First home game u played that was closest 2 arcade quality?

Discuss and discover all the great games of yesteryear!

Moderators: mknott, NickThorpe, Darran@Retro Gamer, MMohammed, lcarlson

User avatar
rocky1980
Posts: 3303
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 12:24 pm
Location: Bonnie Scotland

Re: First home game u played that was closest 2 arcade quali

Post by rocky1980 » Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:46 pm

Yep. Forgot about Neo Geo. It literally was the arcade at home.
I still remember seeing the adverts for AES consoles and games in the back of ACE magazine around 1990. On that sticks in my mind was golf - £200. So in todays prices thats around £450 :shock:
Rocky
King of The Quids 2011 Winner :D
http://www.youtube.com/user/rockythefishman

Image Image

HEAVYface
Posts: 1114
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:48 am

Re: First home game u played that was closest 2 arcade quali

Post by HEAVYface » Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:29 pm

When I look at the Neo Geo, I just see a limited selection of SF2 clones and Metal Slug, but it never came across as astonishing or groundbreaking, especially at THAT price. Moderately impressive 2D sure, but I was still far more impressed technically by Donkey Kong Country...even with its mere 32 "megapower" :P
neo geo has some of the best looking 2d games even when judged against more powerful hardware. one thing it doesn't get enough credit for - there seems to be quite a lot of attention given to the level finish of games running on the hardware even from 3rd party developers. Some CPS based games are incredibly tatty by comparison.

IMO the production values on something like last resort, metal slug 1-3, or even pulstar or blazing star (although pre-rendered stuff usually sucks) is unmatched on equivalent 16bit hardware.

also replay donkey kong country again, visually most of it is a butt ugly, low colour depth patchwork of elements. it's fluid to play i'll grant you, it's got some nice parallax scrolling and I like the rhino riding. pre-rendered on really snes doesn't look good, but like I said i'm not a fan of the technique anyway.

User avatar
outdated_gamer
Posts: 2599
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:14 pm

Re: First home game u played that was closest 2 arcade quali

Post by outdated_gamer » Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:59 pm

Sephiroth81 wrote:
outdated_gamer wrote:
Neo Geo says hi. :wink:

Although it was darn expensive (both, the system and the games), it did deliver "Arcade-perfect" conversions into homes (of rich kids).

ColecoVision, PC Engine, 32X, 3DO, PSX, Amiga and DOS PC also enjoyed a number of near Arcade ports.
True, although those Neo Geo games weren't arcade games I was familiar with, at least in the UK. When I think of arcade games of the 1990s (when I believe the Neo Geo came out), I think of The Simpsons, Turtles, Daytona, Ridge Racer, Sega Rally, Street Fighter 2 etc.

When I look at the Neo Geo, I just see a limited selection of SF2 clones and Metal Slug, but it never came across as astonishing or groundbreaking, especially at THAT price. Moderately impressive 2D sure, but I was still far more impressed technically by Donkey Kong Country...even with its mere 32 "megapower" :P
Indeed, I also wasn't as interested in SNK's catalogue of games as I was into those more popular Arcade titles everyone knew about. But SNK was strong enough back then to support the system basically all by themselves and it was a 2D powerhouse with some cool scaling effects and it kept existing for quite a long time in it's own enthusiast niche. It might not have been technically capable of 3D polygon rendering and such, but it excelled at 2D stuff, which, as many would say, ages better than old 3D does. I agree about DKC though, I would also have picked it over something like Art of Fighting on the Neo, despite the large characters and impressive scaling effects.
Last edited by outdated_gamer on Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
paranoid marvin
Posts: 14264
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2006 11:28 pm
Location: 21st Century Earth

Re: First home game u played that was closest 2 arcade quali

Post by paranoid marvin » Wed Jan 25, 2017 9:01 pm

Back in the day, the likelihood of owning a Neo Geo was about the same as owning an arcade machine - virtually zero. Anyway, games on computer tended to ave much more lastability than arcade games - which were designed with the sole intention to guzzle coins. Give me Sensi or Kick Off 2 over any of the many Neo-Geo footie games, and give me C64 IK+ or SNES SFII over most of the fighters too.
Mr Flibble says...
"Game over , boys!"

