z grid while in a "isometic 3D" game like Ant Attack or Populous you see a flat image which can be viewed from more angles but doesn't actually smoothly rotate and scale in space. If something always faces the camera regardless of which position you look at it, you can be sure it's a flat 2D image.