Does anyone here MAKE games?

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Cabal
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Post by Cabal » Wed May 16, 2007 10:50 am

I used the first version of Dark Basic a few years back and its rather good fun, and I dont see why you can't make a game similar to the freescape titles. If you know a little Basic then go for the latest version(whatever that maybe), its definitely worth it.

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MikeHive
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Post by MikeHive » Wed May 16, 2007 10:54 am

Mmm, I don't know the first thing about Dark Basic so... this should be fun :D
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Lorfarius
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Post by Lorfarius » Thu May 24, 2007 3:23 pm

Machine code. I hear about it all the time "Basic was rubbish and too slow so we decided to write the game in machine code". Is this the equivalent of some universal language? Once known anything can be written for? Or did it differ between machines. Was the NES mc different from that of the Spectrum and C64?
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woody.cool
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Post by woody.cool » Thu May 24, 2007 3:25 pm

Machine Code is basically programming the processor directly - so therefore Machine Code is processor dependant - Intel x86 Machine Code is different to Motorola PowerPC Machine Code, whereas Intel 386 and Intel 486 Machine Code are very similar - they are the same processor architecture.

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MikeHive
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Post by MikeHive » Thu May 24, 2007 4:08 pm

I just looked up DarkBasic, and I have some reservations.

For one, I thought this was just a programming language, not some game-creation tool... the whole point of me learning to program is so I can write my own programs, not so I can pootle around in someone else's software and 'pretend' I'm a programmer.

For two, I'm more into doing retro-style 2D games than 3D stuff, which seems to be DarkBasic's speciality.

For three, it's by the same company that made The 3D Gamemaker. I bought that in a fit of optimism many years ago, and it is quite clearly complete sh!t. Every few years I dig it out of a drawer wondering if I missed something, only to be reminded that I really didn't - trying to make a game with The 3D Gamemaker is like trying to cook your dinner with a hairdryer.

Maybe I should get back to the C++?
~Mike
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MikeHaggar
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Post by MikeHaggar » Thu May 24, 2007 4:20 pm

Maybe you could try out XNA?

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MikeHive
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Post by MikeHive » Thu May 24, 2007 4:24 pm

I just went to Wikipedia and looked it up, and now I have even less idea precisely what XNA is than I did to start with. :lol:
~Mike
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quangdx
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Post by quangdx » Thu May 24, 2007 4:44 pm

currently i'm using PPL, pocket programming language.
http://www.arianesoft.ca/
it's primarily used to write software for the Pocket PC,
but does allow you to write also for windows,
you can even reuse the same code for both formats.
I worte a very simple Simon clone in one morning with it,
http://www.asobitech.com/asobisimon.html
and i'm currently writing what may well be my best game ever.
which will be released on Pocket PC as well as windows.

there's also Blitz BASIC, which comes in various versions 2D and 3D.
i've heard good things about that, although i've never tried it.
http://aso.bi
the science of play

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Lorfarius
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Post by Lorfarius » Thu May 24, 2007 5:56 pm

quangdx wrote: there's also Blitz BASIC, which comes in various versions 2D and 3D.
i've heard good things about that, although i've never tried it.
I know a fella who programs Blitz basic, mostly recreational games for fun. He swears by it and reckons its perfect for making retro games.
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MikeHive
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Post by MikeHive » Thu May 24, 2007 7:24 pm

I'll look into it. :D
~Mike
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TMR
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Post by TMR » Thu May 24, 2007 7:51 pm

Lorfarius wrote:Machine code. I hear about it all the time "Basic was rubbish and too slow so we decided to write the game in machine code". Is this the equivalent of some universal language?
Programs written in BASIC have to be interpreted into machine code and that job always takes time, which is why most flavours of BASIC are fairly sluggish; machine code is basically just a string of numbers, for example 169, 0, 141, 32, 208 looks like nothing in particular but to a C64 that says "turn the border colour black".
Lorfarius wrote:Once known anything can be written for? Or did it differ between machines. Was the NES mc different from that of the Spectrum and C64?
Machine code is basically the native language of the processor at the heart of any computer or console, but that means that it's different for machines with different CPUs. But there are only a finite number of CPUs at the heart of these machines and the C64, NES, C16 VIC 20, Atari 8-bit and others use variations of the MOS Technologies 6502 whilst the Spectrum, CPC, MSX, SMS and others are based on the Zilog Z80a.

Knowing one doesn't lead directly into knowing the other but it's possible to learn both if need be and i can quite happily write code for any machine with a 6502 variant; i just need to know what format the output from the assembler needs to be and find a good reference that explains how the memory is laid out and where the video and audio handing live.

MikeHive wrote:I'll look into it. :D
i've played with Blitz 2D quite a bit and it's not at all bad; it does absract you away quite a distance from the hardware (which isn't the way i like to work normally) but it's good at what it does.

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GarryG
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Post by GarryG » Fri May 25, 2007 5:10 am

MikeHive wrote:I just looked up DarkBasic, and I have some reservations.

For one, I thought this was just a programming language, not some game-creation tool... the whole point of me learning to program is so I can write my own programs, not so I can pootle around in someone else's software and 'pretend' I'm a programmer.
I think you’ve got the wrong end of the stick about Dark Basic. It isn’t a games creation kit, by any stretch of the imagination!

I’m currently writing .net applications using VB.net and ASPX.net; these are all systems written by someone else to allow me to produce the software my employer wants.
So, by the same token you would be saying that I’m ‘just playing at being an applications programmer’ because I’m using a language system that was specifically designed for the task!?!?!?


Dark Basic (like Blits BASIC) is a variation on the BASIC language with a hefty amount of game specific routines built in. Yes, a lot of those routines are aimed at producing 3D graphics, but I can’t see where you got the idea that it was a ‘games creation utility’. It is a programming language created with a view to being used to create games, but this is hardly the same thing!? Dark Basic code can be compiled and used in any PC just like compiled C code, or any other compiled code!!
MikeHive wrote:For two, I'm more into doing retro-style 2D games than 3D stuff, which seems to be DarkBasic's speciality.
What have you been reading!?
DB is widely regarded as one of the best platforms for making retro type games in by the home brew comunity. I've seen people rave about this. Like other things I'v also seen it po-po'd in favor of other languages. But I've never seen it described as as 'games creation utility'!

I’d be interested to know what made you think this is a games creation kit?


On a different note...
When people say they program in machine code, what they (generally) mean is that they program in Assembly language. This is a way of making the raw MC numbers a bit more manageable. You would have to know your intended platform pretty well at at the hardware level to program in machine code (Assembly). You should be aware that simple things like printing characters to the screen can take much more code than in any other language, simply because you are telling the machine how to do things at a very low level, so everything has to be SPELT OUT to the computer. It makes it more fiddly than other languages, but also more powerful!

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smila
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Post by smila » Fri May 25, 2007 6:28 am

ive done commercial and remakes for a looong time.

there's a list of most of the stuff ive done here -

http://www.greatgamesexperiment.com/user/smila
**********************
god created the sid chip so hubbard could make music

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GarryG
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Post by GarryG » Fri May 25, 2007 7:43 am

By the way, if you’re looking for an 'old flavoured' BASIC for your PC, you could probably do worse than this -> http://www.bbcbasic.co.uk/bbcwin/bbcwin.html

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kaiserpc
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Post by kaiserpc » Fri May 25, 2007 7:57 am

vb.net can be used with the directx libaries, just as C++ can. Okay the compiled code may be a bit slower. But you can certainly write an 8-bit remake no problem with it.

You can even just use the standard GDI+ for most simple games. I've written 2 strategy games using vb.net and GDI+ and they play fine on a bog standard PC.
c64 > spectrum 48k

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