Amiga vs ST

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Which was better?

Amiga
36
80%
ST
8
18%
Other
1
2%
 
Total votes: 45

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outdated_gamer
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Re: Amiga vs ST

Post by outdated_gamer » Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:15 pm

joefish wrote:The Amiga was the better machine for arcade style games, but the ST was better value for money and better for productivity - at least for the first 3 or 4 years. And it had a slight speed advantage in solid 3D games too.
I'm thinking along those lines too, in terms of gaming the Amiga pulled ahead with it's better graphics and sound (although there are cases of ST games that either rivaled or looked slightly better than the Amiga version), the Amiga was certainly more popular among developers. But the ST certainly wasn't bad, it had it's advantages as you mention and the upgraded models (STE, TT, Falcon) increased it's capabilties. What I like about both of them is that, being computers, they had the type of games the consoles either didn't have or did not do well which made their libraries more diverse in comparison to the consoles which were only excelling in Arcade-style games. But on the Amiga and ST you had adventure games, strategies, simulators, builders, sandboxes, etc. The better capabilities ment that devs could be more creative as on the 8-bit platforms. Being used to Windows (only ever used DOS for running old games and programs really), the AmigaOS and Atari TOS are interesting, even though I wouldn't necessarily use them these days (a very good vid about it can be seen here ). Putting things into context, both machines were very good home computers for it's time for both, productivity and gaming, which couldn't be exactly said for the IBM PC or the Apple Mac, both being more business-oriented machines. It's too bad that both, Commodore and Atari pulled out though, I find some of the last models they made such as the A4000 and Falcon really didn't come to full expression and left a lot of "what if" questions. Luckily, we have the homebrew/demo scenes that continue making amazing things for them, like for example these two eye-popping Half-Life and Quake 3 ports for the Falcon (1992 hardware, folks!).

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outdated_gamer
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Re: Amiga vs ST

Post by outdated_gamer » Tue Apr 12, 2016 8:17 pm

PostieDoc wrote:Does anyone else keep getting the forum is temporarily unavailable messages?
Indeed, and it's really annoying. Not only one can't post sometimes, one can't view the board either.

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paranoid marvin
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Re: Amiga vs ST

Post by paranoid marvin » Wed Apr 13, 2016 3:26 pm

What made me switch from the ST to Amiga was Cinemaware's Rocket Ranger. The Amiga version had lots of extra features including a 'take off' mini-game and speech. Not sure why this was missed as surely the ST could do this?

Also games started to become Amiga only - including Wings and ICFTD. Cinemaware had always supported the ST, not sure if these games weren't released because the machine wasn't capable, or because they didn't think they would sell well enough?

Anyway, before long there was no point having an ST because games stopped being released for it, or were substantially inferior.
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adippm82
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Re: Amiga vs ST

Post by adippm82 » Thu Apr 14, 2016 8:44 am

I have to go with the ST here, even though I know it was not as good a machine, I loved the look of it, and it was a great games machine for the few years that it was well supported, even when all my mates, and I mean all of them had Amigas or Megadrives, I stuck with the old ST, and in fact only recently removed it from the TV it had been permanently attached to.

I seem to remember a big factor in the ST not getting much support in its later years was down to Atari being far too generous with pack in software, it really turned the publishers against the machine, I remember I got some super pack with mine that had Arkanoid II - Revenge of Doh, Beyond the Ice Palace, Black Lamp, Buggy Boy, Chopper X, Eddie Edwards Super Ski, Ikari Warriors, Marble Madness, Organiser, Quadralien, Ranarama, Return to Genesis, Road Wars, Seconds Out, Starquake, Summer Olympiad, Test Drive, Thrust, Thundercats, Wizball, Xenon, and Zynaps.

Some really decent titles with that, and I know I did not buy any games for ages afterwards, if everyone else was the same it is little wonder ST games stopped selling in large numbers, after software dried up for mine, I did not go the Amiga route, got a Super Nintendo at launch, and then went for a few years onto PC gaming.

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The Laird
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Re: Amiga vs ST

Post by The Laird » Thu Apr 14, 2016 9:25 am

adippm82 wrote: I seem to remember a big factor in the ST not getting much support in its later years was down to Atari being far too generous with pack in software, it really turned the publishers against the machine, I remember I got some super pack with mine that had Arkanoid II - Revenge of Doh, Beyond the Ice Palace, Black Lamp, Buggy Boy, Chopper X, Eddie Edwards Super Ski, Ikari Warriors, Marble Madness, Organiser, Quadralien, Ranarama, Return to Genesis, Road Wars, Seconds Out, Starquake, Summer Olympiad, Test Drive, Thrust, Thundercats, Wizball, Xenon, and Zynaps.
Yep, Darryl Still (who came up with the Power Pack idea) talked about this in one of the interviews I did with him in the mag.

sidney
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Re: Amiga vs ST

Post by sidney » Thu Apr 14, 2016 1:49 pm

I always wanted an Amiga but in those far flung years I went for the ST for cost reasons, I did enjoy it but still pined for the Amiga, in the end I sold the ST and bought an Amiga with some extra hard earned bucks and I have loved it ever since, as a cash strapped youth back then you generally had to sell a system to buy another. In this day and age I would have kept the ST and bought an Amiga, back then it was a luxury I couldn't afford! I have often toyed with the idea of picking up an ST for the collection but as yet haven't. I have enjoyed a few of its games via emulation but for 16bit computer gaming the Amiga hits the spot.