User avatar
Sephiroth81
Posts: 4572
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:35 pm

Re: First home game u played that was closest 2 arcade quali

Post by Sephiroth81 » Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:15 pm

paranoid marvin wrote:Back in the day, the likelihood of owning a Neo Geo was about the same as owning an arcade machine - virtually zero. Anyway, games on computer tended to ave much more lastability than arcade games - which were designed with the sole intention to guzzle coins. Give me Sensi or Kick Off 2 over any of the many Neo-Geo footie games, and give me C64 IK+ or SNES SFII over most of the fighters too.
Exactly. I vaguely remember seeing Fatal Fury covered in magazines for Neo Geo, and just felt it was a crappy SFII wannabe, but at many times the price.

Even with the benefit of emulation, I can't really get into any Neo Geo games (and Fatal Fury turned out to be just as I thought). The 2D is impressive on the Neo Geo, but even if the Neo Geo and its games were priced equally with the Super Nintendo or Sega Megadrive, it would have always been 3rd choice for me. Full respect though for the longevity of the platform.

User avatar
bensonrad
Posts: 3567
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2006 2:17 pm
Location: Seaford, Sussex

Re: First home game u played that was closest 2 arcade quali

Post by bensonrad » Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:31 pm

Gauntlet II on the Amiga I always thought was just like playing the arcade.
WANTED: Mario Party 3 on N64 (just the Box only) ANY SNES GAMES, OR EMPTY SNES BOXES, INSTRUCTION MANUALS or WHITE INNER TRAYS.

RetroPlayer
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:49 pm

Re: First home game u played that was closest 2 arcade quali

Post by RetroPlayer » Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:53 am

I remember being blown away with Sega Rally on the Saturn.
Going back further, the Megadrive port of Outrun was pretty good.

User avatar
joefish
Posts: 3070
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:05 am

Re: First home game u played that was closest 2 arcade quali

Post by joefish » Thu Jan 26, 2017 12:10 pm

HEAVYface wrote:Pre-rendered on really snes doesn't look good, but like I said i'm not a fan of the technique anyway.
You could start a thread of Arcade Games that look like crap shareware knock-offs based on that!
I remember the first time I saw a Prehistoric Isle 2 arcade machine and thinking 'Wow, there's a sequel!'. Then you play it and see these pre-rendered sprites that have a rubbery plasticene look and super-smooth fluid animations, but that jar horribly with the grainy backgrounds and their own pixellated outlines.

User avatar
RodimusPrime
Posts: 4141
Joined: Sat May 25, 2013 4:16 pm

Re: First home game u played that was closest 2 arcade quali

Post by RodimusPrime » Thu Jan 26, 2017 1:41 pm

joefish wrote:
HEAVYface wrote:Pre-rendered on really snes doesn't look good, but like I said i'm not a fan of the technique anyway.
You could start a thread of Arcade Games that look like crap shareware knock-offs based on that!
I remember the first time I saw a Prehistoric Isle 2 arcade machine and thinking 'Wow, there's a sequel!'. Then you play it and see these pre-rendered sprites that have a rubbery plasticene look and super-smooth fluid animations, but that jar horribly with the grainy backgrounds and their own pixellated outlines.
Pre rendered never looks as good as decent sprite work.

I got into an argument with someone before where I said UN squadron was a far better looking game than Trevor mcfur on the jag. They kept going on about how advanced it looked at the time and how technically superior Trevor mcfur was.

To me that meant nothing, UN squadron IMO is visually far more appealing

User avatar
joefish
Posts: 3070
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 1:05 am

Re: First home game u played that was closest 2 arcade quali

Post by joefish » Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:03 pm

I think pre-rendered works OK if:

(a) there was a decent designer involved in the first place
(b) the art design is consistent across all sprites and backgrounds
(c) the lighting of the models isn't so directional that it's obvious when a sprite is drawn in the 'wrong place' compared to its neighbours (and isn't just arbitrarily mirrored, which is worse).
(d) the rendering extends to defining alpha-blending for the pixels around the edges of the sprites, and a display function that can then perform blending of sprites onto backgrounds, so they appear properly anti-aliased instead of jarring outlines like a Cecil B. deMille epic.

