Retro Gaming. How far Back is your cut off point.

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Spector
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Re: Retro Gaming. How far Back is your cut off point.

Post by Spector » Tue May 31, 2016 12:12 pm

MikeFishcake wrote:
The Beans wrote:As ever on here, "modern gaming" is given a stupidly narrow interpretation that seems to only encompasses the major triple-A franchises. Gaming on the Xbox 360 also includes XBLA and XBLIG where variety, experimentation and even innovation are there in significant quantities. The indie scene as a whole is far more exotic than what we were being fed by publishers and coders in 1984.
I totally agree with this and I'd say something similar to anyone who says that gaming is too samey.

Wait for the next Steam sale and try a handful of indie games with a massive discount (read reviews if you're unsure about quality). You tend to get some of the really experimental stuff at itch.io. Try picking up bundles from places like Humble Bundle, Bundle Stars, Indie Gala, Groupees etc. There's a boatload of good stuff out there in "indie world"; more than anyone will ever have the time to play.
It's really interesting reading both those posts (well, maybe not so much the beans one) after the one I made with the rock and roll analogy, because if you substitute "games", "gaming" etc with "music", they have virtually the same old argument word for word used by the John Peel brigade ie. popular music is rubbish, and the real quality is underground,which I thought was cobblers. But games aren't music, and maybe the analogy doesn't fit after all. All I can say is, looking at the games my nephew gets excited about on his xbox one, I certainly don't regret being of an older generation!
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gman72
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Re: Retro Gaming. How far Back is your cut off point.

Post by gman72 » Tue May 31, 2016 1:47 pm

yeah, you don't like new games. We get it, Spector.
“To gain your own voice, you have to forget about having it heard.” —Allen Ginsberg, WD

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RodimusPrime
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Re: Retro Gaming. How far Back is your cut off point.

Post by RodimusPrime » Tue May 31, 2016 3:23 pm

Was going to say a lot more but my feelings can be summed up in a single sentence.

Spector talking complete and utter bollocks.

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outdated_gamer
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Re: Retro Gaming. How far Back is your cut off point.

Post by outdated_gamer » Tue May 31, 2016 3:41 pm

RodimusPrime wrote:Was going to say a lot more but my feelings can be summed up in a single sentence.

Spector talking complete and utter bollocks.
So what's wrong with what he said? :wink:

If he feels modern games are dull that's his view. Saying that there was more experimentation and risk-taking in the past is also pretty much true. We just recently had a thread about the disappearing "middle-tier" production games and it's no secret modern gaming is mostly about streamlining and polishing proven concepts. When something like "Splatoon" seems like the most original new game idea, you know the "AAA" game industry is quite stale and unimaginative. It's, indeed, the indie scenes that are keeping modern gaming interesting and varied. You just don't expect that from the big pubs and you can't lie to yourself that you do. At best, they just help publishing those projects if they see a point in it (read: platform exclusivity and broadening of audiences).

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The Beans
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Re: Retro Gaming. How far Back is your cut off point.

Post by The Beans » Tue May 31, 2016 3:44 pm

Steady on folks! :lol:

The music analogy is a bit thin (the myth of 60s popular music taste being all about change and innovation can be easily disproved by looking at the decade's charts - easy listening features large) but apart from that all Spector's really saying is he's stuck in the past the same as just about every other old geezer and he prefers old stuff to new stuff. It's hardly a major deal.
If it's slower than me, dumber than me and it tastes good ... tough titty.

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RodimusPrime
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Re: Retro Gaming. How far Back is your cut off point.

Post by RodimusPrime » Tue May 31, 2016 3:50 pm

Nothing wrong with having a preference, but at least don't be a handsome and sexy man about it and exaggerate to the point of making yourself look like a complete Stud when doing it.

Same as someone who prefers PC gaming but acts like a complete and utter Beautiful human being when tryin to make his point. know what I mean :wink:

anyway Spector has some valid points, but they are lost in the very mature and well thought out way he delivers them. just as bad as modern gamers saying all old games are crap. Legends and scholars, the lot of them/

anyway it was easier to come up with new concepts when all you had to do was make a basic concept around it, make it last no more than 4 or so levels that loop back around and had maybe 20mins of gameplay from start to finish. that's if the game was actually able to be completed.

Plenty of fresh ideas but the overall average quality was far lower back in the day and it was rife with knock offs and rip offs. lets not let the rose tinted glasses get in the way of reality here.

Edited to avoid offending anybody. as apparently my original post did.
Last edited by RodimusPrime on Fri Jun 03, 2016 8:29 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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The Beans
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Re: Retro Gaming. How far Back is your cut off point.

Post by The Beans » Tue May 31, 2016 3:51 pm

outdated_gamer wrote: it's no secret modern gaming is mostly about streamlining and polishing proven concepts.
It should be obvious to all that gaming, right from the start, has been mostly about improving, expanding and polishing proven concepts. It isn't something that should only be attributed to modern games.
If it's slower than me, dumber than me and it tastes good ... tough titty.

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gman72
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Re: Retro Gaming. How far Back is your cut off point.

Post by gman72 » Wed Jun 01, 2016 4:39 am

The Beans wrote:
outdated_gamer wrote: it's no secret modern gaming is mostly about streamlining and polishing proven concepts.
It should be obvious to all that gaming, right from the start, has been mostly about improving, expanding and polishing proven concepts. It isn't something that should only be attributed to modern games.
Absolutely, The Beans.
It's utterly absurd to suggest that improvement through repetition is a concept exclusive to modern gaming...
“To gain your own voice, you have to forget about having it heard.” —Allen Ginsberg, WD

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outdated_gamer
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Re: Retro Gaming. How far Back is your cut off point.

Post by outdated_gamer » Wed Jun 01, 2016 11:31 am

The Beans wrote:
outdated_gamer wrote: it's no secret modern gaming is mostly about streamlining and polishing proven concepts.
It should be obvious to all that gaming, right from the start, has been mostly about improving, expanding and polishing proven concepts. It isn't something that should only be attributed to modern games.
I know that pretty well and I'm not opposed to polishing and improving proven concepts, I'm just pointing out that the "AAA" budget type of games usually don't experiment much. It's usually just some changes in the scenery and such, the core game stays the same which, if rehashed too much, can give a sour taste in mouth even for those who are regular customers of said rehashed franchises.

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gman72
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Re: Retro Gaming. How far Back is your cut off point.

Post by gman72 » Wed Jun 01, 2016 1:31 pm

outdated_gamer wrote:
I know that pretty well and I'm not opposed to polishing and improving proven concepts, I'm just pointing out that the "AAA" budget type of games usually don't experiment much. It's usually just some changes in the scenery and such, the core game stays the same which, if rehashed too much, can give a sour taste in mouth even for those who are regular customers of said rehashed franchises.
Yes, but this has been going on since games started more or less.

Flick-screen collect-em-ups on 8bit computers, side scrolling platformers on NES, the glut of animal based side scrolling collect-em-ups on SNES, side scrolling beat-em-ups on 16 bit machines, Fifa going all the way to the Megadrive, International Superstar Soccer going all the way back to the NES. Command and Conquer clones on PC... to name a scant few gaming trends.

Your talking about a trait that you deem unpleasant in GAMES... not exclusively MODERN GAMES
“To gain your own voice, you have to forget about having it heard.” —Allen Ginsberg, WD

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Sephiroth81
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Re: Retro Gaming. How far Back is your cut off point.

Post by Sephiroth81 » Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:17 pm

gman72 wrote: Your talking about a trait that you deem unpleasant in GAMES... not exclusively MODERN GAMES
True, although you're talking about 40 years of it now, rather than 10-20 years of it as it would have been in the 80s/90s. I am not personally tired of videogames yet (modern or retro), but I can see why some may be bored of the same routines that play out in games, just with a more glossy lick of paint. Gaming in the 80s and 90s still had sequels and repetitive concepts, but perhaps it was just that bit "fresher" at the time (or felt that way because we weren't exposed to it 24/7 with internet media coverage).

But I do remember the overkill of side-scrolling platformers during the 16 bit era that you mentioned. Mario 64 et al were VERY welcome when they came in 1996/97. This was the revolution perhaps some are waiting for again to this day. Where is the next Doom or Mario 64 coming from?

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gman72
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Re: Retro Gaming. How far Back is your cut off point.

Post by gman72 » Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:41 pm

Unfortunately the wheel does not get reinvented very often in gaming history, for every Pac Man, Elite, Mario 64, Resident Evil 4, Final Fantasy 7 etc there are 500 Aero The Acrobats, or soulless First person shooters. People that expect gaming to reinvent itself every few months are very blinkered indeed. Worse are people that will disregard a game or call it crap just because it is a new entry in a popular genre.
“To gain your own voice, you have to forget about having it heard.” —Allen Ginsberg, WD

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DPrinny
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Re: Retro Gaming. How far Back is your cut off point.

Post by DPrinny » Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:07 pm

Image

Oh boy, internet drama

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gman72
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Re: Retro Gaming. How far Back is your cut off point.

Post by gman72 » Wed Jun 01, 2016 3:19 pm

DPrinny wrote:Image

Oh boy, internet drama
Oh really? Maybe in your picture based world. In reality we are having a discussion about gaming trends and peoples opinions there of... you enjoy your pop corn though. :roll:
“To gain your own voice, you have to forget about having it heard.” —Allen Ginsberg, WD

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Sephiroth81
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Re: Retro Gaming. How far Back is your cut off point.

Post by Sephiroth81 » Thu Jun 02, 2016 6:32 am

gman72 wrote: Oh really? Maybe in your picture based world. In reality we are having a discussion about gaming trends and peoples opinions there of... you enjoy your pop corn though. :roll:
Ah yes. Where would we be without dprinnys crucial interventions with his very well-worn GIFs?

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