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Re: Amiga vs ST

Post by paranoid marvin » Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:23 pm

sidney wrote:I always wanted an Amiga but in those far flung years I went for the ST for cost reasons, I did enjoy it but still pined for the Amiga, in the end I sold the ST and bought an Amiga with some extra hard earned bucks and I have loved it ever since, as a cash strapped youth back then you generally had to sell a system to buy another. In this day and age I would have kept the ST and bought an Amiga, back then it was a luxury I couldn't afford! I have often toyed with the idea of picking up an ST for the collection but as yet haven't. I have enjoyed a few of its games via emulation but for 16bit computer gaming the Amiga hits the spot.

Same here. I suspect this would be the case for many.
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English Invader
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Re: Amiga vs ST

Post by English Invader » Thu Apr 14, 2016 2:53 pm

I grew up with the ST and, while I didn't exactly "pine" for an Amiga, I was always curious about the idea of console standard graphics and sound on a computer. I didn't get to use one until 2009 and I ended up disappointed because I went in expecting the full Mega Drive experience and got endless disk swapping, awkward and counter-intuitive game controls and bombastic music/sound effects. I have grown to like the Amiga but I'll always prefer the more mid/late 80s-centric ST.

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Katzkatz
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Re: Amiga vs ST

Post by Katzkatz » Fri Apr 15, 2016 9:34 pm

Amiga. Because I owned one. :lol: That said - I did actually look at the ST first, what with the "Power Pack" when it came out - and that did sort of get the idea of moving into 16 bits for me. That, and seeing Gauntlet 2 on an ST.

I probably get hounded off the forum for this - but there's not much between a a standard Amiga and ST, on technical specifications. Sure, an Amiga can probably do sprites and scrolling a little bit better than an ST - but 3D games are slighter better on an ST. An Amiga floppy can hold 880 Kb, an ST 720 Kb. The Amiga had a sound chip that could do samples, but some people do prefer the chip generated stuff off of the YM chip, and the ST did have in-built MIDI - which is why it was a favourite of musicians. ST is clocked at 8 Mhz, Amiga at 7.14 Mhz(something to do with video timing, and why it got used for genlocks and video production). It's swings and roundabouts.

Falcon on the other hand - that p*sses over something like an A1200. 68030 compared to a 68020 - I think Commodore got some flack for using that processor, and the Macs had moved on to '030 and the '040 had just come out. The soundchip on the Falcon has 8 channels and a DSP(4 channels on the Amiga, 8 channels on an Archimedes and the Macs at the time had started getting a DSP with their soundchip). The AGA Amigas got criticised for having the old Paula chip in them.

I can't say I've used GEM that much - only really used on my old secondary school's music room ST, for a music package. I've always found Workbench quite a good operating system - in that it's logical(i.e. the c directory is for commands, the lib is for libraries, etc.). It always seemed quite well thought out, with the startup drawer, etc. Compared to the complicated beasts of Windows and Mac Os - mind you, computers are a lot more complicated nowadays - and are expected to do more.

I suppose what is surprising about both the ST and Amiga, is that they didn't have more success in the USA. After all, Atari and Commodore were both American companies, and had quite good success with their previous products(Atari with their games consoles and their 8 bit computers, Commodore with the Pet and the C64). Plus, Motorola was an American company as well. A marketing problem? I get the impression that people wanted a games console in the USA, and if they wanted a computer they would get a DOS PC. Sure, they got some exposure(Lucasfilm did games for them, so did Cinemaware) - but I don't think it was as much as other parts of the world.


PS - What is the "Other" in the list?

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outdated_gamer
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Re: Amiga vs ST

Post by outdated_gamer » Fri Apr 15, 2016 9:40 pm

English Invader wrote:I grew up with the ST and, while I didn't exactly "pine" for an Amiga, I was always curious about the idea of console standard graphics and sound on a computer. I didn't get to use one until 2009 and I ended up disappointed because I went in expecting the full Mega Drive experience and got endless disk swapping, awkward and counter-intuitive game controls and bombastic music/sound effects. I have grown to like the Amiga but I'll always prefer the more mid/late 80s-centric ST.
You have to put things into context. The Amiga and ST originally launched in 1985 and back then no game console could touch them, in terms of capabilities and functionality. Just a quick comparison of Defender of the Crown on Amiga vs NES shows the massive gap between the two and you also had proper 3D games way before the likes of Star Fox and Virtua Racing were a thing. Of course the Mega Drive and SNES were better for Arcade games, but they also released years later so this is not exactly a good comparison. And still they lacked the kind of diversity a home computer would provide, with it's more in-depth genres like strategy, adventure and simulation games.

Ontopic: well the Amiga is totally dominating the poll so I think the question has most certainly been answered. Still, I believe that the ST and it's more capable cousins had their own qualities and of course people who had one will likely have good memories about it (if they weren't too envious of the Amiga... :P ).

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sscott
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Re: Amiga vs ST

Post by sscott » Sat Apr 16, 2016 8:25 am

Got an ST in 1989 and loved it to bits. Got an Amigs 500 2 years later and loved that too. However my heart belongs to the ST so I voted for that.
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