So yes, on the SNES and Neo-Geo you're lucky if you get either of the first two, and the last is (so far as I know) impossible (in as much as they can only blend layers, not individual sprites). Something like Abe's Oddysee on the Playstation though gets it right on all counts. And that ended up still looking superior to the fully-3D sequel on the XBox! I can't think of a decent arcade example, although I didn't really have a problem with Blazing Star / Pulstar. Maybe I need to look at them more closely.

User avatar
Katzkatz
Posts: 6984
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2007 11:03 pm
Location: Sunny Eastern London suburb of Leytonstone and my own mind!

Re: First home game u played that was closest 2 arcade quali

Post by Katzkatz » Thu Jan 26, 2017 5:52 pm

bensonrad wrote:Gauntlet II on the Amiga I always thought was just like playing the arcade.
Yeah, sort of seconded - as I played the Atari ST version first. I was so impressed that Gauntlet had made its way to the home computers - especially, as I had spent most of my summer holidays playing it in the arcade!

I'd also add the Sega Master System's version of Afterburner. Pretty close to the arcade version, as it could use more colours than most of the other 8 bit systems around at the time. A pretty impressive home conversion.

HEAVYface
Posts: 1114
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 6:48 am

Re: First home game u played that was closest 2 arcade quali

Post by HEAVYface » Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:26 pm

joefish wrote:I think pre-rendered works OK if:

(a) there was a decent designer involved in the first place
(b) the art design is consistent across all sprites and backgrounds
(c) the lighting of the models isn't so directional that it's obvious when a sprite is drawn in the 'wrong place' compared to its neighbours (and isn't just arbitrarily mirrored, which is worse).
(d) the rendering extends to defining alpha-blending for the pixels around the edges of the sprites, and a display function that can then perform blending of sprites onto backgrounds, so they appear properly anti-aliased instead of jarring outlines like a Cecil B. deMille epic.

So yes, on the SNES and Neo-Geo you're lucky if you get either of the first two, and the last is (so far as I know) impossible (in as much as they can only blend layers, not individual sprites). Something like Abe's Oddysee on the Playstation though gets it right on all counts. And that ended up still looking superior to the fully-3D sequel on the XBox! I can't think of a decent arcade example, although I didn't really have a problem with Blazing Star / Pulstar. Maybe I need to look at them more closely.
blazing star and pulstar look ok - pulstar is cleaner looking than blazing star. both titles mix pre rendered and hand drawn stuff liberally. because blazing star has a lot of mechanical enemies the pre rendered stuff isn't too jarring in that title, but it does look scrappy in places. when they try to make natural stuff using rendered sprites - that's when its most noticeable and ugly.
viewpoint is the best pre-rendered neo geo game because its so abstract/not trying to look real - but even that fails in the later stages through some crappy boss concepts. the last resort looks better than all three I think.

oh and un squadron was definitely better looking than trevor mc fur - from a purely sprite design standpoint its much more appealing.

theres a few more recent examples of pre-rendered games that look gash - mars matrix and redux spring to mind. Cave barely get away with it in stuff like dodonpachi and deathsmiles, the games are so fun that It doesn't annoy as much. if deathsmiles was hand drawn more like cotton 2 it would probably be in my top three shooters.

User avatar
outdated_gamer
Posts: 2599
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 5:14 pm

Re: First home game u played that was closest 2 arcade quali

Post by outdated_gamer » Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:32 am

RodimusPrime wrote:
joefish wrote:
HEAVYface wrote:Pre-rendered on really snes doesn't look good, but like I said i'm not a fan of the technique anyway.
You could start a thread of Arcade Games that look like crap shareware knock-offs based on that!
I remember the first time I saw a Prehistoric Isle 2 arcade machine and thinking 'Wow, there's a sequel!'. Then you play it and see these pre-rendered sprites that have a rubbery plasticene look and super-smooth fluid animations, but that jar horribly with the grainy backgrounds and their own pixellated outlines.
Pre rendered never looks as good as decent sprite work.
I'm in the opposite camp as I believe the only thing the original DKC trilogy needed would be a HD rework of all sprites and a larger colour palette (24-bit BPP) and it would still look pretty damn great today. :wink:

With that said, good "hand-drawn" style can be great too. On the SNES, Yoshi's Island and Kirby's Dream Land 3 were prime examples of this.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests